I Choose The Bear

And I overall grasped your feelings and review, but my question still stands, I think? Maybe you can share some thoughts in the D/s dynamics pov specifically👉👈

You know so much about D/s dynamics and relationships (duh, obviously, ik shocking) I just wanted to start with a compliment, and I really do enjoy reading your posts and insights. I feel like it scratches my brain in all the right ways and I also feel like I'm learning more about myself, while learning more about the characters in Payback and their dynamic (I relate so much to Sun, it's not even funny)

That all being said, I wanted to ask you if you have seen show called Love in the Air (aired in 2022)? It was more or less unanimously decided that the first couple of Phayu and Rain also had D/s dynamic. So I was wondering if you have watched it? And if you maybe have any insights or thoughts about it? Or maybe just something that is worth mentioning or sharing?

If you haven't watched it yet I would recommend you check it out. Maybe you'll enjoy it as much as some of us did🙌

Anyways, as a final word from me - thank you for your posts and your insights about Sun and Jay's dynamic!!

Lmao oh do I have thoughts about LITA. I would say just search for the "payurain" tag on my blog. It'll take you to them lol. I would say LITA has both the same draw and the same issues for me as Payback. It's an obviously kinky dynamic with actors who have great chemistry and 🔥 sex scenes, but it also didn't begin in a consensual way and wasn't ever negotiated, the way kink dynamics irl should be. Which I find frustrating tbh. There's this idea that kink negotiation isn't sexually and/or emotionally intimate, which I couldn't disagree with more. Getting to share my kinks with a Dom and talk about the things that we both do and don't want in a D/s relationship is incredibly intense. It requires a lot of trust to share that part of myself(I know I talk about it on here, but none of y'all know me personally, and I also don't get super into detail), and it thus makes me feel extremely vulnerable, something I quite enjoy feeling in front of my Dom. There are absolutely ways to write a fully consensual D/s relationship that makes negotiation sexy, and I've never found a BL that has even tried. If anyone reading this has, please drop recs.

Sorry for the rant, it just deeply annoys me that I have to tolerate lack of consent and negotiation to get to experience the beauty of kink dynamics in BLs, which necessitates that I repeatedly mention in my posts that the lack of consent and negotiation is unacceptable. Still, I do greatly enjoy both Payurain and Jaysun.

However, actual punishment is still necessary, and Jay now understands that it's emotional pain that's effective. Which is why, when he wants to break Sun out of that playful mood, he draws Sun's attention to his cut wrist

Something that absolutely works and brings Sun's attention and desire to be obedient to the forefront of his mind

One of the reasons true punishment is so important in a D/s relationship is that it actually helps center subs and makes us feel oddly calmer after. The biggest draw of D/s relationships for us is to let someone else be in charge. Free us from having to make decisions, something that, for whatever reason, is either difficult for us or just something we don't like doing. When our Dom punishes us, it reinforces the sense of them being the one in control and making decisions for us. Yet it can also be strangely empowering. The Dom can only punish us if we allow it to happen. Putting aside the lack of negotiation and the coercive nature of how their relationship started, both of which are unacceptable irl, the fact is, Sun allows Jay to punish him. He actively gives Jay that power by not truly fighting back in the first scene. But it's power that he's very aware he possesses.

You can only freely give someone power if you have power to give away. Becoming aware of that power, and knowing that you can take it back if you wish, is ultimately, as I said, empowering. Sun doesn't have to accede to any of this. Did Jay pressure him in a way that would be unacceptable irl? Sure. But Sun's revenge seeking has ended. He no longer has any need of Jay for anything except their romantic and kink relationship. He could walk away at any time(I'm ignoring Jay's behavior in the manhwa here because that version of him and their dynamic is different in fundamental ways). At this point, Jay has no real power over him except that which Sun freely gives. I believe this is why Jay's reminder of the effective punishment helps Sun focus and calm. Sun has given Jay power, and Jay has shown that it's meaningful power. Sun might be in the hospital after being beaten in a fight and almost killed, needing to be saved by others, but he still has power, to do with as he wishes. Seeing that power reflected in Jay's actions makes him feel safe. Centered. Loved.

