Anaindabuilding

Dressed to impress

danceacrossmymemory:

snakebitcat:

danceacrossmymemory:

snakebitcat:

danceacrossmymemory:

snakebitcat:

danceacrossmymemory:

lupinatic:

snakebitcat:

horsechestnut:

snakebitcat:

horsechestnut:

snakebitcat:

sumthing-peculiar:

snakebitcat:

moonlightfairy:

snakebitcat:

feministmagelet:

harrypotterconfessions:

I never liked Snape and I don’t think I ever will. I just don’t understand how someone can excuse the actions of an abusive teacher who takes out past grudges on the child of the woman he supposedly loved.

Thank you. He was abusive to Lily from the start and he abused innocent children (e.g Hermione).

James was more abusive to Lily than Snape ever was.

Uhh… how? There’s no evidence of James ever abusing Lily? Like please explain how in *canon* where he was abusive to Lily, because I am totally lost as to HOW you think James was more abusive to Lily, since James never called her a slur or got her killed. 

In canon, James tried to blackmail Lily into dating him by saying he would only stop levitating a helpless Snape and stripping him naked in public in order to sexually humiliate Snape if Lily would agree to go out with James. That’s a hell of a lot more abusive than Snape lashing out at Lily immediately after James was done abusing him, especially since unlike James, Snape took no for an answer when Lily said that Snape calling her a mudblood was unforgivable.

James’ actions on that day were absolutely despicable; 15 year old was every bit as arrogant, spoiled, and hurtful as Malfoy was (sans the pure blood prejudice). But there is the important note you’re overlooking: JAMES GREW THE FUCK OUT OF IT!!! Even bullies can realize they were wrong. Do you honestly think that Lily would have gotten together with him otherwise?

There’s also the fact that James and Snape’s conflict was very much two-way from day 1. This is obvious from when they meet on the train. As such, I think it’s safe to say that Snape, who loved practicing Dark magic, did things just as awful to James and the Marauders. (Do I think Snape deserved that incident by the lake? Absolutely the fuck not, no one does. But Snape was outright nasty and had future death eaters as friends, so you know that the tables were more than likely turned at some point.)

I’d also like to point out that in another post you accused OP of ignoring Snape’s good deeds to focus on his bad ones. You are literally doing the same thing here with James in classic “your fav is problematic style” despite the fact that we know James a) saved Snape from werewolf Remus and b) grew up to be a man who sacrificed his life for his family.

Day 1 started out with James being the one who started the conflict. And given that the Marauders outnumbered him 4/1 it’s hardly surprising that he would end up resorting to desperate measures to try to stop them from being able to bully, abuse, assault, and try to murder him - all of which we have canonical proof of them doing in a way that does not exist with the turned tables you argue must have happened in your “he didn’t deserve that, but” argument.

And the OP did ignore Snape’s good deeds, because they didn’t mention anything about him that they couldn’t spin in the most negative way possible.

i love a good discussion.

They didn’t ignore his good deeds, there just wasn’t a need to mention them. The whole point was that no matter what a person does they can’t ignore the fact that he was an abusive teacher, and I tend to agree. James shouldn’t have to play any part in this entire debate, he’s irrelevant. The post is strictly discussing Snape in his teaching career, long after James is dead. I don’t care what happened to a guy when he was a kid, nothing gives a teacher the right to treat his students the way Snape did. This is the guy who forced Neville to test a deadly poison on his toad and then punished him when Trevor didn’t die. When Hermione was hit by a spell that made her teeth grow so they looked like a beavers, looked at her and while she was already crying stated he didn’t see a difference and didn’t punish the boy who did it. What happened in his past doesn’t matter. NOTHING makes it acceptable for a teacher to act like that.

When the poster who said Snape “was abusive to Lily from the start”, James being more abusive became totally relevant.

No he didn’t- I’m sorry but James is irrelevant. Snape was abusive and a bad person for Lily to be around before they even meet James. He helped widen the gaps between her and Petunia, literally encouraging Lily not to hang out with her sister. Now granted Petunia was a jerk to her sister, I honestly think they would have made up if not for Snape. He looked at her whole family with disgust as they were muggles, making a tree branch fall on Petunia and then stating it doesn’t matter if she gets hurt as she’s only a muggle. 

If you want to talk about the gap between Lily and Petunia, then the fact that James did more to widen that than Snape did is also relevant. Rowling said that the way James treated Vernon when they met was what turned the gap into a rift.

Here’s what Rowling said: “"When, in due course, Vernon Dursley proposed marriage, very correctly, on one knee in his mother’s sitting room, Petunia accepted at once. The one fly in her delicious ointment was the fear of what her new fiancé would make of her sister, who was now in her final year at Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry. Vernon was apt to despise even people who wore brown shoes with black suits; what he would make of a young woman who spent most of her time wearing long robes and casting spells, Petunia could hardly bear to think.”

