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Oh good how fun the old “slander a gay character and then joke about killing him for the slander you made up” routine has reached the HR fandom and predictably, it’s targetting the older gay guy.
Like how fun and creative and interesting that with the infinite possibilities of fandom it seems they’ve immediately settled on “what if Scott Hunter is punished severely for dunking on Shane Once (☝️) in the game where dunking on your opponents has its own slang term” and also that old man is a drunken sex pest who no one should have sympathy for and is completely at fault and also should die :). Everyone’s so creative!!!!!!
Receipts so you don’t think I’m exaggerating under the cut:
If you ever reblog a post where the punchline is “gay men should die for flirting with people” you are invoking Gay Panic Defense and you need to examine that. Full Stop. It happened with Tommy Kinard and now it’s happening with Scott Hunter.
“I’d shoot Tommy Kinard with a gun” 🤝 “Ilya kills Scott for asking if they’re open”
Using a real history of gay men being killed or assaulted and their attackers defending themselves in court by blaming the victims for being gay for a quick punchline.
Also it seems the tone of half the SkipDivorce posts seems to be “oh thank God! We’ve got an excuse to hate on that old faggot now? Can’t wait to tell y’all how I really felt all along.” When. Y’all made that reason up. It’s a hypothetical. You didn’t have to tell on yourself like that. But I guess when someone shows you who they are, you believe them.
And on top of everything it’s just BORING!!! It’s BORING!!!!!! You’re going to explore the idea of Scott and Kip falling apart enough to seek a divorce, knowing the symbolism and PR disaster of the First Queer Hockey Player getting divorced, the tragedy that Scott got everything he never dared to want and opened doors he thought were welded shut and now he’s walking the other way and breaking up with the first man he’s ever loved in a public spectacle that everyone is going to have an opinion on and knowing he reflects on not only himself but the entirely too small queer hockey community. This was something that the first gay divorcés absolutely wrestled with when they realized they couldn’t make it work and is a real thing with real feelings that could be explored.
And the best you can come up with is “and he was a cheating drunkard the whole time so he deserves it and no one feels bad about it and Ilya should kill him.” That’s it??????
If you’re not going to be funny at least be interesting.
like explore the conflict of a closeted man thrust into this spotlight as Gay Hockey Jesus partnered with a gay academic who was never closeted and frankly has very little empathy for that experience. there could be something to explore there but the urge to be homophobic is simply too much for the fandom girlies to resist
I said this in your DMs but a very real conflict here could be the issue of PDA, because for all Scott GameChangers changed the game, he’s still a hockey player and he might shrink from PDA in those spaces and that would reasonably piss Kip off! Scott can kiss him on the Jumbotron at the Stanley Cup but can’t hold his hand at the team watch party? And Scott isn’t doing it on purpose but he has decades of baggage he’s trying to unlearn and Kip has already been plenty patient with him waiting for 3 years (or 3 months depending on the canon) for Scott to be comfortable coming out for him so he feels a mixture of guilt and indignation about it. In his mind, Kip chose him warts and all and it’s unfair to expect all of the hiding to evaporate overnight when it’s instinctual at this point. In Kip’s mind, they’re out, it’s over they don’t have to hide! Why is Scott still pretending he’s in the closet when literally everyone knows.
That would be a very interesting, very human conflict, but step one of that is seeing gay men as human, and I think that’s a stumbling block for a lot of people in fandom.
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Main driving force behind the worst skipdivorce posts being HudCon URLs has not gone unnoticed btw. There’s a layer to this of them genuinely hating Scott in part (or in full lbr, nothing canon Scott did warrants this level of hate) because François dared to hang out with his coworker a couple times while 40.
Wait I'm confused. Is Skip divorce based on anything like leaks or is it the new flavor of the day for hating on Francois/Scott? Cuz like I don't go here and have never watched the show so, to someone not in the trenches, this is just very confusing as to why this is a thing.
Like when this sort of thing happened in 911 I at least vaguely understood a bunch of BoBs hating on Tommy (not to the extent of what they threw at the character/LFJ cuz holy shit that was insane) because BT meant Buck wasn't available for the big fandom ship but like that isn't a problem with HR. Skip and Ilya/Shane don't interfere with each other.
