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thinking about the time a former housemate said to me "hey I put these box fans in the living room because it's hot" while gesturing to the fans that I was actively sitting in front of because it was hot. and I said "okay thanks." and she kept standing there like she was waiting for something else so I said "am I blocking the airflow? do you need me to move?" and she said no I'm just letting you know they're here, in the living room, for circulation. and I said well yes, I did put that together. I am enjoying them. thank you. and she looked confused. so I asked "am I meant to do something with this information or are you just informing me?" and she said no I'm letting you know they're here because It's Hot In Here. she seemed a bit aggravated, and her emphasis seemed deliberate.
it took me asking three more times before she finally told me she wanted me to leave the fans where they are instead of moving them to my room or something. and I said oh! I had no intention of doing so but thank you for letting me know what the expectation is.
about a month later she brought up that conversation as the moment it actually clicked for her that I Am Autistic And Will Not Magically Intuit The Unspoken Request You Didn't Ask Me.
I have observed enough allistic communication to know that generally, if somebody points something out to you that you can already see or are already clearly interacting with, they are making an indirect request. but as I don't know what the request is, the only way forward is for me to guess (and likely get it wrong), or prompt the allistic to tell me clearly what they need.
however, allistics don't realize they do this, so asking them to say the unspoken surprises and confuses them. this is not their fault. allistics can be quite emotionally fragile and perceive directness as confrontation, so they habitually rely on indirect speech and coded language to preserve others' feelings. this is why they may find it difficult to be direct, even when asked. I have found that with enough gentle encouragement and reassurance that they are actually helping you, you too can achieve successful communication with your allistic friend or loved one. :)
I've seen more than a few replies saying "I'm not autistic and I wouldn't have gotten that either / your roommate's an outlier / nobody could have gotten that." fair enough, it was a pretty specific situation and it seems she genuinely didn't communicate well. as I often run into issues with indirectness, it scanned to me like all the other times I haven't been able to read between the lines. so let me give a few more examples of this phenomenon that may be more common:
"You left your dish in the sink." > the hidden request is "please clean your dish, preferably right now." since it's phrased as an observation, I don't immediately intuit the request and instead think my housemate thinks I forgot about it. so I reply "oh, I know." housemate thinks i'm sassing her and gets annoyed with me. only then do I realize she was asking me to do something about the dish in the sink.
"There's hot soup on the stove." > said to me while I was preparing a sandwich. the hidden request is "please eat the soup." since it's phrased as a statement of fact, I don't immediately intuit the request and instead think my mom thinks I didn't see the soup. I did see it, but I wanted a sandwich instead. so I reply, "I saw it, thank you." mother thinks I'm being rude and gets annoyed with me. only then do I realize she was asking me to do something about the soup (and furthermore is offended I am eating a sandwich instead).
"Your bread is on the counter." > the hidden request is "please remove your sliced bread from the counter and store it elsewhere." since it's phrased as an observation, I don't immediately intuit the request and think my roommate thinks I meant to store the bread elsewhere and forgot. when I reassure her I know it's there, she gets annoyed. only then do I realize she wants me to do something about the bread on the counter.
"You can turn up the heat, you know." > said to me while I was scrambling eggs slowly over low heat. this one really confused me because of course I knew I could turn up the heat, but I had no reason to as I was only cooking for myself. when I ignored the statement because I was focused on my task and had nothing to say, my mother added, "the eggs will cook faster if you do." sure, I'm aware of this too, but I don't want to cook them faster. I won't get the texture I want. when I reply, "I don't want to, though," mom thinks I'm being rude and gets irritated, then asks me how long I'm going to take. only then do I realize she was telling me to cook faster (because she wanted the stove), instead of simply informing me I could.