“She confessed the truth during a tear-stained date, in Vernon’s dark car as they sat overlooking the chip shop where Vernon had just bought them a post-cinema snack. Vernon, as Petunia had expected, was deeply shocked; however, he told Petunia solemnly that he would never hold it against her that she had a freak for a sister, and Petunia threw herself upon him in such violent gratitude that he dropped his battered sausage.”

“The first meeting between Lily, her boyfriend James Potter, and the engaged couple, went badly, and the relationship nose-dived from there. James was amused by Vernon, and made the mistake of showing it. Vernon tried to patronise James, asking what car he drove. James described his racing broom. Vernon supposed out loud that wizards had to live on unemployment benefit. James explained about Gringotts, and the fortune his parents had saved there, in solid gold. Vernon could not tell whether he was being made fun of or not, and grew angry. The evening ended with Vernon and Petunia storming out of the restaurant, while Lily burst into tears and James (a little ashamed of himself) promised to make things up with Vernon at the earliest opportunity.”

“This never happened. Petunia did not want Lily as a bridesmaid, because she was tired of being overshadowed; Lily was hurt. Vernon refused to speak to James at the reception, but described him, within James’ earshot, as ‘some kind of amateur magician’.“

James’ worst crime here was not pandering to Vernon’s superiority complex and answering his patronizing questions honestly. Vernon feeling like James was making fun of him doesn’t mean he was - James did have a lot of gold in Gringotts, we know that because we actually see it through Harry’s eyes, and as a Quidditch fan it’s highly likely that he did have a racing broom. He even tries to explain the wizarding world’s banking system, which would normally be a topic of interest to a businessman, which Vernon is. And James can hardly make up with Vernon if Vernon refuses to talk to him.

Granted James could have been more tactful and not ‘made the mistake of showing’ that he found Vernon funny, but really this particular rift does seem like it’s more on Vernon and Petunia for getting angry that James didn’t fulfill the stereotype Vernon wanted to assign to him as welfare-dependent and financially less successful than Vernon. It’s highly typical for the Vernons and Petunias of the world to feel threatened and decide they’re being mocked when people don’t fit their preconceptions.

Using the unsuccessful first meeting between the two couples as an indicator of James being abusive to Lily doesn’t add up. If he’d hexed Vernon or pranked him or done anything to deliberately widen the rift that already existed before James ever even arrived at the restaurant, that would have definitely been abusive to Lily, but that’s not what happened. There are a lot of things to legitimately criticize James for, but Vernon being a judgemental man by nature who got angry and decided that he was being made fun of when James punctured his stereotypes of wizards isn’t one of them.

What really kills me about Snape apologists is that they will lambast a teenage boy for bullying another teenage boy, but they will absolutely bend over backwards to make excuses for a grown fucking man bullying children. Not just any children, but the children under his care who were trusting him to teach them and instead were met with vile and undeserved vitriol and disdain.

Like, no matter how you spin it–James Potter was a bullying shithead as a kid. Severus Snape was a bully as an adult. James grew out of being a bully and into the sort of man Lily could love, who gave his life to give his wife and child an extra few seconds to escape. Snape? He grew into being a bully who delighted in tormenting children who couldn’t defend themselves or else he’d punish them.

There’s no fucking contest.

Snape grew into Dumbledore’s most loyal soldier and Voldemort’s final defeat would have been impossible without what he did. And pointing out that James spent his entire seven years at Hogwarts bullying and abusing more than just one boy, as long as you want to talk about people bending over backwards to make excuses the way you were making excuses for James.

First of all, there’s no evidence that James bullied anyone but Snape because his hatred of Snape was a very unique and intense occurrence and it was also a two-way street, Snape hated him just as much and, per the books, never lost a chance to hex James either. Plus the fact that Snape invented the spell in SWM in the first place. Two of them, actually, but the one that hoisted him up in the air? His own invention, which means in order for literally anyone else to have learned it, he had to have used it on them first. (Which doesn’t excuse James using it on him, but it’s really funny how Snape apologists never think to bring that up!)

He also invented sectumsempra, which literally has no other purpose than the permanently maim and even kill. Three inches to the right, and he could have slit James’ throat in that memory.

But all of that is completely beside the point, because none of that makes up for the fact that, to his dying day, Severus Snape was a bully, and he didn’t even have the fucking decency to bully people his own age. He bullied children. I don’t care that he was Dumbledore’s most loyal soldier or what role he played in Voldemort’s downfall (though I feel compelled to remind you that if it hadn’t been for him, James and Lily Potter would have lived to raise their son). That doesn’t in the least mitigate the way he treated his students.

