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this is my revenge for @zinzabee amazing attack on my magirl turtles designs!!!!!!! when i tell you that i LOVE them i;m telling you that i love them, so i had to put 100000% energy into givin it back <33333
the moment i saw ur magicaraph design i KNEW i had to draw him, like it was illegal for me not to, i'm not used to draw the rise boys so this took me all dayyyyyy i really hope that you like it!!!!!
one thing that i love about rise is how vibrant all the colors are, especially on the city, so i sufered making this city in the bg and in the end it you almost cant even see it lmao, rip me
either way i really hope that ypu like tha drawing, your raph design its absolutely beautiful!!!
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I'm SO so sorry if this is addition is annoying and pedantic and not welcome, if so please feel free to ignore this, obviously you don't have to like rise!splinter if you don't want to regardless of anything and the amount that people act as though rise!splinter being a good parent means 12!splinter must be a bad one makes NO sense at all. It belies a complete lack of engagement with 2012 as a show while also being EXTREMELY unnecessarily hostile towards fellow fans. I very much agree on that point! 12!splinter deserves WAY more respect than he gets from the rise fandom at large. That being said, though, as a rise!splinter enjoyer, I'd like to present an alternate interpretation of the hugs episode thing? The reason why I don't see it as a problem, that is, which you mentioned being confused about. (If that was just rhetorical and you don't actually care why, once again, thats not a problem and please ignore .3.)
In that episode, Splinter needs to return a DVD rental and asks his kids to do it, saying that if they do, they'll get a reward. He clearly has some issues coming up with a proper reward they'd like on the spot, though, since he pauses and stutters a bunch. He starts out by saying "You'll get... HUGS, and then also-", "hugs" obviously just being the first and easiest positive thing he could think of before coming up with an actual reward. We see in other episodes that the family in general is very physically affectionate, they hug a lot, including Splinter; hugs are not actually a special occasion. Despite that, though, he's surprised when the kids don't let him finish presenting an ACTUAL reward, instead jumping at the word "hugs" and immediately going "YEAH WOO HUGS!!!" and leaving instantly. Hugs aren't actually unusual in this family, so Splinter himself didn't actually see hugs as being a proper reward for the task; the kids still TREAT hugs as being a huge and important reward, though, because they're silly lil guys with a huge flair for dramatics and they like hugs. They don't actually need a reason to return the DVD other than not wanting splinter to get a late fee, evidenced by Donnie presenting that as the reason, and getting excited over the promise of physical affection that they would very likely have gotten anyway is in character for them.
I grew up in a very huggy family, myself, and treating "hugs" as a mind-blowing reward for a small task just for fun is something I did a lot as a kid, so I didn't find the concept of that troubling at all when I watched the episode. The way I interpreted it from my own experience, making a big deal out of hugs in this case is less about affection being a thing to be EARNED, so much as it is evidence of physical affection being a way they commonly express love, and them jumping on an excuse to make a big deal out of it. I actually found it really cute how surprised Splinter was that the idea of a hug was enough to motivate them so much, since it meant he didn't realize in that moment just how much his kids do actually love him! The little smile he melts into at the end over it is really sweet.
I can absolutely understand why you and other people wouldn't like rise!splinter; he's frequently an absent parent, he's frequently outright irresponsible, and his kids don't really respect him because of both those things. That being said, though, I believe it is a bit of a mischaracterization to present their family as being starved for his affection. His ATTENTION, absolutely! But they know he loves them, I think, and they love him just as much. Kids don't become as emotionally open as the rise boys are without SOMEONE to model that behavior off of, and even though the rise turtles are LESS sheltered than other iterations have been, they /did/ still grow up as kids of a single parent living in an isolated environment with a maximum of one single friend. Even bad parents, if you believe splinter is one, can manage SOME positive things.
(I only bring this up because I really like talking about the psychology of turtles and splinters and comparing and contrasting different iterations, and I got the impression that that might also be something you might enjoy! If not and you just want to dislike rise!splinter and his stans in peace, please continue doing so. I'm also sorry this is really long and WAY too wordy, I just wanted to be very clear and as nonconfrontational as possible, being in the maybe not-very-smart position of being a person offering a contrary opinion on the internet OTL I really like your fics and all your 2012 takes I've seen are super well thought out and interesting !!)
Everybody look upon Anon's Ask and know that this is exactly how an Ask should be when presenting an argument. It's polite, considerate of my opinions on the matter, but also firm in the stance that stands opposite to mine. No belittling or rude attitude, all concise, contextual arguments, and show-consistent points to explain a different perspective compared to mine. THIS is what I like to see in my inbox.
Like, don't get me wrong, I'm glad fans can find a home to share similar opinions with me. But I'm in this to learn as much as you guys are, and sometimes this requires me to take a step back and look at my beliefs carefully. If I'm never corrected, how will I ever learn I'm wrong?
