misogyny in green lantern 1990 post emerald twilight (the kyle rayner era). below the cut cause this is a lot of words. copy and pasted from discord ramblings once again, this is not the cleanest explanation but itās something. okay?
the thing is that kyleās comics, as much as i adore them, are misogynistic. itās imperative to recognize this, and from multiple angles (is it on purpose? is it the writer? is it both? how do you go about recognizing and dealing with it?)
like. it is partially a writer issue partially a character issue. i think its important to understand the context and that a lot of it is at the fault of ron marz beinf a huge misogynist. HOWEVER this is not a āonce or twice this hapoenedā thing that can be wiped, it is an attitude that is consistent in his comics. additionally, though the narrative itself is misogynistic and expects the reader to more or less agree with kyleās thought process on that, it still has other characters telling him he is in the wrong. to some degree, it is a written in the text character flaw, or at least written in the text for certain other characters to view it as a character flaw. and that is enough for me to believe it shouldnt be erased in entirely, though it should be acknowledged a lot of the reasoning behind it being ā90s misogynistic writersā.
not to even MENTION the detriment it does to his canon dynamics and how it treats the women who are repeatedly at the brunt end of this misogyny as not mattering as much to the narrative as ākeeping kyleās slate cleanā is. like you erase kyleās misogyny entirely and itās very clear that you donāt actually gaf about how that effects donnaās storyline and her direct qualms with him not giving her as much respect as he should. how it ties into them not being right for each other despite the importance of their relationship. how it ties into donnaās history of bad relationships and how despite kyleās behavior he is still at least trying. itās so hard to explain but likeā¦ tell me you donāt care about the women in his comics without telling me. theyāre characters, sure, but they donāt need to just be props to be flattened bc you canāt handle your favorite male character having a flaw that, realistically, makes a TON of sense for his character. again, this isnt Weird Author Makes Character A Pedo For A Little Bit In A Sea Of Thousands Of Comics. this is CONSISTENT and called out ON PANEL in his entire initial run. like, on top of that, heās also paired with people who donāt think that way! his various girlfriends dislike his attitude and behaviors, connor and john call him out on it, etc. itās unreasonable to say itās JUST because of the writing when other protagonists actively dislike his attitude towards women!
even though marz has the entite narrative be misogynistic it doesnt mean that is isnt a character issue in this case. and on top of that, even if it is fully a writer issue, itās such a constant feature that i think erasing his misogyny nearly in entirety does more harm than good? i donāt like that heās misogynistic, donāt get me wrong, but him being a misogynist informs the stories that happen in his comics. like i said above, what about the female character (especially donna) and their storylines that are effected by kyleās misogyny and immaturity? what about how he slowly grows throughout the comic and these ideals are lessened to some degree? you have to take into consideration that a large chunk of his character was written by the guy who made fridging a thing, yes, but that doesnāt take away from the fact that the character is also written to be misogynistic ontop of a misogynistic narrative.
ftr this is not me calling kyle a raging misogynist. i really donāt think that he needs to be portrayed as such, especially post gl1990. i do think he needs to be portrayed with acknowledgement towards his misogyny, and not just have it erased (or well. mostly erased bc comics are nearly always inherently misogynistic), i feel like having him actively unlearn it is a better solution but the comics didnāt do much of that, imo. he matured and that helped, and then it was just gone a little while later. whatever.
and iāll reiterate. i donāt like that heās a misogynist. i like the idea that he ends up growing out of a lot of those ideals, but like. itās so sanitizing and flattening to ignore a huge ass character flaw that is baked into his narrative AND how he is written to be acting.
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wow. kyle rayner and the visual identity of being mixed under the cut.
something something narrative mirroring something something the uses of identity that actually correlate with themes and the story and the Meaning something something about the disconnect to heritage but still being visibly mixed mirroring disconnect to the corps but him still visibly being a gl and initially being assumed to be a part of the corps.
in my heart heās semi ethnically ambiguous. he has ethnic facial features especiallyā nose, cheekbones, eyes. and he has really dark hair.
i Think. heās very olive toned and gets pale in the winter and tans pretty deep in the summer. he also has freckles (to me) and curls from his moms side that he does brush out consistentlyyy.
