Beauty, Peace, Harmony

Yes that post was scatterbrained and redundant...I'm not afraid to admit that. I have some few additions as well:

My goal wasn't to ignore or erase or call false all the very agreeable things that ZKs have been saying for years and in more recent times like "it's better that zutara isn't canon" or "the antis would get more reason to attack us and the actors".

But...MY very point is that the awful behavior of the antis would not be our fault. That's it. They are not to be coddled or babied. I'm not saying that any zutara shipper's point is wrong, specificlly when it comes to natala zutara being canon.

I kinda wanna talk about Gabriel Llanas - one of the co-executive producers and writers of NATLA

In this tiktok (it's not his account, it's screenshots of some of his comments), it's evident that not only does he respect and acknowledge zutara but he is also quite enthusiastic about zutara.

THAT TYPE OF ENERGY FROM SOMEONE IN PRODUCTION MATTERS. He respects bot KA and zutara and I find that to be important. I'm not a KA shipper but I'm not at all expecting Llanas to trash talk a ship. It's professional and polite. He replies to fans in a way that doesn't sound like he's being too reserved (if you ask me, being too reserved can be very discouraging). He sounds enthusiastic as he gets into it as well.

There are times when people from production (and I'm talking about other media) who tend to make fans feel like "fools" for even asking about what they love about that media.

This really opened a door for me about something I have been holding on talking about and it's about...

It's alright to want natla zutara to be acknowledged.

I think it actually helps to foster a more healthy community. I'm not saying that a fandom needs constant reassurance or validation but the occasional enthusiasm from someone in production without shaming anyone HELPS FANS TO BE SEEN AND HEARD AND THAT MATTERS!!!

It's nice to receive something genuine and insightful rather than dismissive and mean (or evil and disgusting). We should value that. I know it's inevitable for anyone to say "well the atla fandom is shit" "the fandom hates zutara"...I am very aware of that but I'm making this post not to say that any of these points are invalid...I'm just simply pointing out that it's also important for fans to feel seen and heard.

"they're just gonna play in your face" I'm so tired of this, when did I ever say that this is a guarantee of natla zutara to be canon? This is about appreciation and respect. It's not an open petition for us to get our way.

That's why I hate it when some ZK fans are so quick to shut down discussions. I get that a lot of topics are extremely exhausted over the years but we are a fandom. New fans want to know. Older fans want to remember.

When Zuko joins the gaang Katara constantly antagonizes him and he never tries to pick a fight with her over it.

He confronts her at the beginning of the southern raiders, presumably at the end of his rope after weeks of one-sided (and deserved imo) animosity, and for the rest of the episode is nothing but caring and respectful to her.

He goes OUT OF HIS WAY to sit next to her in ember island players (he practically hip checks Aang out of his seat lmao) and she teases him the same friendly way we’ve seen her tease other members of the gaang. They’re friends, full stop.

Even though Katara yells at him for attacking Aang for seemingly no reason at the beginning of the phoenix king, she’s also the one to invite him into the group hug.

He is quite literally a subversion of the bad boy archetype. He is a failure to bad boy by design. His whole characterization from the beginning is that he's empathetic and cares about others, was punished for it, and goes out of his way to try to be the kind of man his father wants him to be opposite to his true nature. As long as he tries to be this person that he is not, he will suffer for it and fail until he embraces who he is and rejects the notions his father put into his head.

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Let's go over some of the common traits of the bad boy archetype!

Charisma/Confidence

See Zuko's complete social awkwardness and inability to talk like a normal person. He's literally a sputtering mess; he actually gives me second-hand embarrassment.

Emotional Unavailability/Avoidance

Zuko pretty consistently is empathetic, and especially with Katara is more than comfortable talking about his feelings and pretty personal life issues in an open way. He also is pretty consistent about persistently confronting problems and dealing with them even when it's an uphill battle. He takes issue with Mai being more shut down and avoidant. He doesn't ignore problems or run away from them.

Manipulative

He literally is incapable of being manipulative or deceptive, he's too forthright; times when he does try to lie, he is shown messing it up spectacularly and being incredibly obvious. If he was more manipulative or used any of his circumstances to make excuses for himself, his life would have been so much easier gaining sympathy with and getting into the group. But he takes the hard way through almost everything he does. He is a blunt instrument and takes the most direct path even if there's 100 obstacles in his path.

