Club Passim: Talk a little about your experiences as a female artist/all-female group in a heavily male-dominated music genre.

The Ladles: Well, to begin with, we felt it right away when we all arrived at New England Conservatory and realized how few women were in our program. It can definitely create a divide, and it's easy to feel judged for how you play and what you play. There's a sense of needing to prove yourself. Styles of music that include more improvisation tend to be more male-dominated. This is because we believe men are allowed to make more 'mistakes' than women in our society. We don't have to look very far to see examples of this. Improvisation is all about making mistakes and being vulnerable; you figure things out as you go and you will make a fool of yourself. But because women don't have that same sort of leeway, they often shy away from that level of exposure.

We're sure many women can relate to the experience of feeling pressure to present as "perfect." As we have continued to grow as musicians and The Ladles has grown as a band, it's been easier to let go of perfection in favor of taking risks and learning new things. In those moments, we certainly make "mistakes" but also feel more creative, authentic and fulfilled.

CP: Do you notice a difference in how you’re treated by other artists, venues, audiences, and industry professionals before vs. after you play?

TL: We definitely have. Condescending comments like, "Wow I'm surprised at how good you are!" We literally have had people say that. But the vast majority of audiences and venues are very supportive and treat us with respect.

CP: Do you feel you are viewed differently on stage by men v. women?

TL: I think this varies more person-to-person, rather than men vs. women. Of course, there is a measure of objectification that is inherent with performance, whether you are female or male. That being said, the presence of the "male gaze" is undeniable (obviously among straight males) when you are a woman being viewed on stage by a man.

CP: Often, all-male bands have a heavy female fanbase that buy merch, go to many shows, support, etc. Do you feel you have the male gender's support of your music in this same way? Why or why not do you think that is?

TL: Our fanbase is pretty equally male and female. The men who enjoy our music respect us as musicians and genuinely enjoy what we have to offer. In our generation, there is generally more awareness among men of respecting women (at least in the lovely bubble that we live in, in the northeast). But honestly we see it throughout the country - even in the deep south where Lucia is living these days - things have changed a lot between our generation and our parents’.

At the same time, one cannot ignore the violence and oppression that women face en masse. The abortion laws being passed in various state legislature around the country are a good indicator of the ways in which women continue to be policed. Women in every profession have to deal with these questions of respect, creative/intellectual worth, body image, and entitlement. Femme musicians just have the added experience of navigating that in public, on stage.

CP: Incredible classical artists such as classical pianist Yuja Wang use their performance attire as a way to express themselves. This provocative style of dress has been viewed as “distracting” from the music. What are your personal thoughts on women using fashion and sex-appeal as a means of bringing in more audience members and assisting in selling their music?

TL: Performers should be able to dress and act however they want! They are creating a performance, and that includes a visual aspect. If a woman is using her sex appeal, go right ahead girl! The bigger issue here is that sex appeal and skill are not mutually exclusive. A woman can be an incredible musician and not fit society's typical (and ridiculous) standards of beauty and be overlooked and ignored. On the other hand, a woman can be an incredible musician, fit some of those ridiculous standards of beauty, and therefore not be taken seriously. There's no "right" way to do this, so just be yourself and wait for everyone else to catch up.

CP: In your opinion, how can men be more aware or informed about women in the music industry?

TL: Men can include women in their projects, they can support their femme friends' shows and projects, and they can examine their own experiences! Really just talk to your female friends and listen to what they say about their experiences.

CP: What do you do in a situation when you feel disrespected by the artists/co-workers you’re surrounded by?

TL: Try to address it, as quickly as possible. It can be super hard, but it's important for both parties. Sometimes people aren't even aware that they're acting in a way that feels disrespectful to you. Learning to trust your gut and to vocalize those feelings is hard work, but really the only way to bring about change in a work environment and step into your power.

CP: What message do you want to display as a woman in folk music?

TL: We think it's important to stop making subsections of musicians - "Women in music" "All female band"  etc. We don't want to be defined as "female musicians", we just want to be musicians! We should be able to transcend that label. It can be creatively limiting to put yourself into a box that labels you a certain way. We are happy to talk about our experiences as women living in a society that still takes issue with women living public lives, in fact, it's absolutely essential dialogue that can be informative for women and men. But why not ask men to examine their experiences as well? How have they benefited from sexism? What has been easier for them because of their gender? What do they not understand about life as a femme creator? What is their experience of working with women? Establishing that expectation, that men should be examining their experience and including women in their work, is necessary for us all to move forward.

CP: What words of wisdom/encouragement do you have for aspiring women in folk?

TL: Build community and be true to yourself and your music! If there's emotion and intention behind music, it's always good music. Who cares if anyone likes it or not? If it feels like a true expression to you, then it has merit. There's a wonderful letter from Martha Graham to Agnes de Mille that captures this idea beautifully:

“There is a vitality, a life force, a quickening that is translated through you into action,
 and because there is only one of you in all time, this expression is unique. 
And if you block it, it will never exist through any other medium and be lost. 
The world will not have it. 
It is not your business to determine how good it is, nor how valuable it is, nor how it compares with other expressions. 
It is your business to keep it yours clearly and directly, to keep the channel open. 
You do not even have to believe in yourself or your work. 
You have to keep open and aware directly to the urges that motivate YOU. 
Keep the channel open.”

Thank You, Katie, Caroline, and Lucia for your thought-provoking answers. My favorite points you made were how improvisation-based genres are usually male-dominated and the reasoning behind it, and that it is everyone’s job to help establish the expectation that both men and women should reflect on their differentiating experiences with sexism in the workplace, and then talk about it more.

Thank you for reading, and stay tuned for the next installment of the ‘Women in Folk’ blog!

- Katie

Want to hear more from The Ladles? They will be performing at Club Passim on Friday, July 19th, 2019 at 8 pm. You can buy tickets online here.