I stand by my dislike of Rise!Splinter, but I adore that his fans are able to come up into my inbox to explain their perspective like this. Thank you so much, Anon. I know this was probably anxiety-inducing for you to do, and I appreciate your level of respect and tact!
NOW THEN
Anon, in respect for you and your argument, I went back and rewatched the Late Fee episode. I realized as I was reading your argument that I didn't remember that scene very well, so I wanted to make sure that my stance was still one I was able to stand by. (This episode is problematic when it comes to how Rise!Splinter barters hugs.)
I do stand by it. My stance has not changed. Onward!
obviously you don't have to like rise!splinter if you don't want to regardless of anything and the amount that people act as though rise!splinter being a good parent means 12!splinter must be a bad one makes NO sense at all. It belies a complete lack of engagement with 2012 as a show while also being EXTREMELY unnecessarily hostile towards fellow fans.
I appreciate the way you expressed this! When I'm upset about something that a character does, I analyze that character on their own right. I do not pick up another character and compare the two of them to uplift my favorite character. If your character is actually a good person, you don't need someone 'worse' in order to prove it! It's very hostile in a fandom space like this one.
That being said, though, as a rise!splinter enjoyer, I'd like to present an alternate interpretation of the hugs episode thing? The reason why I don't see it as a problem
Again, I'd like to remind the audience that any argument presented is not against Anon. Anon has every right to enjoy Rise!Splinter as a character, and I will never fault that. Continuing!
In that episode, Splinter needs to return a DVD rental and asks his kids to do it, saying that if they do, they'll get a reward. He clearly has some issues coming up with a proper reward they'd like on the spot, though, since he pauses and stutters a bunch. He starts out by saying "You'll get... HUGS, and then also-", "hugs" obviously just being the first and easiest positive thing he could think of before coming up with an actual reward.
The problem with this analysis is that he doesn't stutter when he stays the "hugs" part. He stutters after it. He's not sure what to offer in addition to the hugs. The "hugs" comes with a satisfied smile that tells me it wasn't a grapple for something. It was a dramatic pause for a reveal, something Leo also does. He intended to say it all along.
He said he would "also throw in." Whatever else he gave them was an addition to the thing that he knew they'd want. And he couldn't come up with what else they'd want. Other than the hug.
That's how I have always seen this scene, and I admit that I have a hard time seeing it from your perspective.
We see in other episodes that the family in general is very physically affectionate, they hug a lot, including Splinter; hugs are not actually a special occasion.
I agree that they are very huggy family.
My concern is that it 'not being a special occasion' isn't true, since Mikey spends the entire episode complaining that he'll "never" get a hug from Splinter and "never" get to learn what his whiskers feel like. It could be that he's overexaggerating, but I have a hard time thinking there isn't a real underlying "I won't get a hug from him for a long time if I don't do this" considering how many times he repeats the notion. (And for me, more than once is already too many times.)
An important note: Donnie wanted the hug. Donnie, who avoided the hug with Leo and Mikey in the rottmnt movie, and makes this face when he gets random hugs from his brothers:
Which... Doesn't speak to this being a casual offer. This speaks to it being a special occasion that they are anxious not to miss out on.
Despite that, though, he's surprised when the kids don't let him finish presenting an ACTUAL reward, instead jumping at the word "hugs" and immediately going "YEAH WOO HUGS!!!" and leaving instantly. Hugs aren't actually unusual in this family, so Splinter himself didn't actually see hugs as being a proper reward for the task;
For those trying to keep up, as I said, "hugs" was the intended offer and the 'proper reward' to Splinter, and he was struggling to come up with something else that he could do.
the kids still TREAT hugs as being a huge and important reward, though, because they're silly lil guys with a huge flair for dramatics and they like hugs.
I will give you that. Part of it could be dramatics. But I'm not entirely convinced that the boys being silly goobers means that there aren't underlying issues that cause these reactions.
They don't actually need a reason to return the DVD other than not wanting splinter to get a late fee, evidenced by Donnie presenting that as the reason, and getting excited over the promise of physical affection that they would very likely have gotten anyway is in character for them.
After they have the conversation about hugs in the van, they get out and Mikey says "I forget, what happens if we don't return the DVD before midnight?" Donnie explains the late fee. Raph responds that he thinks they will begin the zombie apocalypse. Then Raph goes. "I don't remember, but we can't afford either. Now let's return this DVD so we can all go home and get HUGS!" and then the boys begin cheering and celebrating the hug again. This does not translate to them caring about the late fee or potential zombie apocalypse.
Their focus is on the hugs. That's the goal the episode is drilling in.