Mysterious/Unpredictable

LOL Mr. Capture the Avatar Restore My Honor. He's got literally one thing on his mind and spends the entire show realizing that this narrow path he's clinging onto around every turn is not the only one.

Rebellious/Cool

Spends the majority of the show following the path put in front of him. His only true rebellion happens at the end of season 3 where he is arguably at his most "good", and it's him rebelling against the worldview put in front of him by someone evil. This is also when he sheds trying to be someone he's not, and his personality is furthest it's ever been from being like unto a bad boy.

I'll cede that his design might be cool, or his abilities- but competence at anything is cool on its own and does not make an individual's personality cool. He's a loser; he gets styled on so often for yuks. He's a dork. His personality is cringefail. He is cringe and he fails at nearly everything he does. It's great, it's endearing how uncool he is. He practices talking to himself to hype himself up to talk to the group, says "Hello, Zuko here", is like "no that's stupid I gotta say something else", and then goes up to the group and is like, "Hello, Zuko here." PLEASE.

Socially more dominant

My boy sat outside Katara's tent all night like a wet cat because he cared about her feelings so much, spent the rest of that episode making sure things were taken care of for her, and in general kept trying with her pretty patiently while she was consistently raging at him. He took his lumps from her for a long while. Also, the progression of his facial expressions seeing her to when he finds out she's mad at him are literally :D -> :c

Also, he's just constantly being clowned on to the point of utter resignation. He's very often a character you're supposed to point and laugh at.

The whole "fixing him" element, the emotional rollercoaster instability, maladaptive responses to conflict

But Zuko fixed himself. Him coming back and trying to prove himself is all his choice. The appeal of him with Katara is that he balances her out and makes an effort for her all on his own. He knows it's her choice to forgive him and he doesn't expect her to; he acts because he wants to and cares.

He is also shown to be stable and safe; she lets herself be mad at him for all manner of other issues because he's a safe person to be mad at, and he doesn't feed the flame or run away from the problem. In TSR he is the rock to her storm; he is a consistent, stable counterpart fully determined to show up for her no matter what just for her peace. There is no hot and cold to their dynamic. No emotional dysregulation. They actually help each other process their emotions when they talk about their problems. The appeal is that it's healthy and reciprocal (and dare I say cute)!

And for the whole "he corrupts Katara" argument I see against him in TSR all the time, look at his dialogue again. He doesn't once tell her what to do, he just trusts her to make her own decisions... like an autonomous human being... who he respects. He solely backs up the decisions she chooses to make, and makes sure she's taken care of and safe in the meantime. When she makes a decision contrary to what he expected, he goes along with it. He is just there to be there for her. His only motivation is to get Katara closure and justice on a man who otherwise will never see it and leaves it up to her how she wants to go about it. (In this case, justice was letting him live out the rest of his miserable life.) Is it toxic that he let her make her own decisions regarding her trauma and helped her process her emotions about it, or is it toxic that people act like Katara is incapable of making her own decisions and it must be because a man forced and corrupted her?

Katara had no female teenage friends. She was on good terms with Yue but no friendship was developed, she never had a single spoken interaction with Suki or the Kyoshi warriors, Mai, Ty Lee and Azula were on the opposite side of the war and she never met Jin or Song.

For male teenagers; she was friends with Haru but it was only one episode and when they reunited the crew gave him a horrendous goatee and only one interaction with Katara. She had a crush on Jet, he betrayed her, then when he changed, they quickly killed him off.

Zuko was basically Katara's only close and deep teenage friend. Then after the show was over, Bryke tried to keep Zuko away from her as much as possible (The Comics and LOK). It's kinda like being in an abusive relationship where you get isolated from your friends, except Aang isn't the one doing it, Bryke are.

One of the reasons I prefer Zutara, is because I feel Katara gets to act more like a teenager around Zuko than around Aang. Just imagine how it would have played out if Katara went to that party in The Beach episode trying to make friends with other teens, but with Aang as her date.

Something tells me that if Katara was shown bonding and actually enjoying herself with more kids her and Sokka's ages (especially seeing that high-school-aged kids are the only kids she doesn't mother, except Sokka) more frequently, her choice to end up with Aang in the finale would've looked even more contrived and unrealistic than it already did.

Like they see how many girls and women look at Ka/taa/n/g and say "she would not fucking do that" and it breaks their fantasy because it's a bunch of girls the same age as the girls they got rejected by reminding them that they're delusional and that 14 year old girls are not attracted to prepubescent 12 year old boys who force kisses on them?