i think he passes as ethnically ambiguous and sometimes can have people be convinced heās white bc his mom really was adamant on him knowing nothing abt his dad, and considering a pretty common viewpoint of āwhite is defaultā this means he can know his dad is white bc that means he doesnt know anything abt him (even though his dad is Not White). additionally gabriel (his dad) beinf not white is pretty easily expanded into the reason gabriel is forced away from his family as a non white immigrant that gets looped into covert ops for america and etc i could yap all day about the american governmwnt using poc for their gain. Anyway. anyway he passes as ethnically ambiguous bc heās lighter olive toned most of the year except summer and bc his mom is Very White and bc kyle is pretty adamant that he is A White Boy. but people hear what they want to hear, right? so some ppl take it as āoh ok heās just an ambiguous whiteā and some people take it as āPeople Like Youā etc. i admit i also think the fact that he is sooooo obviously adhd/audhd adds to this bc people do consider the Typical adhd/autistic person to be a white boy.
i also just think from a theme and whatever perspective i kind of like him being ambiguous / not actually passing as white despite thinking he is . its smth that carries over in his story a lot that he really thinks he knows whats happening and then it turns out that people are fucking with him Again. it also contributes to why he and connor bond so fast and why heās not taken seriously literally ever and why heās so unsure of himself once he actually gets down to it. theres a lot of forced masculine bravado that he does despite beinf an intelligent and emotional person and he really pushes this āim coolā stuff, in an admittedly silly way, which masks over the fact that hes consistently calling himself an idiot and is really often overwhelmedā and isnt Actually that good at hiding how he feels even though he thinks hes coming off a certain way
like a HUGE thing for kyle is that hes putting on this Cool Guy thing and a big part of it is that he views himself like that (not entirely, but). but despite that beinf how he tries to present himself, the more genuine parts of his character continue to be present and essentially unavoidableā and those Genuine parts of him are actually a lot more valuable than the uber misogynistic i get the ladies k-man thing.
yyeahgh. but he is disconnected to his heritage despite all that.
tldr uhhh ethnically ambiguous and olive toned with ethnic features and he gets pale in winter and tanned in summer. thumbs up.
speaking my truth that indigenous characters are so uncommon that yall ignoring the indigenous coding or ignoring the influences in stories with heavy indigenous influence feels about the same as yall ignoring characters who are canonically stated to be indigenous
theres already so little mainstream or acknowledged native characters. and yet. yall cant even pay attention to the small group of canon confirmed ones? or evenā¦ the coded ones???? none of them?????
meet the artistā¦ās favorite character. mister james logan howlett, e-616, my version.
headcanons that correlate to the letters and the nude + underwear versions under the cut.
a. loganās adamantium claws and skeleton are obviously canon, but iām going to extrapolate some of canon with my thoughts on it. canonically we know they injected a āserumā of some kind into his bones before the adamantium to make his bones more porous so the metal would seep into and infuse his bones. however, i hc that the inside of his skull, his ribs and the insides of his ball joints have a very thin and patchy coating of adamantium because they are hard to reach places and so blood cells can be replenished from his bone marrow. i also believe, as told in byrneās elsewhen origin of logan (and implied in 616) that the adamantium has slight barbs on it so his muscles and etc can latch to it.
b. fun fact, logan used to almost constantly wear gloves in public settings / when he was going out, even after it was established (pretty early on) that the claws came from him, not gloves. i like this idea and i keep it. his gloves, these days, are usually quite thick to help soften punches he gives out, since his metal skeletonā¦ hurts people. really bad. even when they donāt deserve it.
c. this is just canon that they sometimes forget to draw lmao but still. logan has sharp canine teeth! when his mutation first manifested they were the sharpest they ever were, but after his baby teeth fell out and were replaced with adult ones, they slowly started to dull a bit. theyāre still incredibly sharp, but like small animals, their teeth are sharpest in their youth. obviously, his teeth āhealā when they get knocked out and they can never fully dull, but regardless. laura, gabby and akihiroās teeth are all sharper then loganās. sabretoothās are also just larger, but thatās due to a difference in mutation. logan is perfectly capable of eating raw meat but he prefers smoked meats.