I grew up in a very huggy family, myself, and treating "hugs" as a mind-blowing reward for a small task just for fun is something I did a lot as a kid, so I didn't find the concept of that troubling at all when I watched the episode. The way I interpreted it from my own experience, making a big deal out of hugs in this case is less about affection being a thing to be EARNED, so much as it is evidence of physical affection being a way they commonly express love, and them jumping on an excuse to make a big deal out of it.
I acknowledge your experience and the wholesome memories that it brings to you. Perhaps this is a part of the puzzle that I need in order to see it from your perspective, but I don't have it. I come from a moderately physically affectionate family. If my mother used "hugs" as a way to get me to do something at any point after I was ten, I'd probably ask her for a candy bar instead. Hugs are something that I take when I want (usually before I leave) and then move on.
From that experience, the idea of him offering it and them desperately aiming to earn it concerns me. And I can't just write it off as 'it's a cartoon and exaggerated' because then we wouldn't be allowed to take anything in it seriously. That's not the proper way to analyze media.
I actually found it really cute how surprised Splinter was that the idea of a hug was enough to motivate them so much, since it meant he didn't realize in that moment just how much his kids do actually love him! The little smile he melts into at the end over it is really sweet.
He didn't come off as surprised to me? More content with things
And the fact that he said "I love all my sons" in a transactional hug while forgetting that he only has four sons... Um. I'm not comfortable with a lot about that for a number of different reasons.
I can absolutely understand why you and other people wouldn't like rise!splinter; he's frequently an absent parent, he's frequently outright irresponsible, and his kids don't really respect him because of both those things. That being said, though, I believe it is a bit of a mischaracterization to present their family as being starved for his affection.
I would never say that they were starved for his affection, but I do think that he hasn't raised them to believe that they can just have it. As an example: as teens, we'd go to my dad while he's chilling and be like "can you play this board game with us?" and he'd put down what he's doing and go play with us. I don't think his sons would have the same experiences. I think it's the same thing with hugs.
He uses the physical affection as a means to get them to do something for him. He tells his sons that he loves them after they have completed the task for him. That's not positively reinforcing behavior?
That reinforces "do things for me and I love you."
It's... Concerning. It makes me uncomfortable to watch.
Kids don't become as emotionally open as the rise boys are without SOMEONE to model that behavior off of, and even though the rise turtles are LESS sheltered than other iterations have been, they /did/ still grow up as kids of a single parent living in an isolated environment with a maximum of one single friend. Even bad parents, if you believe splinter is one, can manage SOME positive things.
My concern is that they are allowed to leave the lair whenever they want to and go do whatever they want, and Splinter spends most of the first series knowing absolutely nothing about where they are or who they're around. (Like how they fought Meat Sweats.) I'm guessing they weren't isolated and had more than just April and Splinter to model off of, and that they spent a lot of time mimicking one another. After all, Donnie can go to April's school and talk to people, no problem. She's probably just the only person that they trust for an extended relationship.
Additionally, Raph was confirmed as the parental role model, and he loves physical touch- he's constantly picking up his siblings or hugging them or carrying them. If I had to guess, the rest of them are role modeling off of him and April, and April is role modeling off her parents. Because I can't find canon proof that Splinter spends enough time around them and is that free with physical affection.
Even when they're around him, they're sitting or standing near his chair, sometimes with an armrest between them.
I think Raph's brothers are modeling Raph, and Raph gets the reinforcement he needs to be huggy from them. At least, that's what I've been able to interpret from what I've seen.
(I only bring this up because I really like talking about the psychology of turtles and splinters and comparing and contrasting different iterations, and I got the impression that that might also be something you might enjoy!
It really is! Thank you so much for giving me this chance to explain what I'm seeing and why I feel the way I do! It's perfectly okay if I have not convinced you or changed your mind. I'm just glad to have this chance to check myself and reaffirm why I believe what I do!
If not and you just want to dislike rise!splinter and his stans in peace, please continue doing so.
Alas, this will be my perception going forward. (Not the stans part. Just the Splinter part.) Sorry :(
I'm also sorry this is really long and WAY too wordy, I just wanted to be very clear and as nonconfrontational as possible, being in the maybe not-very-smart position of being a person offering a contrary opinion on the internet OTL
Nahhh, these were some solid takes built on solid contextual consideration! I think you had good reason to think them, and I'm grateful you shared. You definitely gave me some alternate perspectives to consider while I'm going forward.
I really like your fics and all your 2012 takes I've seen are super well thought out and interesting !!)
Aww, thank you, Anon! I'm so glad! And hopefully you follow Mismatched Twins, because that will have some fluffy dad Rise!Splinter moments within it that I'm very proud of. (What? I don't like him. That doesn't mean he isn't canonically caring and wholesome at times.)
