Vini | +21 | He/Him | Autistic | Survivor | 🇧🇷
Main hyperfocus: Undertale/Deltarune; Hazbin Hotel/Helluva Boss; Invader Zim (ps: I've always interpreted Zim being the same age as Dib and I always will and I have proof in the show, show's bible and movie for this interpretation); She-ra and the Princess of Power; The Amazing Digital Circus
I like to post about my reactions, favorite characters, shipping, theories and opinions about my current hyperfocus! =)
I prefer to focus on the positive parts and the parts I liked, because first and foremost this is supposed to be fun. So I straight up block anyone who is trying to start a discourse/talking in bad faith/being rude to me, I don't want that negativity and futility in my life. Have a nice week and drink water!
Sometimes I also like to funnily roast some jerks characters that I like, I like them because they are terrible people, if they have a redemption arc it's just a bonus for me x)
Very important: abusive characters doesn't mean beyond redemption to me!
If I misgender someone or some character, please tell me! It wasn't never my intention!! My native language doesn't have official gender-neutral pronouns, so sometimes google translate automatically translates to he/him pronouns. I always try to check before posting, but sometimes it can go unnoticed! :(
For some reason this also happens with Tenna, almost always his pronouns are changed to she/her for some reason, I always need to change manually. Sometimes this also happens with Spamton and he's referred as it/its. Pain. T_T
I post my own opinions and interpretations, feel free to respectfully disagree with them. But 99% of the time (unless I asked) I don't want to debate with anyone, so please don't start a debate with me, I just want to express my opinions in my corner, if someone agrees with me that's just a bonus. Instead you can make your own post with your own opinions instead!
Important info about my tags:
*Characters's names mixed together*: ship tag
"Character A and Character B": not ship tag
It may take me a while to answer your ask, I sometimes get a bit overwhelmed and I like to give properly attention ^_^ Thank you for understanding
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you said spamton is the only homeless character but susie is also homeless she lives at the school
They are in similar situations, much as poverty and very precarious conditions (I’ve mentioned this several times), but it isn’t exactly the same situation. She has a home, we already saw her room in ch3.
She has a place to live, but she’s a kid being extremely neglected by her guardians and Carol. So she sleeps in Castle Town because that’s where she truly feels at home.
It is very different from an adult man who cannot work and make money and has been abandoned by everyone he knew, literally living in a garbage can.
my egg cracked mid-june when Toby fox said "you already have all of the things you need, you can still change your story. here's an egg go crack it." and Gooseworx said "suicidal transgender you should transition or you'll kill yourself"
obviously this is a joke the both TADC and Deltarune made me realize a lot of things about myself. I am so happy to have both of these things in my life and I hope with my own story I can also inspire others to create.
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Phew, I thought I was going crazy because all this time I was agreeing with Ralsei when they say that Orange is indeed a mouse and doesn't look like a human, and stating that objective fact isn't bullying. (x)
I don't talk as much about what Spamton did wrong in the Weird Route compared to what other characters did wrong in the Pacifist Route because, honestly... it's kind of pointless..?
Yes, what he did in the Weird Route is horrible and inexcusable, he wasn't breaking the cycle of abuse, he's enabling the soul who is abusing Kris and Noelle. I can perhaps talk about how neglected and isolated people who don't have any support can do horrible things, and it's something that could often be avoided and that's something very realistic. Or that he wasn't the only one who was horrible and selling a dangerous weapon to kids (Pink Addison), or he wasn't the only one abusing and using people (Queen and Plugboys in both routes).
But that's all. What else is there to say about him in that route? And judging him in *the Pacifist Route* only by the things he did in the Weird Route is the same as judging Mettaton who reconciled with his cousin Napstablook, is working and sharing the stage with them and Shyren and Burgerpants too (helping their dreams come true) for becoming a *DICTATOR* in one of the routes.
Or that Undyne wants to continue Asgore's plan and kill all humans, even the innocent ones who did nothing wrong.
Hell, even Flowey and Chara. Flowey killed his own father. And Chara helped us by saying how many more there are to kill and wanted to erase the world. And we all remember what Toby Fox thinks about Chara.
Why would I focus so much on the bad routes (which only happens if we kill people) instead of the pacifist route, which is clearly the true route with the credits and was played during the anniversary live stream?
Meanwhile, we have Swatch, Addisons, and Tenna who continue their wrongdoings, on the pacifist route. Even though we didn't kill anyone, they're still being jerks.