"There are donuts in the break room." > a more benign example, but similar outcome. once again I hear this as a piece of information being given to me, and thank my coworker for telling me. when I don't immediately leave my desk to get donuts because I'm finishing a task, my coworker hovers and says, "well? aren't you getting some?" only then do I realize there was actually a hidden invitation, and I was supposed to respond to the hidden part and say, "I'll come get them in a minute," or "no thank you I don't want any."
as I said, I've learned over time this is something many allistic (non-autistic) people do (as well as high masking autistic folks who have learned the social rules and wear themselves out following them rigidly). despite what I've learned, my default autistic response is pretty much always to take the words at face value (especially when I'm distracted or multitasking), before remembering I have to translate them. and while I can make a decent educated guess in most cases, sometimes I just cannot and simply ask, "what are you asking me?"
unfortunately, many allistic people suffer from an inability to take words literally just as much as they struggle to speak literally, which can further obfuscate communication. this is why I emphasize gentle reassurance that you are not criticizing them, but asking them to help you, a person in need, by clarifying their intent. people generally like to be helpful and I have had moderate success with this approach.
ONE MORE THING: I have a bias! this is very US-centric, as that's where I live. some cultures around the world are extremely direct, so autistic people in those cultures may not have the specific issue I describe here. however, every culture has its own set of social norms that include a complex combination of nonverbal visual cues, body language, tone/emphasis, and countless other unspoken expectations for what's considered polite or "normal." the double empathy problem doesn't evaporate in cultures that value direct speech. autistic people just face different problems. thank you and be good to each other
Even More examples of statements that allists in indirect cultures think are direct, pulled from the comments and my own experience (and in my case, missed until well after the fact):
"I'm putting the kettle on." (not just announcing what they're doing, they're expecting you to affirm whether you want tea or not.)
"Boy the trash is full." (not just voicing an observation, they're expecting you to take the trash out.)
"If you leave your window open, bugs will get in." (not just giving you information to decide what to do with, they're expecting you to close the window.)
Any variation of "do you want to do [unpleasant task]?" (you aren't actually supposed to say yes or no, they aren't asking your opinion, they're telling you to do it and saying you don't want to is rude.)
"Let me show you how to do something." (they want you to do it this way, they aren't just sharing an insight that you can choose to incorporate into your habits or not)
"Mm that food smells good." (might be complimenting your cooking, might be hoping you'll offer them some.)
"What are you watching/playing?" (might be curious about your interests, but might also want you to invite them to join.)
"Company's arriving in 15 minutes." (this one was from a mom to her kids and she wasn't just giving them a heads up, she was telling them to clean up.)
"Sorry my desk is such a mess." (APPARENTLY this was NOT a comment on her own desk but implying her COWORKER'S desk was messy and she wanted them to clean it??? sorry to the commenter who shared this one but that sounds genuinely deranged and you can't convince me this is common even for the most indirect allists out there)
to everyone saying this is simply a direct vs indirect culture issue, yes you can have communication breakdowns between people with differing degrees of directness, regardless of their neurodiversity status. what I am trying to illustrate is that autistic people in indirect cultures will miss these indirect cues at much higher rates than others, because we do not pick up on social norms at the same rate or proficiency as everyone else, because of our autism. essentially making us "direct-culture" people by default. some autistic folks do learn and practice those norms (some of us are literally traumatized into doing so), but it's something we often must remind ourselves to do, manually, and it can take a lot of extra effort. this is why high maskers end up in burn-out if they cannot learn to unmask btw.
(thank you also to everyone weighing in from around the world! I do hear Germany and Finland are more direct cultures so "taking things too literally" may not be as much of an issue there. this highlights the inherent bias of the DSM-V which assumes US cultural norms when evaluating for autism. another post for another day.)
(It's always possible that you actually would have understood it, because there was some context that OP, being the kind of person who misses context, had missed, and therefore cannot report in a post. This isn't a problem with OP or autism, but a general problem with every post ever which you read online about social cues and social situations)
This is like, a general problem with online posts. It's perfectly possible that this happened with OP â again, I have no way of knowing â but there is no evidence for or against it.