And every time they have to think about the popularity of Zutara it is another gut punch to their inner 12 year old boy who is still not over their unrequited childhood crush? Like it just keeps reminding them that in no situation would 14 year old Stacy from next door have wanted to date a 12 year old them no matter how mature she realized they had become? And that she'd still be picking Brad the 16 year old emo boy every time? Even if they had superpowers?

Katara is already the closest thing the southern water tribe has to a princess. She’s the chief’s daughter. Second in line to the chiefdom. Firelady is a step up, because you know Zuko wouldn’t hog power. They’re both anti authoritarian and egalitarian so I truly believe they’d share power and serve the underdogs of the world.

In real life, a strategic marriage to Zuko would not only strengthen the new world order with the fire nation and water tribe being allied, it would inherently have the fire nation atone more for its colonialist past by allowing diversity in their noble class. Marrying outside the fire nation, to the last of the southern waterbenders nonetheless, is a fucking poetic ending to Zuko’s arc. Getting real power to change the world is what Katara would want.

Meanwhile, I think the person it would really suck for is Zuko. He'd be living back in the same halls he was abused and mutilated in, surrounded by people trying to use him who don't care about him as a person and duplicitous, scheming nobles (he could choose the people in his circle, but there'd be old money he'd likely have to appease). And there's a reason he had that like, trauma mantra about Azula always lying. He's incredibly sincere; he'd be an easy target for manipulation- and being in power everyone would be trying. It'd be constant work and political game playing, and honest, honorable Zuko would be miserable with it.

Like Katara loves to fight, and Zuko has only ever been fighting his whole life. Boy needs a break.

I honestly think all the endings are fun, where they end up moving to the Fire Nation or the Southern Water Tribe (or like, secret third option where they find another place to start anew or keep traveling around), and the idea of them showing each other around their respective homes is really cute to me.

But I really love the SWT as a cozy end to their stories, because it's nice that Katara gets to go home but more so Zuko gets to have a real home and community and like, a support system for once. I think he'd love it there.

So you're telling me that Mai saved all of them, Zuko saw this happen, definitely knew what the consequences would be, and indeed Azula was going to straight up KILL Mai before Ty Lee paralyzed her, we know this because she got into the pose for summoning lightning, but he seems to not even think about her again until that one part of the final episode where she shows up to the palace for his coronation (how did she get in there?).

"Mai! You're okay! They let you out of prison?" BITCH WHO IS "THEY"???? HE IS THE FUCKING FIRE LORD!!!! HE IS THEY!!!!!!! WHO WROTE THIS??????

I'm supposed to buy that he is in love with her when he didn't seem worried about her a single time after she sacrificed herself for them all and then apparently also didn't think of her when they won the war? Didn't think to say "Hey! My girlfriend Mai, someone needs to find out what happened to her and where she is and report back to me immediately! I need to know if she's okay!" and then immediately have her released? Her uncle had to pull some strings???? Not Zuko, who is the Fire Lord, but her uncle the warden?????? And yeah I know he wasn't crowned yet but that's more of a ceremonial thing, he still had the authority.

And yeah I know Zuko had a lot on his plate but this is the girl he's supposed to be IN LOVE WITH, she should be one of his first concerns if you want people to believe he's in love with her.

I'm supposed to think the girl he literally tried to DIE for is just a friend and he feels nothing for her but the girl he is allegedly IN LOVE WITH he basically just left behind to die. He was willing to die for Katara, but was willing to put his concern for Mai's life and wellbeing aside for the sake of the mission.

Obviously, from a doylist perspective I don't think this is what the writers intended, but from a watsonian one, this is the conclusion we are led to.

He chose Katara's life over the mission, over his own life, but he chose the mission and his own life over Mai's life.

And I'm supposed to think he was in love with Mai and felt nothing for Katara.

Zutara.

For context, I watched the show recently for the first time without knowing anything about it aside from people liking Toph and I guess Katara having haters or something idk. I didn't know there were ship wars and I don't ship usually so I wasn't rooting for anything, sort of just going with wherever the show took me. But with how many parallels they had and some pretty on the nose foreshadowing I assumed from the beginning that Zuko would be redeemed (since he was very obviously trying to be someone he wasn't) and from the necklace scene that him and Katara were going to have some romantic coded connection eventually. And then they had such compelling moments of understanding and being there for each other in important events that contrasted Aang/Katara not understanding each other on that same level and Zutara became like the 2nd relationship I've ever actively cared about in any media.

