what do you think of the sw/dw/mw/cw carvings discussion j2 had at chicon?
I had no idea what you were asking this morning when I first saw this, because I don’t typically watch con videos, and haven’t for years (it gets old really fast when they basically get asked the same few questions every time, you know? How’s the family? Tell us about pranks on set! etc.). So I decided to scroll my dash to see if I could figure out what they’d said before replying.
I saw a couple of posts of tweets from the con that paraphrased them, and apparently they joked about it (as they always do).
So, being a responsible human being, I decided that I needed to actually see the video for myself before forming an opinion, and not just spouting off on a couple of out of context fan interpretations of what was actually said. Unsurprisingly, they go on for like four whole minutes, far longer than those Hot Take Tweets would lead one to believe…(eta: the video was being weird, but their question starts at about 7:15 in case it’s not functioning properly still…)
Jared starts out immediately making jokes while Jensen sits there quietly. They do joke about it a bit, but then Jensen gets serious and actually talks about the decision to add Mary’s initials to the table, changing what’s been an iconic bit of imagery that’s been part of the show since 5.22. How that made him feel, and commenting that he expects a lot more of that sort of thing as the story draws to a close. And then to break that tension Jared turns it back into a joke again and they play it off.
Which is how so many con question replies go.
Does anyone reading this legit think that the story the show has been telling isn’t leading directly to Cas completing this journey into the Winchester family? Like… really? Does anyone reading this think Cas won’t have a CW on the table by the end of the series? Because Cas is still struggling with exactly how and why he belongs in the family. This was his primary worry he expressed regarding Jack, and why he didn’t say anything about his concerns for Jack in 14.18. This is literally what Cas is struggling with, and is his main character arc right now.
How many times has Dean (and Sam) declared Cas part of the family? Going back YEARS, even.
So jokes about not knowing Cas, or not thinking he’s a Winchester? Um… I don’t know how to tell anyone this, but this is one of those “this would be a major spoiler if they discussed the future of an ongoing major plot point” sort of situations. Maybe not the actual carving of a CW into the table, but everything surrounding it as we’re running up to the season finale.
In the episode we’ve just watched, seeing the MW on the table as part of Mary’s funeral pyre montage… can we as a fandom allow that to stand on its own as a memorial in this moment without making the assumption that it’s some sort of dig against Cas? Can we understand how emotionally meaningful it was for Sam and Dean to fully embrace Mary after everything they’ve been through in the last three years since she was resurrected, and that it literally took her death for them to honor her memory in this specific way.
With that context, do people understand why this was a HUGE emotional hurdle for Sam and Dean? To take this symbol of the fact that they had been alone since childhood, this pact forged between boys when they were children, in an episode where Cas (in his flashback) told Mary he was glad she was back because now her boys aren’t so alone, and Mary herself (who told Dean from before he was born that “angels are watching over you”) insisted that they were never alone (because Cas was with them all along), and for Sam and Dean to acknowledge that Mary now was a real part of their lives instead of the Sainted Mother Mary on a Pedestal that had been the focus of the revenge mission that shaped their entire lives…???
S14 so far has been focused heavily on laying the baggage of the past to rest so that Sam, Dean, and Cas really will be able to look toward the future. And this memory of Mary is something they want to carry with them accordingly. She’d been what had been missing from their entire lives. She was the reason their lives were lived out of the back seat of the Impala where they originally staked their claim with their initials. They’re not two lonely, frightened children anymore. When they staked their claim on the bunker (in 12.18– ONE EPISODE BEFORE 12.19, and The Future, where their entire concept of their legacy goes out the window, thanks Bobo again), it was framed around a discussion of “their legacy” they were building for the future. It was framed as wildly uncertain, during a time when they were once again feeling profoundly alone– Mary off with the BMoL, Cas disappeared to points unknown and not answering his phone– that Bobo bringing this back to add Mary SPECIFICALLY at this point in the story, well… this feels like Step Number One in embracing their future rather than the end of the road, you know?
That said, what were Jared and Jensen really supposed to say to this question? We all know Cas is family. They’ve driven that point home so hard for years that it’s impossible to deny. But having his initials carved into the table should be A Big Deal, and not tacked on to this moment that was about Mary.
Cas hasn’t come to that point in his personal arc where he’s fully accepted his place in the family. Yes, he acknowledges he’s part of the family, but he hasn’t really finished figuring out what that actually means for him. Even in 14.18 he demonstrated this, admitting that he still feels insecure about his place in the family, still needing to feel “useful”:
Castiel: I was scared. I had believed in Jack for so long, I believed that he was good. I knew he would be good for the world. And he was good for us. My faith in him, it never wavered, and then I-I saw what he did. It wasn’t malice. It wasn’t evil. It was like Jack saw a problem, and in his mind, he just solved it with that snake.Dean: The snake!Castiel: What he did wasn’t bad. It was the absence of good. And I saw that in him. But we were a family, and I didn’t want to lose that, so I thought I could… fix it on my own. Felt like it was my responsibility. So I left and didn’t tell you. If I could go back and just – just talk to him right then and there, I would. But I can’t, Dean. I failed you. And I failed Jack. And I failed –Dean: No, no. Don’t even say it. Don’t even say her name.
He still pinned his worthiness as a Winchester to Jack’s. Still sees himself as maybe a conditional member of the family, not really deserving to be their in his own right yet. Which is clearly The Major Thing he needs to accept for himself, you know? Let’s not rush the end of his narrative and rob him of the immense personal victory it will be for him to fully accept his place with the Winchesters for who he is, and not for what he can do for them.