We shouldn't presume, especially when OP leaves out context on purpose. It's really aggravating when people show up in the notes or your post and they assume you HAD to be missing context, there is NO WAY they could possibly have said that or meant that, when the reason why the context is missing is just that you didn't want to doxx yourself.
Mr. Beast is such a fascinating public figure cause he's the only one who's willing to outright say stuff like how his success came at the cost of his joy and human passions but when you look him in the eyes it's clear that he doesn't consider this a bad thing
Actually I'm not sure you can detect any core beliefs or emotions or even the will to live on Mr. Beast's face, but that's exactly the point. He appears completely content with being a brand instead of a human being
One of my biggest âwe live on two entirely different planets (and the one youâre from needs to be scoured of life)â moments recently was when I saw several instagram comments complaining about the use of horns on the newer Mountain Goats albums
I canât keep explaining this. Itâs not any kind of -cide if youâre doing it over differing aesthetic preferences. Itâs its own new bad thing that theyâll probably name after me
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the tone of most anime gives the impression that a large portion of Japanese people view the population of Japan as mostly easily manipulated, riotous sheep just looking for an excuse to blame their betters and destroy society
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do people still do swole doge and cheems? cause that's what I see in my head whenever I hear about the European AC situation and its partisan alignments. The American left has its issues, and we're almost as stupidly anti-nuclear as the European Greens are, but as least we understand that modern heat pumps are highly energy efficient and put out the occasional manifesto about access to cooling being a human right. Meanwhile the current situation in France is like "don't want to cook to death? vote fascist!"
Everything exists in the following discursive landscape:
Climate change is fake. You don't need AC.
Climate change is real, but miniscule. We can manage its impact with technology and political solutions. All we need is some AC and better city planning.
Climate change is not man-made. The only way to deal with it is AC.
Climate change is real, and we cannot manage or mitigate its impact. AC and city planning and reforestation are a drop in the bucket.
Climate change is real, and we have to use every trick we have. We need a carbon tax, better city planning, reforestation, nuclear power, solar power, an overbuilt energy grid, battery storage, hydroelectric storage, mass public transit, AC, architecture resistant against flooding, heat waves, cold snaps, and so on.
Every policy discussion of managing the impact detracts from the real solutions that solve the root cause. Every successful measure to mitigate the impact removes political pressure for decarbonisation. Any amount money spent on managing the impact of climate change (heat-resilient trees, floodplains, cities that soak up/retain water to deal with droughts punctuated by extreme rain events) cannot be spent on carbon-neutral infrastructure.
Climate change is real, but we must only manage the impact with "green" solutions. The real point of the movement is decarbonisation and pastoralism and getting out of nuclear. Even if climate change was a big hoax, so what? What if we completely dismantle industry in the EU and we create a better world for no reason? Carbon capture and fusion power are an affront to God.
"centrism" is simply not a respectable position. Base your politics on an analysis of concrete reality rather than triangulating between left and right.
i mean of course "centrism" is mostly just an ideological veil worn by people who for some reason of cultural legitimacy don't want to admit that they actually have a right-wing politics
communists cannot understand that other people think they are wrong or that they might adopt positions based on what they think is correct or incorrect
OP: a lot of are so petulantly and dogmatically obcessed with having no radical ideals that are based in reality no matter if it causes good and improve peoples life, that you then decide to have a supposedly moderate position that turns out to actually cause extreme destruction, destroys countries and kills people, and some of you were indoctrinationed to think like that by actual extremists and dont even realise that.
Dumbo 1: you are communist tankie so you are wrong because i said so. i dont have to actually respond to what you said specifically and i will just smear you with a lazy template that always works with my followers and mutuals.