So when Katara and Aang kissed at the end and I felt super uncomfortable, I just associated it with being disappointed and annoyed at how much they dropped the ball on all the relationships. Going hard on Aang's feelings for her, never showing her side, and then dropping that plot to do all sorts of legwork for Zutara before dropping that plot as well at the last second. I did know a part of it was that I didn't like how the show treated both Katara and Zuko as prizes for their respective pining love interests. It felt like Mai's redemption was only there to justify her 'winning' back Zuko at the end, and that Aang saved the day, so he gets the girl. It felt less about realistic character motivations and more like they need to be mechanically moved into place. But with how viscerally uncomfortable it made me, I figured there was something more to it.

(Disclaimer: I love Aang as a character, he was one of my favorites. I know that he's a kid and he means well. But the way he acted with Katara was mad uncomfy at times and I genuinely hate how the whole plotline went down)

The problem is that the entire show Aang is shown to project his crush onto Katara. One instance I remember was when she was doing chores and was mad at him for not helping prepare, and he said she was just jealous of him getting attention from girls. But we see that this is not the case and she is basically unaware of him as a love interest at all many times later on. And it's like that over and over again. I know because I'm a romance enjoyer and was paying close attention to all these instances and was like, "Oh cute, surely they'll eventually show him grow as a character to be mature enough to meet her at her level, and then show her feelings develop for him in return." But no, for some reason they exacerbate the differences between them as the show goes on. More and more she is there for him, and it is CONSTANTLY framed in a motherly way- they even state in an episode she is like a mother to the group. And more and more he doesn't know how to be there for her, or her emotions are treated by the show as an overreaction or a big joke, or else something that needs to be contained/put aside.

But because we are in Aang's pov whenever romance is brought up between him and Katara, it gets us used to seeing things as he does and attempts to lull us into finding his behavior normal and not considering Katara or her feelings on the matter. Which is what he has been doing the whole show. He's a kid, he just sees romance as gestures and lines. It makes sense but it's something you have to grow out of to understand selfless love. And something the show should have had him grow out of if he was going to end up with her.

Think about it from Katara's perspective. This whole time he has been like a little brother to her and there has been no indication from her that she sees him in any other way. Every example in the show was him projecting because the way she acted was in line with what she was saying but framed purposefully vaguely to justify him interpreting it in this hopeful kid crush way. And because of this he kisses her on the lips without any indication from her that she is okay with that. Even the show knows this is wrong, before they stopped developing the plotline. If you've ever been on the receiving end of something inappropriate like this, you know it is overwhelmingly uncomfortable and humiliating. You end up feeling helpless and just try to avoid the subject and pretend it never happened because it may be seen as an overreaction to something intended as 'innocent'. But in the real world, randomly without warning jump scare headbutt kissing someone is at minimum Super Not Cool. It's not less weird or uncomfortable just because you know the person and know their intentions are good. You ask, or you wait for a sign of reciprocation before doing something like that.

This is the face she made after it happened. It's meant to be uncomfortable at this point. Which is supported by the fact that they utterly do not talk about what happened until the second to last episode. And once they do talk about it, she does what I saw as a realistically complex interpretation of how you'd let someone down easy that you're not into in a way vague enough to leave room for hope because 1) he's about to face the apocalypse, 2) saying "btw I don't love you back" is kind of a morale buster, and 3) he has a tendency to run away at really bad times. This feels like the obvious interpretation if you've ever had to turn someone down when you're backed into a corner like this and trying to avoid upsetting them in a volatile situation. He literally even said the play might have previously put him into the avatar state- what is she gonna do, turn him down bluntly and have the end of the world possibly happen because he can't handle her just wanting to be friends?

And he kisses her randomly AGAIN after she in no uncertain terms said she was not interested (even if just for the time being, it is still a no). Katara of her own autonomy makes it clear it upset her and that she didn't want it. And instead of having him mature from this and resolve what happened between them or literally ANYTHING, they instead REWARD him with her as a romantic partner in the end scene of the show. And regardless of how you interpret it, ending the show with that being their last romantic interaction reinforces this gross idea that women will grow into loving you and just need to be shown their own feelings and when they continuously show they aren't into you at all it just means they're confused. That women are just playing games and to keep pursuing them and not listen to what they say that they actually want. Btw this is well known to be how creeps think to justify harassing and assaulting women. The development of their romantic relationship was essentially:

Aang has feelings -> Aang randomly kisses Katara and she's visibly uncomfortable -> Aang randomly kisses Katara again and she's visibly and verbally upset -> Aang and Katara are together, inexplicably, guess she secretly was in love with him all along~ ???