There's absolute terror in his eyes. Seriously, what does he think Jay's plan is? He can't think Jay is about to kill him. I mean, Jay is looking at him in a cold and pitiless fashion

I too would be quite frightened if my Dom was looking at me like that, especially if I knew that s/he was a sadist. I suppose it's the unknown that scares him so much. Their relationship is frustratingly unnegotiated(standard disclaimer that if you're going to practice kink, always, ALWAYS, negotiate, don't do it like these two), so Sun has no real way of knowing how far Jay might take this.

I will say, it's notable to me that, despite Sun's resistance and fear of what Jay might do, he doesn't go to the lengths that he could to stop Jay, even with his stab wound. I find it highly unlikely that there would be no stronger actions for him to take in order to prevent someone from using a knife on him in that moment. He has a whole other uninjured arm that he isn't using to push Jay off of him.

Seriously, he could absolutely use his other arm to fight against Jay more effectively, but he doesn't. It's clear that, at this point, Sun ultimately feels that Jay has a right to do as he wishes to Sun. Sun might beg and plead and struggle some, but he won't ultimately try to stop Jay from punishing him. The main weapon he uses, at least in that moment, is this:

Which, as I think we all know at this point, will only be a goad to Jay's appetite

So Sun, faced with an angry, disapproving Dom, does some quick thinking

And decides that flattery is his way out of more punishment

But Jay, nobody's fool, starts narrowing his eyes, because he knows where Sun is going with this

I find Jay's flat, unimpressed expression so very, very funny

While he doesn't exactly shove Sun away, he only barely returns the kiss(I can't do gifs so you'll have to go rewatch that part yourself for proof lol)

After pulling away, Sun studies Jay's face, trying to suss out if he managed to get away with that

I love Jay's wry smile here. He knows exactly what Sun was trying to pull, and can't help but be a little charmed by it, if only because Sun initiating kisses is still rather novel

But he has no intention of letting Sun get away with that. The fact that Sun is finally willing to admit that he's attracted to Jay is entirely beside the point. Jay is trying to discuss Sun's disobedience, using the fact that he can't have sex with Sun as an example of one of the bad results of that disobedience. Sun knows this, and he knows that Sun knows this, so no amount of trying to change the subject to be about how Sun also, in fact, wants to have sex with Jay is going to work.

Tbh, Sun's disappointed look at those words is my favorite part. I've known many a sub who thought they could pull a fast one on their Dom to avoid punishment and been as incorrect as Sun was.

Sidenote, this whole interaction makes Sun's subsequent brattiness also hilarious. The punishment Sun was attempting to evade(the emotional pain from watching Jay hurt himself) wasn't at all what Jay had in mind. I think that's part of the reason why Jay looked so amused after Sun deliberately antagonized him into pressing against the stab wound.

I assumed while watching this that we'd see Jay drop his jacket and rush over to Sun in deep concern, but tbh this makes more sense. Jay is a very composed person who is also extremely dominant, and he's looking at his bleeding, beaten up sub who disobeyed his direct orders and might have gotten himself killed. It's only natural for him to stare at Sun with deep disapproval. Oh, I'm sure he called an ambulance and got Sun help, and likely put pressure on the wound while he waited, which the showrunners could have let us see, but I think that they wanted to emphasize his feelings of anger at Sun's reckless disobedience(and also perhaps not lengthen the run time). We never actually see Jay express any sympathy for Sun, and the most concern he shows is when he wakes up next to Sun in the hospital room and initially thinks he might have a fever(something he would need to fetch a doctor for). But, even then, his expression stays stern and unsympathetic. As soon as he verifies that Sun has no need of a doctor and is just in pain from his injuries, Jay cocks his head, and, with a slight gleam of cruelty on his face, runs his hand across Sun's wound. He seems to view it as a toy for himself and a punishment for Sun. There's no reason, in his view, to feel sorry for Sun at all. As far as Jay is concerned, Sun disobeyed a direct order and inflicted this pain on himself. His lack of sympathy is even shown in the way he draped himself over Sun's body, with his arm casually resting on Sun's abdomen. I don't know if Jay was purposely pressing on it when he curled up against Sun, but he certainly didn't pay it any mind.