d. soā¦ mixed logan. both of loganās biological parents are mixed. loganās biological father, thomas logan, helped build the howlett manor (owned by john howlett sr, loganās step father) and eventually became the gardener/groundskeeper of the howlett manor. thomas logan was mixed; blackfoot and some southern tribes heritage, as well as french fur trapper and englishman heritage. elizabeth hudson, loganās mother, was of cree and blackfoot descent, as well as having the heritage of the french fur traders that had been intermingling with those tribes for a few generations. elizabeth was much more āwhite passingā than thomas, and even eventually logan, and with her mixed father dead and white mother urging her to hide her heritage, elizabeth married loganās step fatherā (believed to be his real father for almost all of his childhood) who was a white englishman who had moved to what would become alberta about 10-15 years before logan was born, though construction of the home that would house him had started five years before that. thereās a lot more to this story but. yeah.
e. loganās military id! this is heavily based in canon fact, but yep! logan can no longer go to airports or other secure places (when not dressed as wolverine, and even then.. sometimes that doesnt work..) without it, due to metal detectors. the card describes him as being a corporal turned captain and gives some basis for theā¦ non black ops part of his military career. it very vaguely states that logan has had several reconstructions of his bones, with metal implants to support them.
f. logan doesnāt usually wear his dog tags anymore, but he tends to keep them on him. itāsā¦ weirdly comforting and grounding. similarly, he keeps a cord with two rings on it usually on his person or draped over the mirror on his truck. both itsu and marikoās rings were lost to time and school destructions, but one of the rings he has on the cord he has chosen to symbolize both of their lives and loves. the other ring is a symbol for his current lovers (cough cough ororo and kurt cough cough).
g. charms and keys. logan does have more keys than this (a LOT of them) but i didnāt want to draw them, hehe. the charm is from when laura and jubilee went dress shopping. jubilee convinced laura itād be funny if they gave it to him, and loganās just kinda kept since then.
h. though iāve used these flags to describe loganās identity, he doesnāt reallyā¦ use those labels. he might acknowledge himself as a queer or polyamorous, has probably said bisexual about himself before, but he doesnāt really care tbh. he doesnāt refer to himself as trans, but. he is. ĀÆ\_(ć)_/ĀÆ. on top of this, iāve now realized i forgot to include a note about his hormone imbalance/being intersex via PCOS. wellā¦ there you go, thereās that headcanon said here.
i. loganās only scars are the ones between his knuckles. because of the frequency at which he pops his claws, these just never fully heal up. technically, they could, but his subconscious affects it, and itās a sort of reminder that those weapons exist.
j. if you think this man binds āproperlyā you are mistaken. his breasts grow back if he tries to get them chopped, and heās honestly past caring about it, so he usually uses very thick bandages or bands over his chest. during fights (when he will go into costume) he often doubles itā bandage layer and then a compressing band over it. despite this, parts of his breasts are often exposed during fights because of fabric ripping.
k. a somewhat coping logan is a chubby logan. he is incredibly wide and muscular, and kind of build like a real strongman type, with some belly and fat rolls. there have been times where he was starving and his weight dipped drastically down, but his constant is a little chubby, and his more healthier years have been marked by being quite chubby/fat. as he always shouldāve been.
l. the x tattoo. originally, logan was given a normal tattoo of an x during the weapon x procedure. it faded quite quickly, and after they discovered he healed like a bitch, they laced the ink with adamantium to stay. a few years after escaping, logan finally cut the tattoo out of him. howeverā¦. the current version if a weirdly accurate replica by beast, duringā¦ that arc. logan canāt escape weapon x, it seems. heās yet to cut it out of himselfā itās a sort of penance to have it.
ā
want to make it clear (tho i feel like it should be obvious) this is my version of 616 logan. i have taken inspo from other universe comics, from the movies (sighā¦) and shows as well, but overall this is 616 through and through. and this isnāt all of my headcanons for him, obviously, but itās some. i wanted to go into more detail on a few of these points but uhhh. its already sm infoā¦. so i wonāt. fun fact his boxers are based off a pair he wears in.. hmm. wolverine 1988 #55? somewhere around then. i was also gonna give him matches but i struggled so hard drawing the ciggie box, the wallet and the flask that i figured iād struggle with the lil match box too. so i didnāt. and yes i pretty heavily referenced the pose. ĀÆ\_(ć)_/ĀÆ. there isnāt anything wrong with reference so <3. hope yall enjoy, esp if you read this far down.