I can't tell if this is just anger that Francois was like hanging out with his coworker IRL which ruined the HudCon fantasy like you said or if they're like jealous that Skip got to be the first official out hockey player/couple and so they're saying Skip divorce so Ilya/Shane can be the first official couple that worked out long term in a "oh don't look at them. they didnt get married with 2.5 kids and a dog so it clearly wasnt a REAL relationship. Look over here at this other shiny couple that's totally cooler/the morally correct choice to make" sort of way
I can’t say how it’s started because I moved out of the Heated Rivalry sphere to the periphery when I saw the writing on the wall with the way they treated François that this was a fandom space that was about to be very hostile to queer men, but the posts that have crossed my dash have all seemed to have the general flavor of the week vibe of things like the “pleak” meme or Shane Day Ontario or any number of things that sweep the HR fandom at random, it’s just that the flavor this week is just, obvious homophobia that relies heavily on fabricating flaws for a gay character so he can be the Bad Gay to Hollanov’s Good Gays and whether that’s born out of a resentment for Skip being the OG GameChangers or HudCon Stans projecting their hatred of François on to Scott (it’s not lost on me that 90% of these posts make a point to say that Scott is preying on college students and that’s beat for beat the same Gay Men Are Predators trope deployed against François every time he’s seen in public with Connor) I can’t say. It may vary from person to person. It probably isn’t even consciously what they’re trying to do, it’s just that they’re uncreative and fell back on decades old tropes about gay men immediately when someone said “Skip Divorce”
You know Scott Hunter came out with The Kiss™️ in 2017. You know what was popular in 2017? The trend of those ‘thank you’ poster videos set to sad/happy/inspiring music. People would post videos of many people’s videos clipped together, with people holding up signs thanking someone. (probably started earlier but still popular in 2017)
I distinctly remember a bunch for teachers/professors, for authors, directors, and various public figures.
I just know queer 2017 youtube would absolutely have made a video of hundreds of hockey fans holding up posters thanking Scott Hunter for: being brave / being you / showing us everyone belongs in hockey / etc. Posters with notes, drawings of Scott, of the kiss, most of it shaded in rainbow colours.
(I imagine the song is a slow version of freedom by george michael but honestly take your pick, there’s so many good choices)
Kip sees it first on his feed and shows it to Scott while they’re cuddling on the couch. “I know it’s cheesy, but it’s sweet, right?”
Kip looks up halfway through, expecting to see Scott smiling but is instead met with tears on his boyfriend’s cheeks. Kip asks if he’s okay and Scott just huffs a breath and wraps an arm around Kip, adjusting the phone so they can both watch better.
It ends with an amateur hockey team in various pride merch (hats, scarves, etc.) that yells at the camera, “thank you, Scott Hunter!”
If you ever reblog a post where the punchline is “gay men should die for flirting with people” you are invoking Gay Panic Defense and you need to examine that. Full Stop. It happened with Tommy Kinard and now it’s happening with Scott Hunter.
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I think all six of the queer hockey players in the Game Changer universe that we met would have a difficult time at first connecting to anything concerning queer culture. Because they all come from years of hiding their sexuality, and from avoiding anything that might have made others suspicious of them. They don't know much or anything at all about the queer community because most of them were convinced they had to actively avoid it. But at the same time, because they're kind of public figures, many people would've expected them to be perfect and know everything.
Gonna share some thoughts about each of the six under the cut.
Scott
I believe Scott would've been the one to struggle the most right in the beginning.
Because he was the first to come out, and that wouldn't just have put a spotlight on him from the NHL. That would've also made him a very interesting figure to the queer community, and with that would've come expectations and scrutiny he probably hadn't expected because Scott was clearly only focused on how the NHL would react.
This scrutiny from the queer community would've also meant that every mistake would've been judged harshly, and I think there would've been quite a few missteps in the beginning. Because we know Scott didn't spend any time in queer spaces outside of his summer trips to Europe--and even there, I don't think he'd have lingered much beyond finding someone to hook up with. With his fear of being outed, I also don't think he'd have dared to read or watch any kind of queer media, so most of the topics that are important to the queer community would've been completely foreign to Scott.
So he would have suddenly been the icon of a group of people he barely knew anything about. But he would've had Kip and Kip's friends, who all do know the ins and outs of the queer community. I think Kip and his friends would've guided Scott in that time, and explained all the things the public would just expect Scott to know. But it would still have been a long journey for Scott to become comfortable, and to move in queer spaces without feeling out of place, because the fear he lived with for years wouldn't just vanish after coming out.
But by the time we see Scott again in Common Goal I feel he is pretty comfortable with being part of the community, at least the parts he interacts with regularly. (Are there fics exploring that journey? I'm happy about recs in the comments!)
Ryan
Ryan, I think, would've had it the easiest to adjust to being part of the queer community.