The show did a pretty great job overall at adapting much of the manhwa, but it seriously downplayed the harassment and SA from Jay to Sun. In the show, the furthest it went was Jay putting Sun's hand on his clothed erection. In the manhwa, well, I don't want to get too far into it for those who are easily triggered, but there were multiple occasions in which clothes came off and orgasm was forced from Sun and achieved by Jay. In the show, it felt much more like Jay wanted to help Sun realize that he was a submissive bottom because he actually cared about Sun's well being than it did in the manhwa. In the manhwa, Jay's behavior seemed to stem far more from his own personal gratification and desire to have Sun belong to him than out of any actual concern for Sun himself. Not that Jay's behavior was selfless in the series by any means, but in the manhwa it felt like he viewed Sun as an object to own, whereas in the show it felt like he viewed Sun as a person to own. Which I'm sure to some doesn't seem like a meaningful distinction, but it does to me.

Essentially, to me, the show felt like a romance in a way that the manhwa didn't. Sun's story with the other characters and his personal growth was pretty much the same in the show and the manhwa, but the purpose of the manhwa seemed to be much more about depicting non con p*rn than anything else. And hey, I'm not gonna shame anyone for enjoying that, but it wasn't nearly as interesting to me.

And I'll admit that part of that is because in the manhwa Jay came off as a simple sadist who liked that Sun's resistance gave him an excuse to force himself on Sun. Sure, he had dominant elements, but they seemed to be mainly in service to his sadism and perception of Sun as an object. In the show, Jay came off as a Dom who also happened to be a sadist. He was stern, and, while he did clearly enjoy how Sun's resistance caused Sun emotional pain, the pain seemed more like a pleasing side effect than the purpose itself. The purpose was that he wanted to break Sun out of his cage of trauma and live a happy life. Yes, Jay wanted that happy life to be as his sub, but I think that was because he felt that that would be the happiest life Sun could have. Again, he seemed to care about Sun in a way his manhwa counterpart didn't. He wanted Sun to be his sub, not an object he owned and could get pleasure from.

Uhhh maybe a brief part of it? Why are you asking me? Can you not just check yourself?

I love how Sun is sitting there clearly getting turned on by his sadistic Dom who is having a great time fucking with the heads of all the people trying to screw him over, and then there's this guy next to him who either really doesn't get it or really does get it

This is brat behavior. Sun feels the threat from Jay and is deliberately antagonizing him in order to receive pain. Though he admittedly stops to think about if he wants to do that. He has no intention of actually disobeying an order, but briefly pretend that he will in order to get his Dom to hurt him, despite the fact that he's already in a fucking hospital room recovering from a stab wound as well as a general all over beating? Sure, why the hell not

And this? This is Jay playing along. He knows exactly what Sun is asking for and, sadist that he is, is more than happy to oblige. But after, Sun quickly agrees(btw the Spanish subtitles have him say "But it's enough that I answer, right?" which makes more sense to me)

Which satisfies the part of Jay that likes to be obeyed

So yeah, it does appear that Sun has a bit of a bratty streak. I don't know how far it extends, or how much Jay would be willing to tolerate, but Sun, masochist that he is, is apparently willing to be at least a bit bratty to get Jay to hurt him.

Sidenote, this is why sadists and masochists are so suited to each other

Also, it felt much more in character for Jay to be stern with Sun. I was initially surprised that he wasn't sitting by Sun's hospital bed when he awoke, and that he didn't go to the hospital as soon as he found out. It makes sense, though. Jay knew Sun was going to be okay, and he didn't feel like Sun deserved his immediate attention and care. As far as he was concerned, Sun had disobeyed an order that Jay considered to be extremely important. Sun could wait until Jay was good and ready to see him. I think Jay's absence itself was a form of punishment as well as the wrist cutting.