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The narrative has a responsibility to both the audience and the characters to have the characters learn from their mistakes and flaws. To be punished for their flaws and only rewarded when they earn it. But S3 Aang has the same issues when it comes to what stands between him and Katara as he did in S1, and their relationship is never discussed or resolved before just deciding they're together now. It's funny because for the most part they did this well with Zuko. He constantly failed and was punished for being a bad actor. He is only rewarded with everyone's trust when he goes out of his way to earn it without expecting anything. Thus, the characters choose to befriend him, and he earns his relationships and close scenes. Katara is there for him when he faces Iroh and later Azula because of the trust and friendship he built by being there for her in return, helping her find closure. She chose to form this relationship as a result of his sincere efforts.

Where was Katara's choice when it came to Kataang? She continuously exhibits that she isn't interested but her feelings are never included in the equation. Aang doesn't trust her to make the right decision when she goes to confront her mother's killer and acts like he knows her own feelings and what she needs better than her. It's a consistent pattern of him not considering her side of things. It makes the ending, again, reinforce that it's not all that important to have a partner that accepts and understands you and what you need. To love is to really see someone, to consider them, not try to tell them what they need and how to feel. It is loving them for who they choose to be including the person who doesn't choose you. And if they won't listen to your advice and you can't accept the choices they make, you let them go. You can't deny them a choice to fit them into what you want them to be. (*cough cough* Aang with Katara in TSR and the show with all of Katara's pov to make her end up with Aang)

This is all juxtaposed with Zuko who finds out what the real problem is and constantly considers her and if she's okay at any given time and trusts and backs up her decisions. He doesn't try to tell her what to feel, he asks her what she feels and takes it seriously. The episode ends with Aang and her not on the same page but her and Zuko having this new bond because he saw and heard her and was able to be what she needed in a huge life moment.

There are some pretty big compatibility issues that come up as well that are once more contrasted by just how compatible Zuko and Katara are. Katara and Zuko can't understand sparing Ozai and Aang can't understand her not forgiving Yon Rha. Aang also tends to run away/conflict avoid when things go down and people need him (never really resolved) and Katara won't leave when people need her. Zuko also was shown to match Katara in this way, having an issue with avoiding conflict/doing nothing (sticking around to help that family for instance). He also matches Katara on the day-to-day invisible labor and tendency to keep the group moving forward (both responsible and mature). Katara is usually always the one saving or helping Aang through a crisis which is immediately contrasted when Zuko enters the group, as they are shown saving each other equally and showing up for each other emotionally.

It all paints a picture of Zutara being the opposite of Kataang in that it fixes every problem they have. You have two people who are on the same page and whose input on what relationship they have is equally valued and developed by the story. In every regard they put in equal effort for each other, and both align with and complement each other at the same time. And then you have Kataang where Katara does nearly all the work taking care of Aang and gets no consideration in return, no say. She is merely interpreted from Aang's perspective, which is canonically shown to be unreliable and wrong about her.

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I believe media has a responsibility to think about the kind of message it's sending, because it shapes the culture around it. What kind of message is it sending treating Katara like a wholly unimportant actor in what is literally the canon endgame ship of the show? Treating her as a reward who has no real say and has to be with the main guy cause he's nice and saved the day (despite her own feelings) feels like something an incel would concoct. Especially with how angry he was at the thought she might not like him back despite NEVER ONCE thinking about it from her side. Saying it was built up when the only clear feelings we ever saw were from one side frames women as passive accessories to their male counterpart with perspectives that do not matter. Like he got a trophy for winning. Like she's an object and not a person.

The weird entitlement to randomly kiss a girl just because you like her without thinking the position you're putting her in or if she likes you back also makes me feel sick. And I hate that they made a character I like do something like that multiple times. And I hate that it feels like Katara was forced to kiss him at the end of the show when she was clearly not wanting to both previous times and it never resolved. Idk it feels violating. Like. She wouldn't do that.