NEVER TALK TO ME IF YOU TOTE AROUND THE IDEA THAT UNCLE IS RED HARLOW YOUTE FUCKING WRONG . THAT IS INCORRECT.
ONE. the timelines dont line up. red, logically, should only be a couple years older than arthur. his main storyline takes place when he is a young adultā but uncle is much older than both red and arthur. it doesnt make sense.
if youre curious on why i say revolver takes place in the 1880sā its simple, really. the old pistol. the desc of the old pistol states this: āThis is the pistol adopted by the U.S. Army in 1875. This particular model takes a .45 caliber. In the hands of a proficient gunner, this weapon can be fired 18 times in 1.5 minutes. The muzzle velocity of this pistol is about 810 ft. per second.ā red gets this pistol from his father at 14, when his parents are killed, 12 years before the main chunk of the game. that means he has to have been 14 POST 1875. anyway, with red being 14 in around 1876/1977, he wouldve been born in 1862 ish, whereas arthur was born in 1863 ish.
do arthur and uncle look them same age? fuck no. so!.
TWO. their personaities are so vastly different. seeing as revolver likely took place around 1888, i dont think its very reasonable that 10 years pass and hes almost fully lost his adult personality and turned into a grizzled old man. red is notably extremely independent, as wellā and i just cannot see a world where this changes so drastically, even over a ten year timespan. a person can change a lot in ten years, yes, but that goes against like all of the established info we have for red and for his 12 years of being a bounty hunter.
THREE. the scars. yes, scars fade. but redās are notably deep and quite jaggedā i would assume they were crude injuries (i have a whole hc for this but dwai). facial scarring as severe as red harlowās would not fade in the roughly 10 years that are inbetween revolver and rdr2. even if they were faded enough into the skin to barely be able to be seen, its not at all a stretch that they would still be disrupting the hair pattern and growth on his faceā which uncle doesnt have.
FOUR. indigenous! red harlow is mixedā half native, half white. he is generally pretty pale and has light colored eyes, but his facial features, imo (yes, despite the fact that its hard to see with the quality of the og game), do represent ātypicalā or common indigenous facial structures. obv uncle has more weight than red so his features would be viewed differently, but tbh, uncle just lacks those features in general. theres nothing about uncle that even hints at him being mixed, and theres not much in his story imo that would be enhanced by him being indigenous. obviouslt ānot all natives look the sameā and this applies to red and all, but i just dont even see it! plus, there is absolutely no mentions of any heritage or much understanding that i think red would have during the wapiti arcs.
FIVE. they dont talk or sound the same. blah blah time has passed and voices change. but i think this is a fair point to make. not a similar cadance or voice or anything. they dont speak the same whatsoever.
anyway ik this isnt usually a big theory and i havent seen much of it lately but i was reminded that i have talked to people who genuinely considered it as something that could be canon. which is stupid and dumb.
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hi hi hi hi I found out about Hal Jordan TODAY and am going so autistic over him itās insane can you please give me a rundown on what his deal is I think youāre the Tumblr Green Lantern guy
omg hi, insane compliment btw, tysm! i'm glad to give you a rundown!! also definitely check out @katmaatui for more hal info, red is SUPER knowledgable abt him. @rillette, @catboyollie, @halcarols, @starsapphire and @yellowcorps (along with so many others that i cant think to tag off the top of my head) have some great hal takes too! (edited the post just to tag more ppl)
apologies if this is a bit rushed/messy, i'm doing this while i smelt stone in minecraft LMAO
that being said... i think this will be a long one, so more below the cut :3
(cw for light mentions of pedophilia, abuse, canon typical violence)
okay, so hal jordan is the first human green lantern of the GREEN LANTERN CORPS. it's important to note that there was technically a human green lantern before him (alan scott, originally from earth two/the justice society, but integrated into main DC canon after crisis), but his power comes from a different source- which is a whole different ballpark that would take ages to explain, lol, so i'll move on from that.