He was an abusive asshole as an adult. James grew out of it; Snape grew into it, and never fucking stopped. That’s the bottom line.

(PS I’m not the one trying to argue that James being a bullying fuckwaffle as a teenager was justified. You’re the one trying to say that the way Snape acted as an adult was ok because he was ‘loyal’ to Dumbledore and died in the end. Big difference.)

First of all, there _is_ evidence of James bullying other students, which Harry himself discovered in Half-Blood Prince when he had to go through the disciplinary records during detention:

“James Potter and Sirius Black. Apprehended using an illegal hex upon Bertram Aubrey. Aubrey’s head twice normal size. Double detention.”

So second of all, since you are still bending over backwards to make excuses for James after complaining about people doing what you yourself are doing, please refer back to what is canonically proven to have happened first of all.

That’s like saying Harry bullied Goyle for hexing him when his spell rebounded off Draco’s and got him sent to the hospital wing. Getting in fights isn’t bullying, and there’s nothing there that even mentions who threw the first punch, so to speak. James and Sirius were pranksters, much like Fred and George–or are you going to say they bullied Neville by feeding him a Canary Cream that turned him into a literal canary?

But like I said–James Potter was an arrogant shithead during his school years. He grew the fuck out of it. James Potter, the adult, never bullied or tormented the children under his care. Snape did. I’ve made no excuses for James–he was awful and the way he treated Snape was horrible, though by all accounts Snape gave as good as he got and neither of them were innocent during the rivalry. But I’m also not willing to let people ignore canon to act like things happened that didn’t (your whole ‘but James made the rift between Lily and Petunia worse!’ thing, which is total crap) in order to villify James while trying to lift Snape on some sort of pedestal.

Canonically, James was a bully as a teenager, and he bullied other teenagers. Canonically, Snape was a bully as an adult, and he bullied the children under his care. Like I said, there is no fucking contest.

I was not ignoring canon, because James canonically did more to make things between Lily and Petunia worse than Snape did. And what I quoted was just one of many detentions James and Sirius were given, as long as you want to complain about people other than yourself supposedly being the ones ignoring canon here.

And arguing that Snape gave as good as he got when James was the one who gave first, and we have no canonical examples of Snape doing anything nearly as bad to James as what James did to Snape by the lake, bloody well is making excuses for James. Especially since James was the one who started things between them in the first place, and Sirius’ attempts at self-justification didn’t hold up to Harry calling him out for what he had done.

So put that in your pipe, and add your gifs to it while you’re at it.

Yes, you are. You are actually, factually ignoring canon. Did you even read lupinatic’s post, or are you steadfastly ignoring it to keep pulling things out of your ass in lieu of actually reading the books? James’ only crime was not kowtowing to Vernon Dursley. Vernon Dursley was the one who contributed to the rift between Lily and Petunia, not James. By that point, the rift was already there, and the fact that Petunia married a bigoted asshole was the straw that broke the camel’s back. Snape was the one who tried to convince Lily that she was better off without her sister, that her sister was ‘just a muggle’ and wasn’t worth worrying about. Snape did more to contribute to the rift than James, and that’s just a fact.

The only reason we don’t see an example of what Snape did was because it was Snape’s memories that we saw. We only got one side of the story. The closest we could get to James’ side was what Sirius and Remus said, and neither of them liked or approved of what they’d done as kids, but they still made it a point to tell Harry as much as they could–of what James did wrong, but also of the fact that Snape never lost a chance to hex him, either. And considering the fact that the first thing Snape did when they got his attention in SWM was to go for his wand (and then, later, come dreadfully close to slitting James’ throat, but I guess that doesn’t matter to you because Snape was a saint who could do no wrong) I find it hard to believe that he was never the instigator. (You also seem to have ridden right past the fact that the only way for anyone in that school to know about levicorpus was if Snape used it first, because he invented it, and James is the most likely target.)

But, like has been said a million fucking times, what James did to Snape is completely fucking irrelevant to how horrible of a person Snape was as an adult when he BULLIED CHILDREN FOR FUN BECAUSE HE ENJOYED IT. Nothing James did to him can even compare with what he did to Neville on multiple occasions, and to Hermione and Harry–for the crime of being smart and muggleborn (in Hermione’s case) and for looking like a dead man he hated (in Harry’s case). Because he was the adult. He should have treated his students with care and compassion and actually given a shit about teaching them. But he didn’t because he was an abusive, bullying asshole.

That is the bottom line.

A conversation I may or may ot have had with a certain someone…

Cat:  Hey Parry Hotterman–how would you like to see a giant, erect clitoris this morning?