Swatch continues to be classist even with other characters; Addisons continue to steal Spamton's ideas while insulting him and having bad products; Tenna continues to be a bad boss and continues saying that he would help Spamton but so far nothing (he recognized that Spamton, so he knows he's alive... and by his new appearance, Tenna knows that Spamton clearly needs help)
And meanwhile Spamton on the pacifist route is helping Fun Gang after he almost killed them (as the dealmaker, he is taking responsibility for his past actions so far), making a joke about hay and also helping Ralsei's healing spell.
Judging him for things he didn't even do on this route makes no sense at all. To me, the game itself is saying that depending on the circumstances, he can be a better or worse person. Just like Susie, for example. And on the pacifist route, Spamton is being a better person. He helps the Fun Gang even if we make them not cut the wires.
I don't talk much about Spamton being privileged and wealthy during the Big Shot Era and about how he could be an oppressor because it's kind of... pointless?
Thinking he’s beyond redemption because of what he did in the past is total nonsense. Especially considering the worst thing we’ve seen him do so far is oppose using the Merry Go Round as public transport (something that required approval from others in power, which is an important detail). And we have Susie, who threatened to kill Lancer and Kris at least twice. And Queen, her very first scene is her kidnapping Noelle and physically abusing the Plugboys. There are characters who did far worse things and were redeemed. And they weren't punished, and don't need to be.
And at the end of the day, the only character who ended up homeless, lost all his privileges, and isn't even viewed as a person is Spamton. Meanwhile, all the other characters remain privileged and continue to be oppressive.
The Addisons keep their jobs despite selling bad products, and stealing from and insulting Spamton; Swatch remains safe in Castle Town with his café, looking to gentrify Susie; Tenna holds onto his job and contracts while threatening his employees.
Sure, maybe he was prejudiced, privileged, and a total snob in the past, it’s fine to explore that, feel free. But that doesn't change the fact that he’s the only one who’s homeless so far and has lost all his privileges, while all the other characters still have theirs.
Toby Fox seeing his other rosy cheeked character get vilified along with the other morally gray human kid; people siding with the classist butler, the former coworkers who knew where this homeless character lived, the TV that claimed he saw his partner run away out of fear without thinking straight and also believing the TV genuinely didn't recognize him, even though he heard the "creature" speak sentences perfectly:
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Even regarding the Jevil reference, it feels like weak writing to assume it’s just a simply reference to him, not even trying to consider or think that other Darkners from other Dark Worlds might be connected in some way. Especially considering Jevil knew about various things that would happen in the future. Every reference so far has involved characters who know each other or share some kind of connection. Even the reference to Green Pippins knowing Friend makes sense, because Friend might appear in one of the mini games.
"It's just a reference" feels like the new "the curtains are just blue."
Let’s go with bringing the Spamton Berdly parallels here bc I saw someone discussing it
The parallels between Spamton and Berdly seem to be that they're both ‘annoying’ and biased affection starved losers, with a sense of inadequacy whom you can bring to harm.
There is roller coaster and the smart/victory smoke of course. Both where they monologue at you. Berdly tries to get Kris to join him. Spamton tries to get Kris to hand over the soul so they can be the ones calling the shots. There's a desire to reform the world in their image.
You have a tie to wanting kisses/romance, Berdly's coaster has the duck pout, and hearts fly up when the coasters hit it. Berdly also wants a beautiful gamer girl to kiss him. He has the, rose scene. Spamton has the Love Network, booth, and a focus on kisses in the sweepstakes
They both seem to be lonely but then like to act as though they are fine. Berdly saying he 'likes being alone' and Spamton saying the Addisons 'don't even register' to him anymore. Even though these are both clearly lies.
Queen ends up ignoring both of them as well
They're both have a contentious relationship with games. Berdly thinks using a wave-dash is 'cheating', and is upset Kris uses it, likely indicating Kris is better at games. The Z rank is linked to Spamton. Spamton also can't even win at games even when he cheats. Spamton also gets furious when you use the bigshot exploit.
They both seem to be likely targets for mockery or bullying. Spamton has a very interesting implication that he was swirlied in the toilet in the palace since it's by the acid. The Berdly statue is also, stuffed into the toilet
Berdly and Spamton of course also both end up iced by Noelle for acting as an obstacle to the player's intent. A character they both have long running connections with. Spamton references this in the sweepstakes (also is referencing a YTP at the same time).