Dumbo 2 Coward's Edition: I actually do believe half the babies should die until im personally satisfied and content, it doesnt matter that my dad bombed their orphanage, poisoned their well and decades ago commitee war crimes that destabilized the country's orphanage, my dad is the USA btw and i will be greatly offended if you say any of my beliefs are bizarre, inhumane and colonialistic.
no, what dumbo 1 said was "you do not understand the positions other people hold and are fundamentally and deeply wrong about the positions other people hold"
people are not "petulantly and dogmatically obsessed with having no radical ideas that are based in reality"
they do not believe your radical ideas are based in reality
they actually and literally do not believe that your radical ideas are based in reality. you have a lot of beliefs about the world that other people do not believe to be true. they are not rationalizing, they are not dogmatic, they are not refusing to see the truth right in front of their eyes. they actually and literally do not believe your ideas to be true. they think you have incorrect factual observations of the world. they think you don't know what causes events to happen and you don't know what course of action to take.
not one single person is saying "half the babies should die until I'm personally satisfied and content." not one. if at any point you think you are talking to a person who says that, you are incorrect and did not understand them. they are saying "communists do not know how many babies are dying, do not know what causes them to die, and do not know what course of action will cause less of them to die."
other people actually do not believe you are correct.
> no, what dumbo 1 said was "you do not understand the positions other people hold and are fundamentally and deeply wrong about the positions other people hold"
you immediately resorted to childish "MY DEGENERATE OPPONENTS!!1" name calling as even if OP was a puppy stomper that somehow would make their point any less valid, anything after is sugar to make shit taste better in my opinion, specially when it doesn't actually answer for any of the points raised.
> people are not "petulantly and dogmatically obsessed with having no radical ideas that are based in reality" they do not believe your radical ideas are based in reality
sure...and? who led them to believe those radical ideas have no basis in reality? is that belief natural from their own experience, manufactured by the status quo or both in a changing order? people can have valid reasons for idiotic behaviour, that behaviour can make sense for 99 things and then be detrimental for 1 of major importance, and anyone with a microsm of rationality realising they need a different approach for 1 thing would be inclined to start to investigate the other 99 as well.
> they think you have incorrect factual observations of the world. they think you don't know what causes events to happen and you don't know what course of action to take.
and is that their actual opinion or the status quo? would that distiction matter to them? why should i believe that mindset is constantly valid and logical or even relevant to be brought up? "your opponents think lowly of you" oh wow captain obvious thats sire is unprecedented, and, but how? in what way? what is their actual disagreement with the colloquial me? is there a second or third opinion behind that disagreement as well? im at least providing the barebones rationale behind my "i think you are stupid, actually" fallacy you are doing, you just call your opposition the equivalent of a "witch" and expect everyone to be in agreement trough vibes alone it seems.
> not one single person is saying "half the babies should die until I'm personally satisfied and content." not one. if at any point you think you are talking to a person who says that, you are incorrect and did not understand them.
no, their intention, ideology and second or third opinions do change the real world effect of their supoosed moderate position:
Billionaire wealth, inequality, and the decimation of lifesaving aid. Read stories of USAID budget cuts impact and take action today.
Children immediately died after Elon Musk with Trump's approval cut aid to countries chained the USA welfare because American's wanted 5k checks in their mail that have and will never come. Elon, Trump and majority of the republican party when putting that moderate belief "that even supposed leftists should agree is reasonable, right?" in practice immediately causes trackable death and is projected to maybe cause millions more.
I know that when leftist say shit like "Calcium is important the bones" people like you immediately start to create 100s of scenarios in which a basic fact is somehow nefarious when used by your opposition, but yeah, "intentions doesnt equal result" is very basic fact that applies to this mindset, i do not care to autistically believe or theorize whatever excuse or motivation a person has for a opinion that currently and undeniably generates massacre and death, if you do not care for the communist excuses for the failures and famines caused by the governments implementing that ideology, why should i give a single shit about the Good Hearted Intentions(TM) of a random user having a opinion that when applied results in death of many?
that user decided to have a "Plain Jane", generic, catch all, PC belief, specially made so even have american liberals who view themselves as leftists can subscribe in comraderie with their conservative counterparts, and when it was put into practice, people died and nations are being decimated at alarming rates.