hal was originally introduced in a showcase issue in 1959, but ended up getting a solo run in the mid 60s because of his showcase issues doing well. he's been a test pilot, middle brother, compassionate, rule follower (although being surprisingly liberal for the time) with an interesting relationship with star sapphire carol ferris since those first appearances. for the first 20 odd years of his appearances we had no information on his parents, but we got a lot from other family members, such as uncle titus, cousin hal jr (aka airwave), younger brother jim jordan and older brother jack jordan. through the 60s and 70s those members of his family were developed along with him; with the audience learning that jim's wife sue thought jim was green lantern, rather than hal, and hal himself training his cousin, hal jr.
the most known version of how hal got the ring in the first place is probably based off of geoff john's rewrite in the mid 00s, reiterating the original story of abin sur crashing onto earth and dying, leaving hal with his ring to be trained by sinestro and the rest of the glc, while also changing miniscule details that had been developed in emerald dawn 1 & 2 (which was released in the 90s, more on that later). the main premise of abin sur's crash has stayed the same, but the story around hal's current life, job, family and stability keep changing. for instance, the original comic with abin sur in showcase only showed hal getting the ring, the guardians choosing him. the first rewrite i can think of was emerald dawn volume 1, published in 1989 and continued in emerald dawn v2 (1991). here we get the classic hal watches his father die in a plane crash with carol ferris beside him as a pre adolescent, and some of the biggest implications of the mistreatment from his father. we also get introduced to hal, despite his stick to the rules, straight edge attitude, making some serious mistakes and putting people in danger and even death- with the implication of alcohol abuse. the audience HAS known hal used to be in the air force since sometime in the late 60s or early 70s (sorry, i don't remember the exact issue!), but emerald dawn shows us that hal's moved on from the air force and into test piloting, and that his mother keeps having to bail him out for making mistakes. emerald dawn vol 1 shows the abin sur moment, followed by fights that cost hal's friends life, and is followed up by sinestro training hal in emerald dawn vol 2, where we get to see the iconic scenes of hal finding out about sinestro and his... dictatorship.
along with that; how the guardians and rings are treated and hal and the glc's perception of them is vastly changed over time. in the early days of gl in the 60s, the guardians were really never to be seen. hal was repeatedly summoned to them and then had his memory almost fully wiped- only leaving a vague notion of his orders. the guardian's called hal to them at seemingly the worst times, ending up with him almost getting injured, getting in trouble at work, and even ending up jobless and homeless. the chaos of being a green lantern has been around the WHOLE time, but originally, the green lanterns didnt really... fight it. the guardian's were their masters (and even father figures, to hal) and not to be questioned. the rings in the 60s were also much more powerful, despite the yellow weakness (the yellow weakness is the notion that from about the 60s to the mid 90s the green lantern rings were completely unable to be used against anything yellow). time travel, phasing, teleporting, etc were all very viable and common things- as well as forceful shapeshifting, invisibility, mind control, mind reading, etc etc. these days, writers have dampened these powers down to mostly shooting light and constructs.
okay, it's parallax time. the emerald twilight arc from the mid 90s wasn't an arc that was as thoroughly planned out over a long period of time as it probably should have been. a lot of fans at the time (and even now) hated what happened there, and claimed it ruined hal's character entirely. i can understand why! but, at it's core, the parallax arc is a story about a broken man pushed to the limit, fully grieving his home and family (originally, he lost his brother jim in the destruction of coast city, along with a lot of other family members) and being goddamn fed up with how his "masters" treated him and the rest of the corps. the so called "perfect lantern" (no, he wasn't that much of a rebel, despite what johns wants you to think) snapped and essentially tried to gain as much power as he could to bring back coast city. when the guardians stripped him of his powers so