Me:  First thing when I wake up?  Sure, Cat! 

Cat:  *shows me this post*

Me:  …That’s…that is a giant, erect clitoris…and a massive lake of lubricant to go with it.

“First of all, there’s no evidence that James bullied anyone but Snape” Lily and Lupin both said that James bullied people other than Snape.  It’s right here: “Messing up your hair because you think it looks cool to look like you’ve just got off your broomstick, showing off with that stupid Snitch, walking down corridors and hexing anyone who annoys you just because you can — I’m surprised your broomstick can get off the ground with that fat head on it. You make me SICK.” (Lily, from SWM) ““How come she married him?” Harry asked miserably. “She hated him!” “Nah, she didn’t,” said Sirius. “She started going out with him in seventh year,” said Lupin. “Once James had deflated his head a bit,” said Sirius. “And stopped hexing people just for the fun of it,” said Lupin. “Even Snape?” said Harry. “Well,” said Lupin slowly, “Snape was a special case….” (One chapter later, in “Career Advice”) And you. “I’ve made no excuses for James–he was awful and the way he treated Snape was horrible…” But you just…you just did.  You just tried to make an excuse that James only bullied Severus and no one else… “Canonically, James was a bully as a teenager, and he bullied other teenagers.” Oh, OKAY, so now he bullied other teenagers. “You are actually, factually ignoring canon. Did you even read lupinatic’s post…” Lupinatic is just as shitty a James Stan/Marauderfen/James Apologist as you are.  “Granted James could have been more tactful and not ‘made the mistake of showing’ that he found Vernon funny, but…”  NO.  NO “BUT”S.  The man-child bully was 17/18.  He was still fucking around by bullying Severus behind Lily’s back in their final year, he was going around with Sirius/screwing with Muggle policemen, and we learn that that happened–clearly James did not “grow up”.  And clearly he had very, very fucking little respect for the International Statute of Wizarding Secrecy if he was going to fuck with Vernon the way that he did: “Vernon could not tell whether he was being made fun of or not, and grew angry.“  He was being played with because James didn’t want to make the effort to behave.  Like everyone else he bullied, including Severus, he zoned in on the target’s weakness–his ignorance–because that stuffy, unknowledgeable, SILLY little ignorant Muggle existed.  Had he really grown up, he wouldn’t have just described his racing broom, he would’ve just plainly said, “I don’t have a car.”  And if there was some understanding in the air between them that James was a wizard/a “freak”, then it could’ve been “I don’t have a car…my kind don’t need cars to get around.”  But no…James had to be a little shit instead.  But now I’m ranting because Lupinatic’s fucking James stanning irritates me. As for the rest of your crap, holy shit.  You’re really pushing the boundaries of fervency for James Apologia and Snape Hate.  The delusions are impressive.

I mean, thanks for proving to me that Snape-fen will refuse to read anything anyone writes if it isn’t absolutely singing Snape’s praises, I guess? Your post is the equivalent of a pile of steaming horse shit so I guess that’s impressive in and of itself. I can practically smell it from here!

James was a bully as a teenager. Whoever he may have bullied (and when I said ‘no clear canonical proof’ I meant exactly that–nothing that was not hearsay [and there’s nothing that says he was as vile to anyone else as he and Snape were to each other, which is what I meant in the first place], because we never got James’ side of the story, and he would probably be the first to admit that he was a right little shit as a teenager, but I’m not going to condemn him for that because he did grow up, regardless of how much you feel like ignoring what’s right in front of your face; Snape-fen are remarkably good at that, so I’m not surprised), he was a teenager bullying other teenagers. Which does not make it ok by any stretch of the imagination, he was an awful little shit, but guess what? He wasn’t bullying defenseless children who were under his care trusting him with their magical education and their wellbeing. That was all your precious Snape.

Lol, what about the International Statute of Secrecy? Are you even reading what you wrote? James talking to Vernon about shit Vernon already knew about (or did you conveniently forget the part where Vernon already knew that Lily and her fiance were magical, Petunia already spilled the beans about that, so James wasn’t ‘risking’ anything) and Vernon was being a bigot and an asshole. James’ only ‘crime’ (if it could even be called that) was effectively standing up for himself. If Vernon didn’t feel like behaving (and he fucking well didn’t, he was the asshole that instigated absolutely everything about that conflict, the text makes that clear), why the fuck should James have? Here was this pompous jerk acting like James had to be some homeless, poor hoodlum because he was a wizard, and all James did was point out that he was wrong. Forgive the fuck outta him for thinking that Vernon’s assumptions were amusing. That was in no way abusive on James’ part, nor did it do anything to widen the rift, which was already catastrophically huge by that point, between Lily and her sister The damage was already done. Period.

chasing visions of our future.