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To have Elia be okay with Rhaegar fathering another child, which would put her own children in complete danger and cause a political crisis is absolutely wild and deranged. I'm having a hard time believing Elia would go along with it. She would remember the Blackfyre rebellions and how it started over anger at a half-dornish prince being heir to the throne. For her to just be a doormat to Rhaegar and Lyanna's "love story" and not be bothered at how that would affect her, her house, her children and her people is just disgusting. The play just sounds like bad fanfiction over all, and since Martin didn't even write it, it sounds like thats all it is.
So my opinion has always been that Martin is going to justify R+L. People have gotten mad at me for it, but if you look at the text it just seems to be where this is going. I think due to the fact we haven’t gotten new content from Martin in years people in this fandom have deluded themselves into thinking this wasn’t suppose to be read as romantic. R+L is a doomed romance. That’s what it is. It’s always been that.
Now Martin has stated that the relationship between Elia and Rhaegar is “more complicated” than what fans think it was. Now whether this is going to be exact to the play? I’m not sure. The play has what? A couple hours to tell the story.
My theory is that Elia was prophecy pilled like Rhaegar, and she believed her son (Aegon) needed a third wife. Since she couldn’t provide the third wife she was okay with Lyanna providing that wife, and that some agreement was formed that after the third wife (Visenya) was born there would be no more children between R+L.
Also from what I’ve read, the play makes it out that Rhaegar had a vision of Dany and the dragons. Thus believes Dany is the daughter of him and Lyanna. So they attempting to create Dany not Jon. Which makes for an interesting AU of what if Rhaegar killed Robert… but I think nobody thought Jon would be boy. Which is why Elia isn’t think “oh the Blackfyres”.
And you don’t have to like the story, but since I’ve read the books all the way back in 2012 it was clear to me that R+L was intended to be a tragic-doomed love story.
i have a lot of thoughts on the matter but i will say that fandom moving from semi-private blogs and communities to extremely public and algorithm-driven social media was a huge mistake that has changed fandom culture for the worse
I cannot believe I have to say this but porn bots and scam bots are not harmless. Spreading them is not justifiable on the very slim chance that they are legit. These bots are used to spread viruses and malware and steal people's personal information, including bank info and social security numbers. Even if all they can get from someone is a one-time payment of money, that is still theft and a loss that many people cannot afford and in a lot of cases, that cash is used to fund things like human trafficking.
We know this. It's a proven fact with tons of studies and investigations. Scam farms are very real, very dangerous, and becoming more and more prevalent.
You cannot share posts that are almost definitely scams on the off chance that they might not be just because "it's only a few bucks!" The majority of the tumblr users making those donations are poor themselves and trying to help out in whatever way they can with the little money they have to spare. That few bucks is monumental to many of us and if we're going to give it away, then we want to know it'll actually go to organizations and people who need it, not to scammers or traffickers.
People in crisis do not make Tumblr blogs to ask for help.
(above is from the notes, absolutely agree.)
Anyone who already *is* on Tumblr and is legit asking for help will NOT DO SO by sending spam asks to random people. Or spam message. Or spam reply to a random post. Or spam-@ you.
"Vetting" is one spammer okaying another, and has become UTTERLY MEANINGLESS.
A lot of these scam bots also use heartwrenching, sometimes triggering war pictures (at this point often AI) and incredibly pressuring and guilt-baiting language. "Don't look away!" "We only need x!" etc. - This is all part of the method, to give you a bad conscience, and/or goad you into giving because it's just such a small amount.
I know this can be especially difficult with any form of elevated/divergent empathy, or moral OCD, that kind of thing, but keep telling yourself the truth: the pictures are not real. The messages are not real. This is a bot.
Don't fall for any of this.
Report for spam, block (happens automatically on desktop, you gotta manually do it on mobile), delete.
The other surprising aspect is the contrast between the lives of the people who were forced often against their will to live and work here and the sheer scale of wealth of the people who were in charge of the compound. [...]
[...] people don’t actually have to leave and can stay here for months.
However, even if they wanted to leave, they could not, as we’ve heard from people who were rescued from these centres. Some have been tortured and been subjected to unimaginable violence on a daily basis as punishment for wanting to leave or for failing to reach their daily quota in terms of money scammed from victims. There’s a huge amount of human suffering on this compound.
There are multiple types of victims, the people who are being scammed around the world, but also the people who are trafficked here held against their will and who are exposed to violence.
There are loads of other sources available if you search "scam farm." Be advised that many articles - like this one - contain personal accounts of torture and may be difficult to stomach.
"Signal boosting just to be safe" is not safety. You are handing money to the owners of trafficked slaves so they can expand their operations. If you want to help the people trapped in these compounds, donate to organizations like:
Dark Bali
Chab Dai
IOM Thailand
It may be tempting to think "but if I send money to a scammer, then I'm still helping someone who might really need help," but following that impulse means you are ultimately funding more human trafficking. Sending your funds to a group tackling the problem at its source will help get these people out and ensure you don't create more victims.