Mostly because he already seems to be on the fringes right at the beginning of his book. I don't remember if it's stated directly, but I got the feeling that when he sought out the queer village in Toronto to get an apartment, it wasn't the first time he chose that part of any town he was traded to for a home. But even then, between hockey and his anxiety and being forced to change towns at least every year, he'd not have a ton of experience there. I think he isn't any more uncomfortable in queer spaces than his anxiety makes him in all places in general, but his actual knowledge about queer culture might not be very deep.
But then he meets Fabian again, and meets Fabian's friends. And I got a little bit the impression that Fabian and his friends are the kind of people who are so deep in their own bubble that they like to forget there is a life outside of that bubble. They're also in the very deep end of the queer culture that has been used for a long time to vilify queer culture by the mainstream media (I made another post about that earlier today). And I think that would create a few stumbling blocks between Ryan and Fabian, and by that also create stumbling blocks for Ryan to find his place in the queer community.
By the time we see Fabian and Ryan in The Long Game, I think Ryan has clearly found his own place in the queer community.
Eric
I think Eric is pretty even with Ryan in having the least trouble with joining the queer community, but for different reasons. Eric is the only one of the queer hockey players we met who didn't spend years actively hiding and depriving himself of the things he wanted. He was married to a woman he loved for a long time, even happily. He knew he was bisexual all along, but it didn't really matter because he had his wife. He wasn't looking for a partner--male or female--anyway.
By the time Eric recognizes his marriage is at an end and comes to a point where he wants to explore his sexuality, he is in a very different place in his life than the rest of the characters. He is at the end of his career anyway, so there is nothing to lose there. He has also been at Scott's side for Scott's coming out and for Scott's journey of learning about the queer community. He and Scott are close friends, so I think Eric learned a lot alongside Scott, even in the years before he came out to anyone.
Which doesn't mean he won't struggle. Because he spent over two decades in a horribly homophobic environment, and that means he'll have to unlearn a lot of things. He'll have to overcome some knee-jerk reactions. But he is clearly willing to learn, and I think that's shown in much more than just him and Scott buying the Kingfisher (on Eric's part for Kyla, because clearly Scott and Eric are two peas in the same pot with finding expansive and extravagant gifts for their boyfriends). And again, he already has friends with Scott and Kip and at the end of his book also his boyfriend Kyle, who'll help him navigate that learning curve.
Troy
Troy is the one I have the most trouble getting a read on, to be honest. I think he'll struggle a lot, for internal and external reasons. We have seen that he is very self-critical and very aware of his past mistakes, and convinced himself he doesn't deserve anything good because of that (while still working to be better). I think that alone will make him hesitate to join queer spaces. And there is a lot of internalized homophobia, too, which clearly started very young with the kind of father he has.
I think if he joined online queer spaces with his real name, or even went to some offline queer spaces, he might also not get a very warm welcome (or a 'welcome' at all, rather than a 'fuck off'). For the same reason, we've seen controversy about him in fandom. There'll be people telling him to fuck off and that he did too little too late, that nothing will ever be enough to make amends for his past behaviour. Which will go right along with what he thinks about himself, so it won't be easy for Harris (and hopefully Troy's therapist! He needs one!) to convince him to ignore that kind of assholes.
But he also has Harris, who is very loud and proud, and who I think would also be very involved in the queer community in Ottawa. And who'd be happy to drag Troy around and show him off. I also think that Ilya would drag Troy along on his own journey in exploring queer culture, and Troy would go along with it for several reasons, even if he wasn't always comfortable with it.
Ilya
I believe Ilya would be the most excited to jump headfirst into exploring queer culture, especially the queer club scene. Probably not right away after getting outed, after getting married, after dealing with the backlash from the NHL and fans. But eventually, a couple of months or a year down the road, when everything has settled down a little, and when he (and Shane, because I know Shane will be supportive in any way he can) will have a little more of a handle on dealing with his depression.
And Ilya is the only one who I'm sure has previous experience with any kind of queer club scene, at least in the show, but probably also in the books. He is definitely the kind of guy who'd sneak into clubs when he was 15 and 16, even though technically he was too young. And from the clips I've seen of the conversation with Sasha in the show, I think that's where Ilya, Sasha and Svetlana spend a lot of time as teens. Back in the middle of the oughts, the queer community was thriving in the big cities like Moscow, too. (The law that would see Ilya prosecuted today was implemented in 2013!)
