独木沉舟，日暮滩头

STARSHIP VINGILOT (#78) Tolkien Reverse Summer Bang 2025 - @tolkienrsb

featuring Earendil in space - in collaboration with @maya-tl, whose breathtakingly beautiful writing (now available and linked below) perfectly captures the spirit and mood intended in the art:

Summary by the author:

like mother, like daughter | TRSB 2025 collaboration with @lendmyboyfriendahand!

A queen has to protect her people first, regardless of her duties as a mother. Nimloth and Elwing both understand this, and do what they can to protect their children anyway.

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1. Quenya ban

I've seen the Quenya ban be described as cultural genocide which icks me out. First of all, maybe don't use genocide to describe fictional characters in a fictional universe, especially when it's happening to real people and cultures. Second of all, that term is still inaccurate. Quenya was spoken in Gondolin, probably in Hithlum and Nargothrond too, and no one was punished for it. Earendil could speak Quenya. The Numenoreans could speak Quenya. Bilbo fucking Baggins could speak Quenya.

The ban was a nonviolent way for Thingol to enact some sort of consequence for the people who murdered his brother's people, stole their ships, and then took advantage of his hospitality while keeping this heinous secret. And it was a way to make sure that Sindarin remained the lingua franca of Beleriand, because the Noldor had already proven their disdain towards the Sindar and their intent to establish their own kingdoms. I think it was imakemywings who said that the ban was also a soft power move to show how all the Sindar who worked with/under the Noldor were still ultimately loyal to Thingol and would obey his decree.

So no, the Quenya ban was not racist or xenophobic or cultural genocide. Again, don't use those terms to describe fiction, and if you insist on doing so, at least look them up in the dictionary first.

2. Isolationism

No he wasn't. He was friends with the dwarves, the Laiquendi, and the Falathrim. He made a mutually beneficial alliance with the Haladin. He was rightfully wary of the (armed-to-the-teeth and hiding something) Noldor but even after he learns about the kinslaying he says he won't cut off relations with the Nolofinweans indefinitely because he recognizes that they're in the fight against Morgoth together.

The Girdle of Melian was only put in place after the first battle when Denethor was killed and it was absolutely the right decision strategically. Thingol knew immediately what it took the Noldor 400 years and countless deaths to understand: there was no defeating Morgoth without the Valar. So he took his people and anyone else who was willing, and he created a kingdom with a semblance of peace where they could thrive. Doriath was a fortress and a symbol of hope for Beleriand. As long as Doriath stood, Morgoth hadn't won completely. No one who cared about Beleriand would have sacrificed that hope for some fanciful ideals of vengeance and glory. And don't forget, he let Beleg and Mablung participate in the Nirnaeth. The fact that only those two went means that no one else in Doriath was willing to fight.

3. Maedhros's comment about a king is he who can hold his own

The arrogance. I'm sorry, Mr. I Got Fooled By Morgoth, were you able to hold your own? You'd be a skeleton hanging from a cliff if Fingon hadn't rescued you. Thingol was filling his armories while the Noldor were still chilling in Valinor. Thingol was battling Morgoth while the Noldor were betraying each other and abandoning their home. He literally said: "...elsewhere there are many of my people, and I would not have them restrained of their freedom, still less ousted from their homes." Those are the words of a king who feels responsible for the people outside of Doriath too. Also, check out the difference between Maedhros's "we'll go wherever we want" comment and Thingol's "I don't like them but they'll be the deadliest foes of Morgoth".

His decision to retreat and put up the Girdle was strategically sound. Many Laiquendi joined him after Denethor's death and the Falathrim came and went freely. He had a choice between spreading out his already depleted forces to help the northern Sindar/Falathrim (and likely get annihilated) or retreat, recover, and wait for a better opportunity (the arrival of the Noldor was not a better opportunity; like I said, he knew only the Valar could defeat Morgoth, and Melian also sensed the Doom). Again, Doriath was a symbol of hope. "Gondor wanes, you say. But Gondor stands." Its survival was essential.

4. Attitude towards Men

Look I'm not going to defend his less-than-stellar attitude, but I do think it's exaggerated by the fandom. Before Beren came, Thingol still agreed to let the Haladin dwell in his territory. He even sent the marchwardens to aid them against orcs. And the minute he realizes Beren's loyalty, bravery, and true love for Luthien, he changes and welcomes him (and also appreciates his humor). He treats Turin like a son, and honors and pities Hurin even when Hurin disrespects him. Turgon otoh refuses to let Hurin into Gondolin even though they were actually friends.