So if they didnt want their name atttached to this result, they shouldnt have a politically correct opinion, they should have maybe added some libtard shit like "but, maybe we also should either give reparations to these nation we are provably exploiting to this day still, or simply let them have their own sovereigty even if they decide to have a government we dont ideologically approve of", but they decided not to, they decided to have a catch all generic opinion which Elon Musk also had and could sell to people and this is the result, death, famine and destruction.
it doesnt matter if you dont like me, it doesnt matter if your honor is offended and your intentions dont matter eitheir, this modetate opinion applied exactly as it is, caused death and destruction.
You are dogmatically and petulantly defending a moderate opinion that has and will be causing death and destruction, all because you didnt want the radical opinion that has objective and material good effects, and you also need the radical believers to constantly proclaim they have a opposition who doesnt like them for some reason.
> they are saying "communists do not know how many babies are dying,
Well in Africa is AIDS and malaria, because of the USAID cuts, which the user you are white knigjting generically and plainly supports in concept.
> do not know what causes them to die,
in Africa we do, many provably African puppet leaders hand picked and who sold their mom and let famines happen for the profit of the west governments like Europe and the USA causing famines for profit, and AIDS and Malaria, which the USA cut fundings to prevent, cuts which the user wanted to happen and they did and this id the result of it, plus AIDS and Malaria.
> and do not know what course of action will cause less of them to die."
im sure they know providing African nations with the USAID again will prevent a lot babies dying from AIDS and Malaria, but idk i guess communism somehow would impede them from knowing that because reasons only you have knowledge of.
again, you don't have a actual rebuttal for OPs point of how centism is just in many cases a cozy label for people to keep themselves ignorant of the material effects of their beliefs and if the alternative radical opinions ACTUALLY has bad effects, you just keep assuming they somehow dont know their opposition doesnt like them as if thats at relevant to their opinion at all or if it would change it to begin with, and you are trying to defend the honor of a brainlet with a seemingly instictive shame to hide in the sewage that is the reply section while still needing to profess a opinion that is causing entire countries to collapse when applied to the real world as it is.
you immediately resorted to childish "MY DEGENERATE OPPONENTS!!1" name-calling
communists cannot understand that other people think they are wrong or that they might adopt positions based on what they think is correct or incorrect
You should start taking your antipsychotics again.
You do not understand what other people believe. You think you do, but you don't. You are getting angry at people speaking a language that you cannot understand because you imagine things for them to be saying.
again, that objectively does not matter, my "understanding" of "why" has someone a opinion has no bearing on the reality and of effects of their opinion. I do not care because it does not matter and does not affect reality. being a capitalist, communism, anarchist, racist, zionist or any other ideology would not change how someone views this approach. I do not care to understand the internal logic of a individual having a opinion because it does not affect the effects of that opinion, understanding why Nazis wanted to prosecute jews did not impede them doing the Holocaust, it did not impede the USA from employing Nazi scientists and it certainly and clearly doesnt matter to nations supporting the genocide of the Palestinians to learn the true Nazi motivations as they apply to Israel, Russia and any other nation doing colonialist genocide.
We are clearly on very opposite sides of the of the autism spectrum lol.
it has a bearing on you not knowing what their opinion is and you not knowing what the effects of the opinion are. you argue against opinions people do not have, and you argue that these people hold the opinions they do not have for reasons that are not true and do not make sense.
it has a bearing on you not actually knowing what is happening in the world when your assessments of what is happening in the world are contingent on the thought process and motivation of other people, which you don't actually understand. you make predictions based on the beliefs of others, but when you don't understand their beliefs, your predictions are wrong.
understanding why Nazis wanted to prosecute Jews is in fact the most important possible thing to understand if your goal is to prevent another Holocaust.
you cannot discard the concepts of "cognitive empathy" or "theory of mind" because you are bad at them. they are in fact some of the most important analytical skills you can possibly develop.
