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Thinking about a post that pointed out that Jaime Lannister is generally accepted as a fan favorite despite his wrong-doings which is an interesting point but also-
In-universe he's very much the Discourse Generator 9000. Like every other character has something to say about his kingslaying or oathbreaking (or sister-fucking if you're in the know)! Ned's internal dialogue is like "he SLEW the KING (that we were gonna kill anyway) and then he SAT his ass on the THRONE!!!1!"
Brienne doesn’t need to be the object of passionate desire. she’s the woman who teaches Jaime a better way to love. that’s infinitely more meaningful than reducing their relationship to physical attraction. to me, that actually cheapens what makes her unique. she’s not the intoxicating, all-consuming love. she’s the peaceful one. she’s the woman jaime chooses once he grows up. that’s the entire point of his arc.
Man, idk how to tell u this, but they want to fuck. Like, they want to fuck each other’s brain out. They want to bone. They want to have SEX. And then probably cuddle a little cause they are clingy like that but after that they want to have more sweaty steamy very loud sex, you know? Like they want to fuck for real and then some more.
Idk what’s up with this purity take. Stripping physical desire away from Jaime and Brienne doesn't elevate their relationship; it completely sanitizes it. Saying that physical attraction "cheapens" Brienne’s uniqueness feels like a veiled excuse to desexualize her just because she’s ugly. Sorry, she’s ugly and Jaime still wants to fuck her and she wants to fuck him too.
(I’m not even going to enter here on the concept of Brienne serving only as Jaime’s self help book and therapist because again, is she even a character to you or just an accessory to Jaime’s path of self rehabilitation?)
And again I ask: what’s peaceful about their feelings for each other? Like, where this idea that their feelings are “peaceful” (name: boring) came from? Because that’s not on page. Like at all. There’s nothing peaceful about how they make each other feel. They get under each other's skin in a way nobody else can. Their feelings deeply unsettle them precisely because they are so incredibly strong. It is the definition of an intoxicating, all-consuming love, one that completely rewires Jaime's brain and troubles him from the moment he meets her and one that shatters Brienne's pre-conceived notions. It’s a crisis of faith for both of them.
A connection can be spiritually profound, emotionally transformative, and also incredibly horny, which they are you know. Horny. For each other.
A moment for one of my favorite lines of one of my favorite fics, by @chickren who always delivers no matter what:
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“Yet even so, when Jaime was given his first sword, there was none for me. 'What do I get?' I remember asking. We were so much alike, I could never understand why they treated us so differently”
Talking about incest in aSoIaF, I think that Tywin and Joanna are very interesting. I have more questions than answers on this topic, but this is what I know:
On the one hand, it is supported by the text that Tywin loved Joanna, and it's a very romantic idea to think that war criminal, murderer, child abuser Tywin had a soft spot for his wife. It seems that she was his companion and had a lot of influence on him, not fitting the submissive archetype.
In reality, I don't think it works like that. I don't think that you can be a horrible, misogynist, violent, abusive war criminal and then turn around and be the perfect husband to your wife. But this is a common trope in fiction.
On the other hand, even if Tywin loved his twin children, he abused them all the same. And he's perfectly content to sacrifice their freedom and happiness for the ideas of family and the power of the house (he's not unique in that). He forces Cersei into marriage with a violent man that had already illegitimate children without thinking twice. He was going to force adult Cersei away from her children and into another marriage. And Cersei doesn't even try to really fight it (that we know). He's definitely not too nice to Jaime and doesn't accept his life choices even if he's less violent towards him.
This attitude towards consent is reflected in the relationship between J&C.
I would really like to see Joanna's side of the story. Because what kind of person falls in love with Tywin? When they got married he had already committed the slaughter of the Reynes. What did she think about that?
Also I think that people can have a skewed impression of Tywin because of what he claims/what other people claim and because of GoT. We all know that he has been made cooler and nicer in the tv series.
In the World of Ice and Fire:
Grand Maester Pycelle insists the tales that Joanna used to be Aerys' mistress are baseless, as Tywin would not have married Joanna if they were true, "for he was ever a proud man and not one accustomed to feasting on another man's leavings."
We know this is false because he has sex with Tyrion's lover in canon. A lot of his character is contradicted in that last scene. His whole uprightness is hypocritical and contradictory with the actions we see.
This is what Oberyn Martell says on Tywin and Joanna:
"Tywin ruled the Seven Kingdoms, but was ruled at home by his lady wife, or so my mother always said."
If we try to claim that Tywin and Joanna were a happy and healthy couple because Tywin really loved Joanna, and she had power over him, we should compare them to their children. Cercei and Jaime loved each other, they cared for each other, she had significant psychological power over him, and if one were to die, the other would probably commit suicide immediately (maybe less true in the end of Dance), and yet they are horrible to each other.
It's very interesting to me that briefly after Oberyn's observation, Tyrion thinks this:
It all goes back and back, Tyrion thought, to our mothers and fathers and theirs before them. We are puppets dancing on the strings of those who came before us, and one day our own children will take up our strings and dance on in our steads.
Makes me think that the relationship between Jaime and Cersei reflects the relationship between their parents.
This is my textual analysis. Let's move to the author's intent. Why are Tywin and Joanna cousins?
Is is to tell something about Tywin's opinion on his house? He likes it that much that he decided to marry inside of it?
Is it just because George think it's normal in that world to marry inside your family?
Is it to show that tywin is hypocritical in marrying for love but forcing cersei and tyrion into marrying?
Is it because he wanted tywin to have less political alliances in the world?
Is it because he wanted to show that incest "runs in the family"? Did he want to show that the reason why J&C are like that is because they've never known anything different?
Is it to signify that Tywin is a bad person?
Is it to justify the fact that tyrion is a dwarf? Because he's a child of incest?
Is it to justify that J&C look so much alike even though they're eterozygote twins?
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Random fun fact: I was counting, and I realized that Jaime Lannister is the character who appears most frequently in other characters' POV chapters (actually appearing, not just being mentioned, i don't count visions either), followed by Cersei. However, Jaime and Cersei weren't POV characters at the beginning. On the other hand, Tyrion is the only character who, starting from the first book, appears in five different POV storylines. Then follow Arya and Sansa.
not seeing enough noise about jaime wanting to join the nights watch out of guilt. you’re telling me a jaime, jeor, benjen and jon team up on the wall was on the cards.
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jaime wanting to join the nights watch out of guilt following the murders of elia and her children but cersei convincing him to join robert’s kingsguard instead / it was that white cloak that soiled me, not the other way around.
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