Here is a Last Week Tonight in which John Oliver goes into the human trafficking conditions of scam farms. It's also a great demonstration of how "I personally talked to this person and befriended them and have built a relationship, they are not a scammer" is not trustworthy evidence. In some instances scammers are in it for the long haul and the person you are messaging (who is, again, frequently there against their will) will have an elaborate story about their life and their struggles which they will keep up over months or years as they continue asking for money.
(the video has nothing to do with pig butchering, that is just the name for this type of scam because of how scammers build relationships and then ask people for bigger and bigger amounts of money)
If you want to help in Gaza—which is a valuable and good thing to want!—please donate to organizations like the Palestine Children’s Relief Fund or Gaza Soup Kitchen or Doctors Without Borders.
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You’re telling me the play has Rhaegar and Lyanna doing it under the red comet to conceive their “TPTWP” and Aerys R*ping Rhaella at the same exact time to try and conceive a third child 💀. His “TPTWP”…. The bit about Rhaella saying her child will be her vengeance????
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the mad king spoilers under the cut! caveat this was truly so detailed and long and at several points I was like fuck there’s no way I’m gonna remember this when I try to write up later. but I’m gonna bullet point it first and then I’ll get into more detail on the bits that interested me most + you can ask about anything you want to know more about. btw the chronology is going to be fucked I’m sorry.
Lyanna opens the play asking the old gods that she might choose her own fate. she meets Howland, and we meet her bros. they have a cute dynamic. rip. Lyanna is to be introduced to Robert at the tourney.
Robert’s tragic backstory is played up to 11 in this, they really focus on his grief for his parents and how that’s led him to become the drunk he is. btw Nedbert shippers will LOVE them in this they are very touchy w each other
Rhaegar is introduced: he is the conspirator at Harrenhal. Arthur and Oswell are his right hand men, and they’ve generally agreed that Aerys is unfit for rule + Rhaegar has been dreaming the song of ice and fire for his whole life, and wants to unite the realm
Elia and Rhaegar are??? easily the strangest part of this production. they are not a love match and never were; Elia is exhausted by his ‘dreaming’ and wants him to step up as a leader. she later alludes to the fact that she wouldn’t really care if he did take Lyanna as a second bride, but she wants him to take his role seriously. she also alludes to having had a love before Rhaegar but I didn’t catch who this was.
Rhaegar is??? Rhaegar is. he’s very earnest and wants to save the world. he’s nonetheless weirdly cold w Elia - they’re cold w each other. she gives birth to Aegon at the tourney and he’s like right. so no third kid. and then dreams of Lyanna
in another story, would’ve found early Rhaelya faintly charming. they dance together in the style of swordplay. later, Rhaegar discovers her in the woods and unmasks her as TKOTLT. he lies on her behalf to Aerys, and when they abscond it’s not shown - we go straight to the burning of Rickard.
back to Harrenhal. Aerys arrives w an open shirt bare feet and acrylics. he’s really fully lost it in this, and some of this is attributed to the trauma of Summerhall (make of that what you will). he and Rhaegar have an interesting relationship?? there’s some level of love on Aerys’ part for Rhaegar but he doesn’t trust him at all. Rhaegar wants to murder his dad straight out but when aerys literally invites him to do so he can’t. this btw takes place in a scene following Aerys’ intro where Rhaegar removes his acrylics and trims his hair to make him presentable lol
Jaime’s story is extremely close to canon in this, so he shows up to the tourney, is inducted into the KG and abruptly dismissed. his role gets bigger in act 2.
Brandon and Ashara are lovers and very romanticised in this. Barristan selmy is portrayed a weird creep in the bg more or less. also this show does NOT care for Barry generally lol he is bystanding the fuck out of proceedings.
Ashara is extremely close to Elia and Arthur. however their stories and characterisations are the ones I suspect most have been spun a bit for the play - following Rhaegar and Lyanna running off together, Elia is literally imprisoned in CHAINS with Ashara caring for her children in the Red Keep. anyway generally Elia is very politically minded in this and wants her children on the throne, with or without Rhaegar.
Rhaegar and Lyanna have an odd relationship as well, you can see in the Rhaegar/Lyanna/Elia triangle that they’ve struggled a bit to make things really emotionally click. Rhaegar and Lyanna are in love but like. on another plane kind of. they have been in each other’s dreams I think before they even met?? they establish a connection because Lyanna just ‘gets’ his song, which is the song of ice and fire and for those wondering, is basically choral Valyrian idk.
Robert and Lyanna are not enemies in this - she likes him and even pities him and doesn’t want war with him. but she’s not into him and we get the canon lines from her about his not keeping to one bed. Btw I really can’t stress enough how much they’ve hammed up Robert’s grief in this like there’s a bizarre bit where Aerys says hey I’ll unveil a to scale model of the ship your parents perished in and Robert is like oh amazing cheers and then aerys unveils a fish tank w splinters in it and he’s like there you are. idk I laughed nice one aerys
god I’m so sorry for the chronology ANYWAY. at the tower of joy, Rhaegar is actually kind of done with the prophecy and it’s Lyanna who is into it. she and Rhaegar ardently believe Jon will be TPTWP. they literally create a red comet in this for Jon to be conceived under, it’s clear they want you to understand that he is at least one of TPTWP, assuming there can be two.