he couldn't, hal became enraged and took down every lantern in his path, just to get to the guardians and that power. long story short, he kills the guardians and absorbs all the energy from the central power battery on oa, becoming parallax- essentially a god. this marks the start of zero hour, an event made by dc to restructure and reset; giving the comics a new generation of heroes. hal destroys the world and remakes it, but is ultimately taken down by kyle rayner, the new green lantern, with the help of the jla, jsa and associates. there are a few more run ins with parallax after this, before kyle convinces parallax/hal that he can make up for all of this by reigniting the sun after it went out- aka killing himself. hal does it, is stuck in limbo for awhile and then becomes the spectre to continue to make up for the horrible things he did as parallax. the spectre is the spirit of god's wrath and vengeance, a weapon used to drag sinners to their very own, self made hells, and scare the shit out of people. the spectre, from it's very first appearance, is a ghost like spirit that takes on a host, and is primarily described using christian terms and is used in a very... christian ideology. HOWEVER, the spectre 2001 confirms that hal is jewish (jewish mom, catholic dad) and that belief system, plus his personality as a whole, literally makes him change the spirit of vengeance into the spirit of redemption, for at least as long as they are bonded. the whole parallax to spectre arc is about grief, pain, cycles of abuse and terror, redemption and guilt. it is NOT about a fear bug that possess hal. (im so serious though, the spectre 2001 is one of the best comics ive ever read. amazing. changed my world view) but... geoff johns changed all of it, decanonized the spectre, and ruined the legacy of parallax and hal's growth as a person by releasing green lantern: rebirth in 2004/2005. this retcons hal's breakdown and journey through grief into him BEING POSSESSED BY AN ENTITY CONTROLLED BY SINESTRO THAT FULLY CHANGES PREVIOUS GREEN LANTERN CANON AND IMPLICATIONS. also, fucks up the importance of kyle becoming ion, but whatever. geoff johns writes hal (and even more so, carol) so very wrong, and change their stories so vastly in ways that go against the stories very meanings.
SIGH.
now... time to get started on some rougher stuff. hal jordan misconceptions. i'm saving that arc for last.
- hal jordan wasn't much of a rule breaker or rebel until the 70s/80s, where he BEGAN (very slowly, mind you) to be radicalized by oliver queen during denny o'neil's green lantern/green arrow. hal was painted as more of a conservative during this period (which, admittedly, kind of goes against previous canon... he's always been relatively central to liberal, not to any extremes like ollie though, lol) but gets more and more understanding of how power structures work and how lower classes are mistreated during this time- which ends up opening his eyes a bit to how shitty the guardians are. (this is helped by the guardians literally just. leaving. the green lanterns and kind of disbanding them so they can go fuck the zamarons, lmao). geoff johns tried to change this narrative into making hal a very... maverick-from-top-gun type of character, who punched his way out of the military (when, in reality, the original story during emerald knights in the late 90s was that hal had been framed for stealing a jet and was dishonorably discharged, which he took the punishment for because he knew someone had to) and hits on women constantly and gets ladies and allat (which, funnily enough hal was awful at getting carol to like him for a long time, since carol fell for green lantern rather than hal. not to mention the awkwardness of carol's proposals or hal's many, many failed relationships). hal has always been insecure and lowkey boyfailure, he is NOT a top gun maverick tom cruise sorta guy! fuck you jeremy adams!
- hes not that much of an idiot asshole. hal can be a real dick, he's had that going for him since the beginning, but he isn't what you read in batfam fics. he's not stupid and shouldn't be the laughingstock of the justice league. i assume this idea started from the obsession with batfam and the fact that the jla has quite the history of ignoring hal and his issues (as well as. all of their issues. theyre not so great at work life balance), but it's gone too far. hal isn't making fun of the robins and pissing bruce off bc of that. hal isnt fooling around on the job 24/7 (he takes being a gl and pilot VERY seriously, although he does enjoy some danger and high stakes) or slacking off to get girls. again. not top gun maverick.
