#thor meta

--My own thoughts

THIS is the exact moment when Thor had the epiphany that “open communication” (like he tried to do so many times in the past) “was not their family’s forte”. 

The lack of communication has always been equally, if not more so, Thor's fault. Who dismissed Loki's grievances as imagined slights, who didn't talk to who for a year until he need something, who said love will not protect and threatened their life if they didn't fall in? That is not communication , Thor has never invited communication, he has always, always shut it down.

Thor has given Loki a "chance" but it was always completely on Thor's terms in which he refused to understand Loki's feeling. What happened in Ragnarök is no different than what happened TWD it is the except Thor throwing a little more emotional manipulation. Awww, Thor does take after Frigga.

“Every time I threw it it will always come back to me!”

That's toxic codependency, that is tragic. That's Thor knowing he doesn't have to change or treat Loki any better and it's all the more clear he is truly bitter that Loki is his own person and not his thing to use.

Also, Hela deserved better. Because she didn't get a real chance either. Oh, did the person who was raised as a weapon and locked away in complete isolation not immediately back down after being asked once? No, guess she has to die, that sounds fair.

also @ripfic 's tags #also I'm gonna use this to further push my 'thor and odin did in fact put loki on the sane level as artifacts/objects and didn't actually #see him as a person' agenda

A (quick and dirty) Visual Analysis of What the Fuck is up with Thor's Body Language Around His Father

(With bonus Loki is also not having a good time.)

There is of course an obvious Doylist explanation for all of this but let's be honest, that's not nearly as fun as actually looking at what Thor is shown on screen doing so we're taking the Watsonian track for all of this.

Let's be honest this is all because Odin is significantly shorter than both his sons.

They love each other, obviously. And sometimes they fuckin hate each other (well, Loki sometimes hates Thor. And Thor is sometimes at least very goddamn righteously pissed off at Loki, whether he'd call it "hate" or not.)

But they do also like each other.

Thor clearly likes Loki. Enjoys and appreciates his company and admires many things about him, despite their many conflicts. And although that's a comics reference, consider Thor's "well of course I want to have my brother come with me on an adventure!" attitude when he's trying to convince his friends to go to Jotunheim with him at the beginning of Thor 2011, and it seems like it's pretty applicable to the MCU as well, at least before TR's moronic retcons.

Is it mutual, though?

... is that a real question?

Loki idolizes him, wishes he could measure up to him, thinks the sun goddamn rises and sets on Thor. "Loki felt no rancor [...] -- his stepbrother was perfect: beautiful, powerful, golden. He adored him. And if Thor repaid that adoration with little slights and humiliations, it was a price Loki was only too willing to pay for his company" (R. Rodi, Loki: Blood Brothers). Yes, another comics reference, but doesn't that also jibe with the movie depiction of Loki who clearly has a less than ideal relationship with the rest of Thor's crew but hangs out with them nonetheless because that's the only way to spend time with Thor?

Genuinely, I can't think of a better metric for liking someone than wanting to hang out with them even when the circumstances make that less than fun for other reasons. Seeing their company as satisfying even if you're both just sitting there doing something that would otherwise suck. And they both seem to have each other as first choice for that, with everyone else a very distant second if they rank at all.

Alright! Time to talk about something that is not discussed enough: jealousy between siblings that grew up in parental abuse/neglectful situations.

As someone who grew up in an abusive/neglectful environment and has siblings, + knows many people who have the same set of parameters, jealousy between siblings is sort of natural byproduct because guess what!

Parents never, never, never abuse/neglect every kid in their family in exactly the same way.

My parents were awful to my siblings in ways they weren't to me, but I'm jealous of the good things they did to for them because they didn't do that with me (i.g. when I was looking for a job last year, i got yelled at every time I failed; when my sister was looking for a job, my parents were very present for her emotionally and assured her she was doing the best she could when she didn't get the job. Their patience was absurd to me) Stuff like that + bigger things. If we were neglected/abused in exactly the same way, my sister would have gotten yelled at, too, or I would have gotten support, but it didn't happen like that because parents don't DO that, even in healthy environments, parents are never the same parents to their kids.

Likewise in ways they were awful to my siblings, they were LESS awful to me, so my siblings are jealous of that. when you're raised in an environment where you have to fight for love and scraps of affection when your parents are in a parenting mood, you are always jealous when someone manages to get the scrap. Like yes, your siblings (often) become your closest friends and confidants in that situation because there's no one else who understands it like they do, but because the abuse/neglect is so different for everyone, it causes resentment.

So here's the thing: Thor, Hela, and Loki were not abused in the same way. Loki can have an amazing, healthy relationship with Frigga (he does not, but we can pretend for a moment) and Thor is fighting for scraps of love from her. (Parents and their parenting moods are weird) and Thor can resent Loki for that because he needs a mom too. Thor can get all the attention from Odin and have a healthier (it is not healthy) relationship with Odin, and Loki can resent him for that, even though he has a "good" relationship with Frigga, because he still needs a dad. Hela can have been banished and raised as Odin's sword and have NO good or even good-ish relationships with Frigga and Odin and she resents Thor and Loki for that because she needed parents.

But is all their trauma valid even though the WAY they were traumatized is different? Yes. Can we look at them and objectively choose the "worst" victim between the three of them? No. We can't. Because different things traumatize people differently. And why should we? it's not a competition. Even though parental abuse/neglect has a tendency to pit siblings against each other despite (usually) said siblings best efforts otherwise, it is NOT A COMPETITION.

Loki has every right to be angry with Odin over what he did to him even though Odin was terrible to all his children because IT! IS! NOT! A! COMPETETION! ABOUT WHO WAS ABUSED MORE! The most suffering victim doesn't "earn" the right to be traumatized. everyone was traumatized. Everyone gets therapy. They're just going to talk about different things in therapy and THEY ARE ALL STILL TRAUMATIZED.

I guarantee to you that if they were real people, Thor would absolutely be jealous of Loki and Hela. Loki would be jealous of Hela and Thor. Hela would be jealous of Thor and Loki, EVEN THOUGH all of them are being abused, it's just the fact they're not being abused in the same way.

And this is WHY I am always in awe of their relationship in canon because it is one of the best written sibling relationships under abuse I have ever seen because it is REAL. (The Umbrella Academy s1 did this spectacularly, also, btw) Sibling relationships under abuse are so so so messy because everyone is in survival mode and it causes SO MANY issues.

and guess what! Everyone IS jealous of each other

^ Thor's resentment that he wasn't taught anything by Frigga (listen to the way he says this, he is very jealous and bitter, i WISH they had poked this more)

^ hela jealous odin replaced her with Thor

^ loki jealous that Thor got more attention than he did from their parents + people in general (all this attention wasn't a good thing) (funnily enough, for someone who is said to be SUPER jealous, this is the only time in canon I can think of Loki actually admitting that he is)

Hah! Great question, but one that better writers than me have answered before...

If we were to score it like a boxing match, I think this is one that would have to go to the judges and end up in a narrow split decision, largely depending on whose book the fight is happening.

Ever since the Asgardian Wars crossover in 1985, it's been established that Storm is Thor's peer - capable of taking up the mantle of the Goddess of Thunder and one of the few individuals worthy of wielding Mjolnir.

In later comics, people have explored the similarities and differences between Storm and Thor - and what they have generally settled is that Thor has something of an edge when it comes to his speciality of Thunder, Storm is more versatile and flexible because she can control all forms of weather.