#sans analysis

What do you think was going through Sans’s head, what he was planning and what he’s goals where?

It's a weird line, and one that only keeps feeling more out of place the more we learn about Sans.

It's clear nowadays how hesitant Sans is to fight at all (especially after the UT anniversary stream) so it's incredibly unlikely that there was much weight behind the threat. Yes, he'll fight you under the most dire circumstances, but he already knows he's doomed if you don't just get bored or frustrated. I don't think he'd threaten/entice you into a fight he knows he can't win.

It was less clear at the time the game came out. How much did the promise change how he would've behaved? What are his real motivations? That sort of thing. Maybe adding to the mystery of Sans was also some of the "point" of the line being so intense. I've talked before about it being important for Sans to be a somewhat grey character for his judgment at the end to be effective.

So my guess for the context of that line now? He's not talking about himself, being eager to kill you or anything. He's saying that without Toriel caring about you first, he wouldn't have cared about you, and then maybe without Sans' slight encouragement Papyrus wouldn't have cared about you. Without Papyrus, you don't get the date with Undyne, and so on...

It's not "if I hadn't sworn otherwise, I would've killed you." It's "this world would've been crueler without someone caring." There's a Toby quote from the anniversary stream about "caring because someone I care about cares" being an important concept that I think ties in here.

The end of the Sans dinner date ends with the line "take care of yourself, kid, 'cause someone really cares about you".

It could be just Toriel he's talking about. Or-- depending on your run-- everyone in the chain, including himself.

When sans as a character is written accurately, him in genocide based things is so much more impactful than the thing he was seen as a few years ago.

Like it's not just impactful because it's accurate.It's impactful because he's just... Given up. He's tired. He doesn't care anymore.

Sure, he's sad and a bit pissed about papyrus, but he doesn't try to attack you endless your about to literally, end the world.

It's... So much more sad. He knows he can't do anything, so he doesn't try. It makes him feel even more real, and like a person. Because honestly, if someone you loved was murdered, what would you do?

You can't.. really do anything. And most people won't even TRY to do anything.

It's saddening and so much more impactful than the sans that was popularized by the fandom.

I obviously can't tell what Sans's past is all about, either, but there's at least one thing we know about it:

Papyrus is definitely a lot more judgmental than I think we give him credit for, and I have no doubt that a line gets crossed there fairly often.

But a few counterpoints:

I’m not sure Papyrus really “shames” him for anything that isn’t a joke on Sans’s part, and he never once calls him “useless.” The main thing Papyrus says about Sans is that he’s “lazy.”

Here’s the thing: Sans really likes being “lazy.” And by that I don’t mean he enjoys being depressed. I mean “laziness” is something he goes out of his way to embody. He times his breaks to get the most out of them. He takes jobs with overlapping shifts so he can slack off more efficiently by spreading out his regulated break time. He makes a show out of how hard he works at not working, and everyone who knows him is well aware of it.  I mean, his ultimate move is literally “doing nothing” and trying to weaponize slacking off based on the established rules. And his secret magical ability is literally taking shortcuts because he’s too “lazy” to walk across the map.

 It seems like playing up his laziness is one of Sans’s favorite jokes.

And the thing about jokes like that is that they always play best when paired with a straight man or a foil to react to it. Much like his groaning over his worst puns, Papyrus going on about how lazy his brother is is a way of emphasizing the joke and playing along with it without actually participating in being lazy. 

A good example of Papyrus playing along is probably Sans’s “puzzle.” Papyrus makes a big show out of all of the puzzles you encounter, only to reveal later things like how he wasn’t actually caught behind the spikes because he can step over them. And Papyrus does enough rounds and prep work that he almost definitely knew that Sans’s “puzzle” wasn’t going to be anything good, and instead of complaining about it later, Papyrus just makes a joke about how much he hates crosswords.

To me that feels more like he agreed to give Sans a little bit of room to do a puzzle, knowing it was either going to be a pleasant surprise or a funny disaster.

And all of these quotes feel more like he’s playing along with the more whimsical “isn’t my brother so cool lazy?” read, and as far as the calls go, this is about as harsh as Papyrus ever gets:

Papyrus: MY BROTHER ISN’T EVEN THERE??? WASN’T HE SLACKING OFF BY SELLING HOTDOGS? NOW HE’S SLACKING OFF FROM SLACKING OFF… TRULY MY BROTHER IS A MASTER. 

Else, with Sans in the room:Papyrus: WHAT? MY BROTHER’S ACTUALLY AT HIS STATION?BUT SOMEHOW, HE’S SELLING HOTDOGS INSTEAD?SLACKING OFF BY DOING WORK… TRULY MY BROTHER IS A MASTER. 

….

Papyrus: MY BROTHER HAS A STATION HERE.YES, HE MANS TWO STATIONS AT ONCE.AMAZING, ISN’T HE?HE SLACKS OFF TWICE AS MUCH AS NORMAL!!