BUT. bizarrely, Dany is also conceived under the same comet. Dany stans are gonna absolutely hate this so I’m sorry, but here goes!!! Rhaella is summoned to Aerys’ room, because he wants to conceive under the red comet and birth TPTWP. Jaime tries to defend her and fight the other KG (including Barry smh smh), but Rhaella (who is very arch in this, not a soft character) says she will do her duty but she will birth a daughter who will bring her vengeance, and burn the realm to cinders.
Ned and Cat’s wedding features briefly. they negotiate the terms of their marriage and then decide they want to bed one another.
Arthur and Oswell (at TOJ) are really impatient for Rhaegar to put an end to the war, but Rhaegar as I say is done w prophecy. Lyanna meanwhile has been exchanging letters with Elia (who knows where they are I forget how) and they’ve agreed together that Rhaegar needs to take action. Rhaegar agrees to go to war so long as three KG remain to protect Lyanna, who is now heavily pregnant.
anyway the trident happens. Rhaegar repeatedly offers Robert the opportunity to yield but Robert’s rage is implied to be a mix of bitterness about Lyanna and bitterness about Rhaegar’s tangential relationship with his parent’s death. you know what happens then.
back in KL. Jaime really disillusioned w Aerys. Tywin arrives at the gates and Aerys is remembering him as a bosom pal, decides to let him in against Jaime’s protests I get my kingslayer scene and I am so grateful. it’s line by line accurate and exactly as I pictured it. aerys’ actor lies on the steps of the throne for literally about 20 minutes after this I applaud him. Jaime ascends the throne, the scene w Ned happens, then Tywin marches in and you think he’s gonna hug Jaime but he actually just rips the cloak from his shoulders and chucks it over aerys which I thought was a fun adaptational bit.
Gregor (who is played by an enormous puppet) drags Elia and her children’s bodies into the throne room. Ned and Robert argue heatedly, before Ned agrees to go find him Lyanna.
Ned arrives at ToJ and this happens as it does in the show. we hear Bran calling to Ned a few times. Howland ultimately wins the duel with Arthur for Ned by getting him in the back.
Ned goes to Lyanna and she gives him Jon, asks that Ned let him live ignorant of prophecy and choose his own path. JON IS NOT NAMED BY LYANNA AT ALL. Ned later names him beneath the heart tree in winterfell, as Benjen says Jon must join the watch some day for his own safety. Cat (Robb in arms) meets Ned with Jon and is furious, storms off.
Jaime and Cersei talk. people from the wings name Jaime kingslayer and pelt him w cabbages. Jaime falls to the floor whimpering. me and several others laughed but I don’t think we were meant to. Jaime wonders why Tywin didn’t claim the throne when given the opportunity. Cersei says the throne is only a crown, Tywin wants real power. Jaime asks what Cersei wants - she says she wants it all. then she says that they should have children together and sit them on the throne. Jaime says that treason, Cersei’s like fuck it why tf do u care.
the show ends more or less with Robert demanding the deaths of Viserys and Dany, and Ned objecting. Robert criticises Ned for burying Lyanna in the North, Ned screams that Robert isn’t the only one grieving. they part ways on bad terms, and Robert goes to marry Cersei.
Victor Frankenstein after achieving the impossible and building a fucking person from scraps of the dead: Oh god, ew, ew it's ugly! Yucky! Yucky! Gross! Ew! Ew! Yucky! Yucky! Gross! Ew!
I’ve been saying for years that yes Martin will have it be that, Lyanna would be in love with Rhaegar, Rhaegar will be in love with her, shared the prophecies with Elia, Elia will be politically motivated, and be okay with Lyanna.
I’m not saying I like this. It’s just always been where I thought the story was headed. Reading the books it seems very clear that this is what Martin always intended.
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Blaming Alicent for the Dance just proves team black misogyny.
People ignoring the fact that Viserys left behind two competing lines with powerful supporters, dragons, and mutually exclusive claims.
That crisis existed long before his death.
By that logic, we could just as easily argue that Viserys "caused" the Dance by naming Rhaenyra heir, then fathering multiple legitimate sons without ever changing the succession laws or creating a binding political settlement. Or that Jaehaerys "caused" it by being a misogynistic asshole who reinforced male-preference succession through the Great Council. Or that Rhaenyra "caused" it by refusing to renounce her claim. Or that Aegon "caused" it by accepting the crown.
The reality is that no single person "caused" the Dance. It was the culmination of decades of political contradictions and a system that couldn’t accommodate two rival claimants with credible support. Once Viserys died, there was no scenario in which one side simply disappeared without enormous political consequences.
The Dance wasn’t the result of one woman’s ambition it was the predictable outcome of a succession crisis that had been building for decades.
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