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Your artstyle is like your gut microbiome in the way its everything you consume and like and it also has all your bacteria up in it. Thats probably how that works
I recently saw a tumblr post about something that had been roundly debunked, on the same level as, let's say the Jussie Smollett hate crime hoax. Or maybe slightly less. Maybe slightly more. Somewhere between Jussie Smollett and facilitated communication.
The post was years old at this point. It was a relic from a bygone era, like that post from 2015 about our favourite science girlboss Elizabeth Holmes that people keep reblogging as a joke.
Except it wasn't a joke, and nobody in the notes had corrected anything. OP was still actively policing the notes, and some comments had been hidden/deleted.
The post wasn't only about something that had already been debunked. It was also about something that people still care deeply about. Let's take the famous "A Rape on Campus" hoax. The reporter who wrote the article wasn't in on it. She also got hoaxed. At the time, people felt really strongly about it, and even if it wasn't literally true, many said, it hints at a deeper truth about college campuses, which are especially dangerous.
Now I don't want to get bogged down in the object-level of the issue, but claims like "women who go to college are more at risk of sexual assault that woman of the same age who start working right after high school" are often thrown into the conversation, and if you tried to interrogate such claims, or the "A Rape on Campus" story, people would often find it distasteful. At the time, Jezebel wrote: 'Is the UVA Rape Story a Gigantic Hoax?' Asks Idiot.
Similarly, you can find a surprising number of people who remember the name "Kyle Rittenhouse", and when you ask them what he was notable for, the answer is often "Kyle Rittenhouse crossed state lines with a loaded gun to defend a used car dealership and shot three people" or "Kyle Rittenhouse killed three unarmed black protesters". The falsehoods are this time not something repeated by the media, like in the "A Rape on Campus" story, but something repeated over and over on social media, where many users insist that correcting the falsehoods is nit-picking irrelevant details. These same people will often continue to repeat these irrelevant details on social media â the incorrect version.
These two stories aren't all that similar. In the first story, journalists circled the wagons and doubled down. Some journalists implied (and some feminist activists stated outright) that the truth of this story should have been suppressed for the greater good. In the second story, the source of the distortions is much more nebulous. In both cases, it was about much more than a single incident, it was supposed to be emblematic of a bigger problem.
Often when there is an identity-politics element to a debunked story, the people who continue perpetuate the story will see the attempts to set the record straight as attacks, or they will try to protect themselves and attack the debunkers by opportunistically painting the debunking as politically motivated. A lot of pseudohistory that claims Native Americans came from Africa or that Cleopatra was black fits into this pattern. Even if they know that the story has been debunked already, many people somehow would find posting a link with the receipts distasteful. If you post receipts, you sound like you don't get the "emblematic of a bigger problem" part, or like you are on the other side of that bigger problem.
All this is a long-winded way to say I know why â if I reblog that post and add a correction â I will likely be blocked. I understand that this story is supposed to be emblematic of a bigger problem, and even if it didn't happen, it still says a lot about society, and if you debunk this story, you make our side look bad and give ammo to the wrong people.
But I also know that OP had posted that thing years ago, and is still policing the notes.
The thing that makes me write this vent post goes beyond that. OP had carefully screenshotted and cropped news articles. Somebody added screenshots of tweets, and links to "sources", but the sources were more tumblr posts. The main content of the post was a tumblr text post early in the reblog chain, with some screenshots of tweets. And then everybody in the reblog chain completely misrepresents the accusation and mixes it up with a different story. It was a mix of circling the wagons because this is a Very Important Topic right now on the side of OP and vaguely misremembered version of the story in the notes. It's both, in sequence! And it's still happening. People are still reblogging this post.
It would sure have helped if OP had included a link to the article, instead of a screenshot of a headline.
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