who do you think taught you to laugh and cry—you think it's my fault you forgot how? (20s, they/them, asian. follows + likes from @adinaastra. occasionally runs on untagged queue. archived at @whathappenedtodess.)
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i really like the way toby fox use deltarune to tell stories that undertale didn't get to tell, without making any of them the "definitive" version of that story. what kind of warrior was gerson? well, deltarune won't tell us that, but what if we got to see a darkner warrior based on him! what kind of people were the human souls? well, we won't get that, but what if a bunch of soul-themed flower darkners pretended to be humans? i like it
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im already seeing ppl say susie coming more into femininity is a way to show she's Maturing and Becoming More Sensitive (because masculine girls are actually just repressed and can't be masc and sensitive at the same time ofc /S) and i'm just gonna put it out there that if that narrative spreads any further within the fandom even remotely you are going to see me on international television
alright NOW i'm seeing ppl get outright dogpiled for being worried about where this may be going and some genuine "let women be feminine" ass posts and i just want to explain my own BUTCH thoughts on where the concern is coming from ok
when people express worries about something as small as susie wearing ribbons, we're not saying butches can't have fun or experiment with their own presentation. literally nobody is saying that a bow makes somebody femme or something.
what I'M saying is that it can easily be seen as a warning sign for a specific trope that has been done to death. Whenever there's a female character that leans more masculine at the start of a story, that story almost always ties her femininity to her character development. She may start out tough and rowdy and masculine, but as she grows more into herself and/or gets a love interest, it's revealed she was actually just repressing her real preferences, and any masculinity she had was just a facade.
It communicates the extremely common attitude that butches have to deal with in real life: For girls, masculinity is fake, something to grow out of. When they grow, they will eventually come to fit into the feminine mold that is Woman. A girl can never be truly comfortable in strictly masculine presentation.
one of the reasons I personally have gotten so attached to Susie is that, for the large majority of the story, her masculinity has gone completely unquestioned even as she's developed into a softer, more caring person. nobody questions when she refers to herself with masculine terms or refuses to wear ribbons, they just accept it as being a part of her just as much as anything else.
and then, in the prophecy, she is The Girl. The other two, The Cage and The Prince, are focused on the specific roles they play in the story, while Susie's part is entirely reduced to her gender. yes, "prince" is a gendered term, but still very different from if it was just "The Boy."
This, to me, feels like a subversion of the character archetype that is The Girl-- the character whose entire personality is Girl, who knows all things pink and glamorous and cute. This archetype is more common in older video games and cartoons, which Deltarune already tends to parody. Ralsei says himself, The Girl is supposed to be able to equip ribbons.
Susie doesn't fit that archetype, and she's still unflinchingly accepted as The Girl, because none of those things are actually tied to gender identity. She doesn't need to be feminine to be The Girl, because girls do not need to be feminine.
and for the record, i do understand why becoming more feminine might fit into her arc! i can very well see her not viewing femininity as "available" to her in the same way she wasn't allowed to play piano. i don't think it would be out of character or even out of place. I would just be, y'know, extremely disappointed if that actually turns out to be where her arc goes.
I know a lot of this seems like a huge overreaction, especially considering Susie immediately gets uncomfortable wearing a ribbon on her head and makes it an armband, but this kind of reaction comes from YEARS of having to dig and squint for any itty bitty scrap of actual butch representation we can get. because, genuinely, there is so fucking little to go around.
So, instead of dogpiling people and saying they're Bad and Media Illiterate to interpret something as a warning sign of an extremely common trope that has burned us over and over and OVER again, maybe give a little grace? Just a little fucking patience????
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Ok that’s the last of bothering Tenna with Flowery I swear
I’ve also been considering drawing him more like manga.. or having him emote like an anime. But… he like never emotes..
My friend pointed this out to me when we played deltarune. Why does Asgore look like Wendigoon dude it’s been plaguing me ever since. I can’t unsee it. Why. Why does he look like Isaiah Wendigoon what the fuck
actually ☝️ orientalism is NOT about lumping all asian cultures together, it's specifically about the manufactured conceptualization of asia as an "other" in relation to the west. as palestinian-american writer edward saïd says in the book where he coined the term, "Orientalism can be discussed and analyzed as the corporate institution for dealing with the Orient — dealing with it by making statements about it, authorizing views of it, describing it, by teaching it, settling it, ruling over it: in short, Orientalism as a Western style for dominating, restructuring, and having authority over the Orient" (3).
and in my opinion, this is exactly what toby fox does in ch5. there is no concrete reason for him to invoke japanese imagery, fashion, music styles, architecture, etc etc that is actually tied to the plot. none of the main characters of this chapter are explicitly japanese or even asian-coded in general. ch5 both fetishizes japanese aesthetics and fails to meaningfully engage with them. & regardless of intention, this message is communicated to the fans as well, reinforcing ideas they may already hold of asia as the "other". i really liked other parts of the chapter, but this aspect is orientalist, plain and simple.
i've been pondering for a while about how to respond to this ask and i think my problem with ch5 being based on japan boils down to it being the Only chapter that is based on a certain region. the dark worlds so far are card game, internet, TV, church, and now Place, Japan; fans are naturally going to wonder why that is! also, you're right that it can be hard to tell the difference between appreciation and appropriation, but we can't look for the answer in people's intentions. just because toby and the deltarune team made this chapter in good faith, that does not absolve them from ultimately creating something orientalist (even if by accident). the reason the dark world is based on japan of all places, the reason why toby "knows about" it and not other cultures, is because japan is fetishized in that way by the west. the jrpgs toby is supposedly drawing inspiration from don't even really have feudal aesthetics like the ones depicted in ch5. ultimately it is not my choice to decide what is or isn't orientalist but this has been a criticism i've seen from many people in my circles. when a game is basically using a culture as a cool prop i think it's only right to speak up about it.
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