But Ilya has really lived a whole life since then. Being 15 and sneaking around while having to go home to a father who can't ever find out what you're up to is very different from being 30 and out and proud and having a safe home. And queer culture in the early oughts in Moscow would be very different from queer culture in the early 2020s in Canada. So while I think Ilya would be enthusiastic and pull Shane and Troy with him on the journey wherever he could (and he would be a little overwhelming and thoughtless with that concerning both Shane and Troy, we've already seen that in The Long Game), I think he'd still stumble over a lot of things, wouldn't always fit in those spaces and have a hard time to adjust to that. Especially in spaces outside of queer clubs.
Shane
I think Shane would have the most trouble with finding his own place in queer culture and the queer community. And not because any kind of disinterest (who thinks that should read chapter two in The Long Game again very closely, especially the part where the coaches are introduced to the kids!). But for his own intrinsic interests and comforts clashing with the expectation of queer culture.
Because how do we present our own community? Loudly, proudly, and colourful. And we have a lot of reasons for that. We need to shove our existence into people's faces so they will recognize us and hear us; that hasn't changed much in the past 55 and plus years. In a lot of places, we're of course much freer to celebrate during Pride events just as much as we're protesting for our rights during those, but by far not everywhere.
But Shane is the guy who doesn't really like to go to clubs. And he is the guy who built himself a cottage at a secluded lake to retreat to in his free time during summer, instead of taking vacations anywhere in the world where he wanted. Shane is uncomfortable with queer spaces in The Long Game, and of course, that's a lot about feeling that he needs to stay in the closet, but he won't just get over feeling that way just because he was outed. Getting over that is a process. We also know from canon that Shane is overwhelmed and even a little uncomfortable with the more colourful side of queer culture.
We see his thoughts when he meets Fabian for the first time in The Long Game. We see Shane remembering how he told himself when he was younger, "I'm not gay because I'm not like that kind of guy", which is a valid reaction that I know a lot of queer people had or have to deal with and have to overcome. It's one of many reasons why we fought so hard over the past decades to get better and broader representation of queer characters in media, after all. And I've seen that reaction turn around to "okay, I'm gay/queer, but I'm still not like that kind of guy, so how welcome am I really in this community?"
I think that's what Shane's biggest struggle would be. And I think Ilya wouldn't really help, because Ilya will be excited and all too ready to explore everything on offer, starting from the club scene all the way to experimenting with how he expresses himself. (Ilya is the one who happily painted his own nails and Arthur's nails to show all the Pike kids that, no, actually, it's okay for boys to have painted nails, too. While I really think that Shane is the kind of person who just doesn't get why anyone, men or women, would want to put anything on their nails. He is the guy who hired an interior designer and a stylist because he just doesn't care, after all.)
Harris will probably step into the void here and help Shane navigate that transition. Show him the quieter queer spaces where he won't stand out, wearing his usual comfortable clothes, where he can blend in and maybe find a couple of friends who just want to be who they are, just like Shane. And I think the aspect of feeling that they don't quite belong in queer spaces could also be a bonding moment for Troy and Shane.
So, I think Shane is the one who'll struggle with finding his place in the queer community the longest. Not at least because both he and Ilya have a disadvantage compared to the other four hockey players from the series, because they don't have a partner already part of the queer community who can guide them.
Nah, Kip and Scott aren't getting a divorce. They'll have their ups and downs, but in the end they'll live happily ever after and die of old age after a happy and fulfilled life. Scott won't vanish into being forgotten by the hockey world once he retires, as he once envisioned, though, and he'll always be a little chargrined that it's not his hockey he is remembered for but his sexuality and his fight against the NHL because of that. A bigger part of him is proud that he was able to take that first step for everyone who was able to follow, no matter how much he had to work his whole life for queer players to be accepted in the NHL.
The press, though? They're vultures. And they live off drama. Especially drama they can use to point fingers and tell everyone, "See, this change brings nothing but bad things; better everything stays as it was before." The more hate they can spew, the better.
Scott hasn't been out for a half year yet when the first gossip rag brings a headline about their supposedly oh so messy breakup. Kip and Scott laugh it off; they laugh especially hard over Scott allegedly cheating on Kip. The next time they see one of the headlines (they miss most of them in the beginning), it's Kip who allegedly turned out to be a gold digger just before their wedding, with Scott just so getting away before Kip could steal all his money in a long planned con. They laugh that one off, too.
The gossip rags get more annoying a little later on when, after Ilya and Shane are outed, there is a loud movement among hockey fans--supported by some politicians and, of course, also a not insignificant part of the management higher up in the NHL--who proclaim they need to take hockey back from the queers and "make it a family-friendly sport again". That's when the accusations and made-up stories in the "press" (because Kip has whole lectures prepared about how what those gossip rags do is so, so far away from producing news) get vicious and, at times, allege either of them of actual crimes.
