#rape-

wendibird replied to your post “I told you what you wanted to hear” SO CAN WE FINALLY STOP PRETENDING...”

A lot of things have changed about Lucifer over the years. Back in Season 5, he didn't lie to his vessels when he told them what he really wanted from them. (True, he appeared in the form of a deceased loved one at first, but he did wind up telling them the truth before they agreed.) Later, in Season 12, he tells them any lie that will get them to say yes. But then, he also made it clear that he just didn't give two shits anymore. He honestly does NOT care.

But that being said, characters do change over time based on what happens to them. If they DON'T change, they become stagnant. (And even when they do change they can still stagnate.) And he still made these choices. And it still boiled down to him wanting his shiny new toy, as though it could fill the hole in his existence. Because he never realized that the truest way to feel love is to give it, and all he ever wanted was to have it given to him.

I think he DID genuinely want Jack to love him. But that doesn't change the fact that when it reached the point where his own actions were found out, and that it turned Jack against him for good, he decided he was okay with harming his Son. It proves that his affection was coming from selfishness. (Though, it still doesn't stop some fans from defending him, but what can you do?)

Uhm, yeah, no.

“True, he appeared in the form of a deceased loved one at first, but he did wind up telling them the truth before they agreed.” that is still... that is still lying. You realise that this is still very much what lying is, right.

He appeared to Nick and to Sam as deceased loved ones in order to manipulate them. He told Nick that he would get “justice and peace” when the truth was that he simply needed a vessel temporarily until he could get Sam. That was a lie.

He told Sam he wouldn’t hurt him or trick him - right after appearing to Sam as Jess and telling him that he will obtain Sam’s consent to possession eventually, and if Sam killed himself to avoid agreeing, Lucifer would just bring Sam back. That is lying, tricking, and hurting him.

When Sam eventually does agree to possession, Lucifer manipulates Sam’s feelings of otherness, self-doubt, and attempts to convince Sam to kill people. That’s manipulative.

Lucifer beats Dean up in Swan Song, which he supposedly tried to avoid for Sam’s sake - but he still does it, and expresses glee that Sam can feel his body hurt Dean without being in control of his actions. That’s lying and hurting Sam.

s6 and 7 deal with the fallout of Lucifer torturing Sam in the Cage. Now, I’m not sure what your definition of not lying and not hurting people is, but it’s not that. He took his anger out on Sam for an extremely long period of time, when, for all intends and purposes, the four of them could have sat down to play cards. There’s no rule that said, hey, if you trick me back into the Cage, I’m gonna have torture you. Yet here we are.

The entire premise of the first half of s11 was Lucifer lying to and manipulating Sam. 11.10 featured physical and emotional violence towards Sam. Pretending to be Castiel while possessing him and using Sam’s trust in Castiel to hurt him was lying, manipulating, and hurting Sam.

Not only did he flat out lie to his vessels in s12, he also deliberately lied to Kelly and raped her to father a nephilim.

From the first time he encountered Jack, Lucifer lied to him, and tried to manipulate him. This wasn't about love at any point. It was about power and entitlement. If this had been about love, he wouldn’t have dropped Jack like a hot potato as soon as Jack stopped behaving the way Lucifer wanted. He felt entitled to Jack due to being his biological father, just like he felt entitled to Sam due to Sam being his true vessel.

Since s5, and up to s13, Lucifer has always claimed to be a poor, mistreated victim and used that to justify all of his actions, blamed G-d and everyone but himself, even though s11 established that this, too, was not true. He continued this lie up to s13 in every interaction he had with others.