- hal has not been a creep since the beginnings. hal was not weird with carol in the 60s. things were weird between them, yeah, but that's based off circumstance and the craziness of star sapphire and green lantern. he was NOT being horribly sleazy! i hate that i even need to say this, but i see this take too much not to
- going off of what was said above, lets discuss the arisia arc. if you want to be a real hal fan, this is unfortunately something you need to know about. in action comics, after crisis and the guardians left to go fuck the zamarons, most of the green lanterns fell apart and seperated. a small group went to earth- led by hal and consisting of hal, john stewart, katma tui, kilowog, salaakk, ch'p and arisia rrab. (also sometimes guy gardner, but that's complicated) previously to this arc, hal treated 14 year old arisia like a beloved little sister, welcoming her and leading her into the corps just like everyone else. things started to change once the timeline gets closer and closer to crisis, where arisia starts showing that she has a crush on hal (who is roughly 30s at this point). any advances made by arisia are shut down by hal at the beginning, because she's a child. now, it's unfortunately a common thing to just call hal a "pedophile" because of what happens in this arc- but it really isn't that simple. still weird and icky, but definitely not to the degree of which some fans like to act like it is- esp to attack hal fans for, which is... an odd choice regarding how many fucked up things every character (esp male characters) did back in the day. arisia ends up using her power ring to artifically age herself up, making her body AND MIND into that of a young adult (the comic makes this very clear). once this happens... hal stops rejecting her. they get together, they kiss. the only person in the group of green latnerns who actually has an issue with it is john (salaakk is meh about it, but he just doesn't like human-esque romance no matter what), and katma even directly encourages their relationship. kilowog ends up crushing on arisia as well, and guy gardner hits on her repeatedly throughout the whole period. eventually, hal and arisia break up, but this legacy (thank so much englehart, for wrtiting this. /sarc) is a big controversy among the comics crowd. "is hal jordan a predator?" personally, and i know a lot of friends/mutuals/other gl fans choose to erase the arisia arc entirely (versus how canon ended up retconning it to be 14 earth years is equal to that of an adult and she didn't really get super ages up, or whatever) and go with the familial relationship between hal and her. that's my preferred version! i know red (@katmaatui) has explored that version as well as an alternate version where the arisia arc did happen, and how it affects arisia in particular, which is really depressing but super interesting. anyway, it's complicated and weird and nuanced, but that whole occurence doesn't mean hal's a bad character or person (cause yk. retcons) and it's certainly not bad to like his character. (definitely ignore any guy gardner fans who try to bitch about this arc. cough cough. guy was ALSO into her and hit on her repeatedly. smfh) most people who bring this up to demonize fans didn't even read the arc, and don't know the nuance or the other weird shit that happens in it. (hal is not a horse, sigh)
OVERALL NOTES!
hal jordan is a super complicated character with an extensive history spanning from the 60s to his worse written appearances in modern age. it's okay to like any version of the character, but it is important to note the changes that have been made, the storylines butchered and lost, and more. he has quite the legacy, and he's particularly interesting as from a moral standpoint. hal's a real sweetie though, when it gets down to it! he's neurodivergent coded (imo at least.. his dad very much gets onto him for being disrtracted, hes kinda shit at social interaction (and then amazing at it the other half of the time) etc etc. "spacecase") and his dad is an abusive asshole, who he desperately doesnt want to be like but thinks he NEEDS to be like!
i genuinely and wholeheartedly think it is a massive oversight for ālogan fansā (and logan antis) to never actually address the racial and ethnic symbolism and coding within his comics. you can shit on him or love on him, sure, iāve seen it. but can you properly acknowledge the consistent themes of identity removal, self hatred, bigotry and family through an indigenous coded lens?
or likeā¦ do you not know what youāre talking about
so im reading through wolverine (2013) and i have all sorts of thoughts. first of all, logans voice is off. it gets better as the comic progresses, but also not really? his cadence is weird and he dont talk like how he talks. even under the point the comic is trying to make abt him being āfakeā i dont think it works. like, in his 80s comics theres plenty of times of him being caring and kind and compassionate and he still talks like he talks. its bullshit to imply that he cant be himself when heās trying to be kind.
more under the cut bc i ranted too hard. fair warning, my words are messy cause its early and i aint slept yet. there is a tldr at the end.
i will say i enjoy the theme of pain and guilt bc i think those are crucial parts to logans characterization no matter the version or era!! heās constantly in pain, physical and mental, as a result of his past, his actions, actions he was forced to commit, and actions of others. heās done shitty thingsā bad things, and heās a grumpy asshole, and he feels guilty over it. big part of his character.
however. however. i dont like the implication this comic has that this makes him a bad person. that is pushes the, as mystique called it, āethics are tissue paperā or whatever. logan is a hypocrite, yes, but i urge you to find a single comic character (or any media character. or real life person.) who isnt a massive hypocrite. hes done terrible things but i think this argument about how shitty and fake he is being pushed by his primary villains (who are CONSISTENTLY known to be liars and manipulators especially towards logan) is a good point of āyeah, to some degree this is true, but theyāre exaggerating to hurt him.ā obviously.