The first time Scott and Kip sue one of the gossip rags is when they claim Kip filed for divorce allegedly because he discovered Scott cheating on him with a young man "who could barely be 18". Scott grits his teeth when it's surprisingly difficult to win that case, and afterwards it just gets worse. Death threats are nothing new for them; they hired a social media manager and lawyers mere weeks after the cup finale in 2017 to deal with that part of social media. But when one of the online portals that happily reports their divorce and their "depravity" every other month lets their comment section run rampant with fantasies about killing them, including not one, not two, but three of their own "reporters" joining into the frenzy, they're in court again.
It's the beginning of a long list of lawsuits, and Scott is glad he has the money to pay for the lawyers, and that he got a new manager after he came out, who not only didn't care about his sexuality but also got him better endorsement deals. Endorsement deals with labels that even stay at his side through all this uproar. Because he honestly doesn't know if the pay check fromt he NHL alone would've covered his legal matters.
It goes on a couple of years, and it's not always easy for Scott and Kip to navigate it all, not to break apart on it. But they have a support system in Kip's family, in Kip's friends, in Scott's friends. And eventually, after the sixth gossip rag had to not only pay out millions in reparations for defamation--all of which Scott and Kip donate to organisations supporting the LGBTQ+ community--but also post a public apology, they learn their lesson.
Scott gets to play a couple of years without all that bullshit going on. Kip somehow managed to get not one but two more degrees and has managed to make a positive name for himself in the field he specialized in despite all that going on. There are still a lot of things that aren't good in the NHL, but the change for the better is already visible at least. And Scott knows that once he retires from being an active player, he'll keep pushing for more of that change, and with Carter and Eric and even with Shane and Ilya and--something that still surprises him at times--even Troy Barrett, and a surprising number of other players or former players, he has somehow gathered a group around him that will help him with that.
Skip divorce but everyone-who-knew-them saw this coming in a #nonhomophobic way. Like, people were meeting up and gossiping like "and they still together!", every time they have a fight seven different calls are made and at least 20 texts are sent like "maybe this time" like a dog that might die soon.
And every single time, Hollanov fuck about it. Of course.
You expect me to believe that people pleaser Scott - who tries to be the perfect hockey player, perfect captain, perfect New York charity fundraiser host and attendee, and perfect boyfriend -
and people pleaser Kip - who gives great customer service, who patiently answers THE STUPIDEST undergrad questions as a TA, who WAITS for Scott to come out, who makes the perfect no-feta chicken salad for Scott -
aren't gonna make it long term?
No. No way. I call bullshit.
Kip will drag Scott into therapy, or couples counseling (there's no way Scott doesn't have PTSD or C-PTSD), and get some himself, so they can work things out and stay together, and Scott will do it because he'll do anything for the man who made his life worth living again (AND fired him up from his scoring slump)
Because Scott is a one-man man, who is hopelessly, helplessly devoted to his beautiful, patient Kip
And Kip already put up with THE HARDEST PART of their relationship (whether TV canon 3 years, or book canon months) all that time that Scott was still closeted and paranoid
and he's NOT giving up on it after the hardest part is over
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Skip divorce but everyone-who-knew-them saw this coming in a #nonhomophobic way. Like, people were meeting up and gossiping like "and they still together!", every time they have a fight seven different calls are made and at least 20 texts are sent like "maybe this time" like a dog that might die soon.
And every single time, Hollanov fuck about it. Of course.
You expect me to believe that people pleaser Scott - who tries to be the perfect hockey player, perfect captain, perfect New York charity fundraiser host and attendee, and perfect boyfriend -
and people pleaser Kip - who gives great customer service, who patiently answers THE STUPIDEST undergrad questions as a TA, who WAITS for Scott to come out, who makes the perfect no-feta chicken salad for Scott -
aren't gonna make it long term?
Kip will drag Scott into therapy, or couples counseling (there's no way Scott doesn't have PTSD or C-PTSD), and get some himself, so they can work things out and stay together, and Scott will do it because he'll do anything for the man who made his life worth living again (AND fired him up from his scoring slump)
Because Scott is a one-man man, who is hopelessly, helplessly devoted to his beautiful, patient Kip
And Kip already put up with THE HARDEST PART of their relationship (whether TV canon 3 years, or book canon months) all that time that Scott was still closeted and paranoid
and he's NOT giving up on it after the hardest part is over