NORMAL FOLKS CAN ONLY DREAM OF SUCH SLOTH…

So I personally get the vibe that Papyrus’s criticisms are more in the vein of joking WITH Sans and the two of them being roughly on the same page, not really something Sans doesn’t like.

That being said, I know how it can get when you’re used to self-depreciation but going through a rough time.  It’s very easy to internalize the jokes that we tell about ourselves, and it can be hard to find a line sometimes. Suddenly jokes that would normally be hilarious to you can end up being cutting, and people can and do go too far either way. Sans does seem to have internalized the idea that he is maybe just lazy and not depressed, and as good natured as I think Papyrus’s contributions are, I don’t doubt that they’ve done some harm.

On the other hand, as Sans himself says, sometimes its nice to have someone call you out on being lazy, even if nothing is further from the truth. 

(I’ve honestly started wondering about this when I realised you legit could flirt with half of the undertale mains Expect for sans! Like undyne with the spear at her house, or Alphys’s reaction when she mistakenly thinks the human is hitting on her (the letter) or papyrus on that date, or toriel with the phone)

I feel like no matter what the player says to Sans, he plays it cool like he expected you to say it and you're super predictable. He's unflappable. The man cannot be flapped.

Regardless of the angle of the flirt, the result would be a disappointing non-reaction and a verbal Uno reverse card. If you already went on a date with Papyrus he'd probably roast you about needing a rebound.

You also get most characters' phone numbers/contact info except his in one way or another, so maybe if you asked him for his digits, he'd play it up like you're trying to be flirty, then give you a bogus number that dials the Super Weenie Hut membership application desk.

Alternatively, dialing the number only reaches his "answering machine", that seems to be a machine except on specifically the 19th time you call, it remarks on you being kind of desperate. On the 20th and following calls it goes back to being the regular message. (Can you program a machine to do that? Is he actually just answering the phone each time to say the same thing and prank you?)

He would have 0 reaction to you flirting with other people, even if internally, he'd think you're weird and hilarious.

(Aka he didn’t kill everyone in his resets etc)

Do you think they would get along ?

It's implied if not outright stated that Flowey started by being friends with everyone first, before he got bored and started trying more violent things to remain entertained. So I think they could get along fine.

On the other hand, Flowey definitely likes Papyrus more and keeps a cool distance from Sans, so I don't think much about Sans' personality is appealing to him. It doesn't help at all that by the time of the game, he's caught on that Sans has some sort of ulterior motive regarding time travelers-- like the dynamic between a detective and the criminal he's trying to catch. But I actually don't think that's the primary reason he doesn't like Sans much.

Even if it were Asriel we were talking about before he became Flowey, he would gravitate more towards someone straightforward, principled, kind, and genuine. Sans is non-committal, secretive, purposely morally grey, and sometimes sinister. In general, it seems like Asriel admires people who are earnest and determined. He admires Frisk and Chara at different points for their unwavering convictions. He seems to be closer to Asgore, since Asgore is the first one he went to after becoming Flowey. He's attached to Papyrus as a favorite character. I could be misremembering but I thought there were lines that he thinks Undyne is cool when pushed to fight, as well.

Comparatively, he actively voices disdain for characters like Sans (with good reason), Alphys (with good reason), and even Toriel. Toriel, who he still cares about, he digs into a lot as an "idiot" who can't take care of herself. These characters often say one thing but do another-- to Flowey this probably feels "flaky" and hypocritical.

Asriel/Flowey has more of a "follower" personality until the end of the pacifist route of the game, when he comes up with his own set of ideals to live by. Until he reaches that point in his character, I think he prefers people who "have the answers, even if they're wrong". It's hard to say how he'd act in a post-pacifist setting, but I think it could be close to this awesome comic from creepyknees

Not even a little. There’s absolutely no reason within Undertale’s narrative to make Sans a child killer. There’s ALL the narrative reason to have Asgore bearing the weight on his own.

I feel really strongly against this idea because I feel like it’s ANOTHER example of people wanting to water down other characters’ traits and story beats in order to hand them over to Sans. Sans is a great character, but he isn’t the only monster in the Underground who does important things. 

The only sliver of “evidence” we get for this is his “dead where you stand” line, and I feel like that’s less about humans, and everything about the anomaly. His Genocide dialogue does not indicate he’s got any issue with humans, but every issue with the end of the world. The only other character we know that Sans fights is Flowey, the other time asshole.

If we were meant to think that this was a part of Sans’ character, it would’ve been made much more obvious. His shtick is knowing what you’re up to and nagging you about it. He says he hoped to be your friend. So either he’s full of shit when he says that, or he’s full of shit when he says you would’ve been dead without the promise.

Neither Asgore nor anyone else says that a few souls came to him mysteriously already dead. The game frames Asgore as THE murderer. There’s no reason to assume the game is intentionally misleading us in that regard.

Yeah, in canon he IS pretty neutral to Frisk. That’s like, his defining character trait besides being a goofy weirdo.

The idea though is that that coolness towards Frisk we see in the game is a product of Sans’ situation, his depression, his apathy, his pessimism.