This is particularly interesting because it means you ice the two guys with some misogynistic tendencies but it’s in the worst route. The one where you ultimately end up being way more misogynistic to Noelle by making her a tool, an object. By forcing a corrupted symbol of love on her through her friend.
Why ? Well I think Toby is trying to make it clear with these parallels that while both Berdly and Spamton have this flaw, that going out of your way to view them as annoying obstacles denies any possibility for improvement. Also that ultimately you are no better. In fact you’re worse because they both get a narrative punishment and you just go on to do the chapter 4 wr scene. Toby’s trying to indicate that there is value in these two even if it’s difficult to see.
If Spamton or Berdly were meant to be merely jokes, their freezing/death in Spamton’s case simply wouldn’t be in the ‘evil route that sucks for everyone’.
Smaller but perhaps still intentional, Berdly provides the back up for creating a battle bot that is a fusion of everyone's powers, and Spamton speaks during his fight like he thinks taking the soul will work like a fusion. 'We'll be calling the shots, be big with me, etc.'
They both also want to be seen as important, as a target of admiration. Berdly also wants a world where he and Noelle can be number 1 and number 2, Spamton attempted to become 'big' (meaning real by the q&a ) with Tenna.
A drive for success fueled by inadequacy or failure
Spamton's reason for success was the phone. Berdley's success was because of Noelle. They're both likely insecure, and struggle with self image over this. Chasing after power to compensate.
Fun bonus, they're both associated with things in fairy tales. Berdly with the Blue bird of happiness (through his song), and Spamton with Pinnochio.
Really the major conclusion I'm drawing here is they're both kind of....losers, but also clearly both desire approval, admiration, and affection. They're lonely, and it is perhaps a real struggle to see the value in them. But it is there nonetheless
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Is it just me, or does the saying "Deltarune's themes of escapism" always set off alarm bells in your head? Like, yeah, escapism is touched upon, but I see so often the idea that the Dark World is inherently escapist, yet the conflicts the various Dark Worlds both within themselves and their effects on the Light Word present are very, very real. Susie sleeping in Castle Town and calling it "home" is escapism because she's *bending it all to be an escape for her*, ironically despite the Dark World being how she learned about the fate that clearly traumatized her, and not because the Dark World is just an escape. It's much more important than that.
I'm kind of really tired of people pretending that the final scene in chapter 5 is meant to be really sad because it's Susie sleeping in a closet with random objects, when i don't think that's the reason at all. Susie's relationship with the Dark World, in my opinion, is not that much about escapism and it's more about finally finding a place you fit in. We're meant to be happy that she's found a place where she's thriving. The reason it's such a bittersweet scene is because of Kris. Because Kris can't reach that sense of belonging. Because they can't fully commit. Because Susie's finally home but meanwhile they are stuck.
And saying that, for Susie, the Dark World is escapism, is reducing how important and meaningful her relationship with her Darkner friends are, and kind of implying that the Dark World is not real, which is an idea Ralsei proposes in chapter 3 that we the players are meant to challenge. And saying that Susie's love for the Dark World is solely based on escapism feels pretty reductive.
Characters with an escapism theme are much more Queen, Tenna, and Flowery, remembering the good old days and being unable to let go of their favorite Darkner.
Susie faced various life threatening situations in the Dark Worlds, for that reason alone it really can't just be a "safe space."
She isn't really running away from anything if she (along with all the Darkners) is growing and improving as a person. She is getting better, and she isn't the only one. Dismissing it as just escapism seems to ignore the fact that the Darkner characters have feelings too, and those feelings matter.
In my opinion, Susie's relationship with Castle Town is much more like Luz's (from The Owl House) relationship with the Demon Realm.
I also feel a bit of blame directed at Susie (a kid who eats trash or inedible things because she’s hungry), rather than at the adults who should have make the Light World a more welcoming place that doesn't exclude her, and a responsible figure always there for her, helping her grow.
It’s not Susie’s fault that they failed her and she finally found a place where she is loved and respected.
It’s good to see a Dark World ruler like Flowery who opposed Kris instead of making a deal with them like Tenna or blindly following the Knight like Queen. Though he’s only half right, because what the hell, Kris is just a kid who is clearly being manipulated by other adult characters with plenty of issues of their own and they are alone, they are a victim and they need help!!! Can someone step up as a responsible adult to help Kris and be a mentor to them?