anyway i really do have some mixed feelings. theres a lot of good points about his pain and hypocrisy and assholeryā how he drags people into his shit despite trying not to. but i think its unreasonable, as the reader, to not take in the nuance of that argument, especially within the context of the marvel universe.
thereās a big point in this comic about āx-men/avengers donāt killā and how logan in particular goes against that. like, yes he does. but i donāt think that assessment is fair without the consideration of that fact that nearly every other x-man and avenger has done the same thing. of course, in reality, āwell they all do!!ā isnt a fair argument, esp about killingā but this is a comic book. it is a consistent trait of logans that he is willing to kill in most circumstances, yes, butā¦. while i wouldnt endorse that behavior in real life, it makes sense within the context of his character and universe, and i donāt think itās a fair jump into calling him a bad person for itā esp not with the decades and thousands of comics that prove his reasoning for killing, his primary victims, and his consistent effort to help when he can and not harm innocents. of course people get in the crossfire, but in a world of mutants and magic and this degree of sci-fiā in a world of superheroes and mind control virusesā the narrative does not always have room for things to be solved in a peaceful manner. obviously, in real life, i think of this sort of thing a bit differentlyā but there is even an argument to be made about drastic actions needing to take place sometimes to try to cut down on systemic oppression and issues,,,,, and logan is a NOTABLE character with anti oppression values.
which brings me to my next point.
this pissed me the fuck off. (i cut the image off on accidentā he finishes that sentence as āeveryday guy.ā) the argument that logan is a parody or fake because he was born to the upper class is a crazy take, imho. fucking insane, actually. iām only gonna speak in pure canon rn, no mention of what i think is coded into his character or headcanon. but logan, yes, was born to an upper class family in canada. who promptly died during his childhood, which was also a childhood that is noted to have him be very sick during. i think itās some bullshit to imply that because the first. up to 12 at the most. years of his life were under the care of (implied to be neglectful and possibly abusive but regardless) upper class folk that makes him a fake for seeming like an āeveryday guy.ā holy SHIT does that piss me off. again, fully basing this off canon, but logan was born in the 1880s. that means that even before 1900 he was already forced into childhood homelessness and was working in coal mines and was on the street. some bullshit to imply that a man whoās spent over a hundred years being āone of the peopleā doesnāt deserve to be looked at as anythinf but a privileged rich boy becauseā¦. heās a prickly asshole who makes mistakes and was born to rich parents.
idk i just think its kind of stupid as fuck to lean into these implications of āthis makes him a bad personā or to fall for what his villains are sayingā at least fully. of course logan is an asshole who has done bad things!! ofc!! he has so much guilt and the narrarive throughout his comics continuously pulls up that he fucks up all the time!!! the point of his character is that despite the pain and grief and the ease of falling into pattern (which, ofc he still does sometimes) he actively TRIES to be better and shit. he is stuck in a cycle of abuse (mostly to himself) but the fact that his character is about getting back up again and going harder and stronger and being better over and over and overā never getting to restā just i think proves a point that heās still actively trying. despite everything.
my words probablt dont make much sense here but thats bc im annoyed and also bc its 7 am and i havent slept yet. idk.
tldr? i think wolverine (2013) has a lot of interesting ideas, good potential, good characterzation (but bad voice) and good thought pieces. but i think the implicartions also miss a key part of the fact that logan is neither a Good Person nor a Bad Personā at least completely or consistently. i think it misses a lot of nuance and coding in his character and stories, and i think it somehow touches on his ptsd really well and also terribly. and i also think the host story nano microrganism shit is confusing and kind of dumb and the plot moves in a weird way and the cadence of the whole book is off. and i think logan isnāt a bad person and iām tired of acting like he is, esp on the context of actions that were done to him or forced his hand. i think. he is a fuck up who keeps fucking up but also keeps making strides to change the lives around him for the better. and i think wolverine (2013) wasā¦. idk. something. it was fine. good and bad. ĀÆ\_(ć)_/ĀÆ
the fact rhat the comic ends with him saying no and breaking the sword. idk. i think that says enough on why taking a āhe is a bad personā wholly w/o much nuance is a bad take. but who am i to say, yk?