5. Didn't join the Union of Maedhros

See: reasons above. Doriath had to survive. Elves could not defeat Morgoth without the Valar. Also, afaik he didn't actually have an army, just the marchwardens and his guard. Also also, Maedhros had subtly threatened him, Celegorm and Curufin had openly threatened him, and this was after they kidnapped and tried to forcibly marry Luthien. Also also also, he "went not to war, nor any out of Doriath save Mablung and Beleg" meaning the general populace didn't want to fight either.

6. Didn't accept refugees

As far as I'm aware, this is completely fanon. The (Noldorin, just fyi) refugees of Nargothrond are accepted into Doriath, as are the Sindar after Bragollach. Curufin and Celegorm's people join Amrod in Ossiriand I believe after the Nirnaeth. There's no canonical basis for this claim.

7. Responsible for Finrod's death

Nah dude. I'm not saying he was right in setting the quest, it was absolutely a horrible quest. But Finrod decided of his own free will to help Beren. You can say that he wouldn't have died if Thingol hadn't set the quest, but that's like saying if Morgoth hadn't stolen the Silmarils, the kinslayings wouldn't have happened. Objectively true, but missing a whole lotta nuance and absolving the Feanorians of their culpability. And I'm not comparing Thingol with Morgoth so don't start.

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The criticisms I don't mention are the ones I agree with. He should have listened to Melian. He should have reasoned with the dwarves instead of insulting them; honestly, his death was pretty stupid. He probably should have been a little more willing to establish relations with the Nolofinweans, but I understand completely why he didn't. He definitely shouldn't have fucked with the Silmaril but tbh, that seemed like one of the parts where a bigger force was determining things, like it was written in the Music already, because that Silmaril did play a key role in Morgoth's defeat.

In conclusion: Thingol rocked, fandom shocked.

"Eärendil was a mariner

that tarried in Arvernien

he built a boat of timber felled

in Nimbrethil to journey in…”

-@outofangband

Thank you for the ask!

Okay so, in my thoughts, Manwe would become corrupted in the process of fighting Melkor (I think that's what Tolkien meant when he said any one of the Valar could have followed Melkor's path). So in this verse, you'd have the two oldest and most powerful Valar fighting each other, and this time Manwe wouldn't care about collateral damage.

Now, Manwe is weaker than Melkor, but he's not weak. His control over the weather is pretty scary and if he became a dark lord, he would use it against Melkor, wreaking havoc on Middle Earth in the process. Not only that, Melkor had spies everywhere but they could get caught/found out. What could anyone hide from Manwe when every winged creature answered to him?

I firmly believe that Melkor would be more powerful and more evil than any corrupted version of Manwe, but here's what would make Manwe more terrifying: people would follow him willingly. Melkor is the Bad Guy, with some motivation but not much nuance, and he is pretty much alone. Everyone hates him, including his own servants. But Manwe is the King of Arda, and the Valar are utterly loyal to him. Most of them would follow him to the Dark Side (maybe not Nienna or Ulmo or even Varda, but what can they do when Namo Keeper of the Dead and Irmo Master of Dreams and Aule the Maker are Corrupted). Manwe wouldn’t need to create orcs when he has an army of Ainur and Eldar who genuinely believe in him. He wouldn’t need to torture and destroy when he and his siblings could change the very essence of who you are. I think in this verse, the only resistance to both sides would come from Men who, as always, would suffer the most. 

Here’s the thing: Dark Lord Manwe would still be Manwe. He’d still be benevolent and merciful. Everything he’d do would be “for the greater good, to fulfill Eru’s Plan”. Melkor, Sauron, and Saruman were plain evil, and that made it easy for the Free Peoples of Arda to resist them at least mentally/spiritually. But under Dark Lord Manwe, there would be no Free Peoples left. 

“He would have remained 'righteous', but self-righteous. He would have continued to rule and order things for 'good', and the benefit of his subjects according to his wisdom (which was and would have remained great). [The draft ends here. In the margin Tolkien wrote: 'Thus while Sauron multiplied [illegible word] evil, he left "good" clearly disting. “  

Thank you :D Words are failing me today but here are these sketchy family trees. The little circles represent the eye colour… close up is under the cut :)

(Glorfindel: You can trust me with your boys Elrond, I was the No.1 Peredhel babysitter in Gondolin, i even got a medal for that, your dad love me most and have I ever told you one time we balabala……)

(Cirda & Gil-galad: it only take Earendil and Elwing, like 1 second, to decide go get married, what a young sweet couple……so Elrond, hurry up, seriously.)