#pthumerians

This one is a reply on ask from @bobbyzombiegg that I decided to put here because I really keep forgetting to use THIS blog for lore and not my personal/shitposts one...

I know, and this is such a good observation! I am glad that you've noticed what else connects Burial Blade and Blade of Mercy! Even better - whereas Burial Blade severs the ties of a person with the Dream, Blade of Mercy, in a way, helps to create it!

The interesting thing about these blades is that, of course, they must have been created before the conception of the Hunter's Dream! It makes it oddly coincidental that both weapons are useful for the cycle of Dream and Hunt, doesn't it? Blade of Mercy is at least believed to contribute to this as of now; the more we hunt the more messengers get added in the Hunter's Dream, so, perhaps, Blade of Mercy is not necessary! My personal interpretation of this is as Paleblood Hunter, our character has the privilege otherwise special for these weapons! Regardless of which weapon they use, they can send those they killed to be messengers (or add them in the cycle of the hunt, like how Henryk or Yamamura will become summonable after we kill them)!

Still, it starts to look like too much was planned ahead? Blade of Mercy said to be made in an old workshop would imply Old Hunters, likely created by Gehrman himself, from the same material as his own weapon! But I think the answer here is that Messengers, something akin to Hunter's Dream and similar weapons existed since Pthumerian times!

Starting with the weapons observation here! Pthumerian Descendant, interestingly, displays the similar style of transforming their blade into two same as how Blade of Mercy does it! Meanwhile, Gehrman's blade is fashioned similarly to Mergo's Wet Nurse's blades! In isolation, I would not think this means anything.. but crows, according to Hunters of Hunters lore, ARE connected with taking the souls and passing them into Dream realm, which is also Nightmare realm!

(Link to my other post explaining why Vilebloods descend from Pthumerians ( x ) in case someone who doesn't know already finds this post)

Wet Nurse herself is very bird-like (crow-like, specifically), and very coincidentally, Baneful Chanters pray to those who "have no blood" as those who'd have enough power to curse the hunters (which is to ensure they go in the Nightmare realm). Wet Nurse not only coincidentally fuels at least one section of Nightmare by nurturing Mergo, the center of it, but also, Nightmare realm has Winter Lanterns whose heads are made of Messengers!

So we have: Wet Nurse already being quite Pthumerian with her accessories and fighting style, Pthumerians and their descendants (down to Cainhurst!) honoring symbolism of crows, Yharnam (a city named after Queen Yharnam, after all) having depiction of BIRD-like Messenger in its oldest part, superstition about crows taking souls of the murdered in Hunter's Dream, people praying to "bloodless ones" to take the souls into Nightmare instead + evidence of it happening with Winter Lanterns.. In my opinion it is fair to assume that the weapons Gehrman created had a pre-existing inspiration and their similarity to pre-existing Pthumerian weapons is not coincidental!

Alright, first - I want a Bloodborne prequel where I could make a Pthumerian Paleblood Hunter. Second, as you can see, concept of the Messengers, the "Hunter" symbol/rune (depiction of the hanged man of course), and even the MOONLIGHT Sword were a thing since Pthumerian times! (It is safe to assume Ludwig found this sword somewhere in the Dungeons, as obtaining Radiant Sword Hunter badge is what lets you buy Tomb Prospector set!)

^ The note already mentioning Laurence associating with Moon Presence, THE Great One of the Hunt and the Dream, is found in Byrgenwerth already! Basically? Without maybe predicting that he would be trapped in the Hunter's Dream one day, Gehrman already knew what he was doing with the weapons.

Conclusion: there was the clear idea in mind! Blade of Mercy, intended to kill people from the start, immortalises the hunters as the HUNTERS and brings them in "Heaven" of Moon Presence, before they turned into beasts, whereas Burial Blade, initially intended for hunting everyone that was no longer human (for example, poor Fish People), ensures they, on the contrary, never go to "Heaven". What later serves to sever a Hunter from the Hunter's Dream initially intended to sever non-humans from it, in a way sentensing them to "Hell". :) Gehrman is a fun person.

+ Also some bonus observations regarding the topic of Yharnamites still continuing Pthumerian traditions, likely brought back because of Byrgenwerth, and then Healing Church, diving into dungeons:

(Context for those that didn't play Bloodborne because Sony hates you and you in particular: both this trap in the dungeons and this bath in Yahar'gul warp you in another area, connected by the circle of candles)

Forbidden Woods, surrounding Byrgenwerth, are full of formations that resemble the Tonsil Stone very much! However, when you examine the woods, you will see that sometimes there are body parts near these "heads"! This could be another case of petrification upon strong arcane impact, similarly to petrified body of Rom near Ebrietas, to petrified bodies of other Kin in Upper Cathedrals covered by fabric, bodies of victims in Yahar'gul, all that!

Were they people living in the woods that started to turn into Kin (like Garden of Eyes that are also found in Byrgenwerth) but didn't live until petrification, or were they baby Great Ones born only to instantly die? I am not sure. Both can work.

But, snakes are an interesting clue here. Besides Forbidden Woods, they are only also found in Hintertombs - a dumping ground for corpses of Pthumeru Ihyll that became venomous! Forgotten Madman, who is a former Choir member as he uses A Call Beyond, is found in these dungeons + getting Cosmic Watcher Badge is what lets you buy Poisonous Knife. Doesn't it look strange for Choir members to pick so much interest in this? Snake infestation might be a strange result of burying cosmic Kin in the ground, a corruption of what would normally be a process of multiple parasites/phantasms settling in a corpse of a cosmic being, OR someone affiliated with one! We do have precedents:

Cosmic creatures, "downgraded" and "filthied", becoming something eartly instead, such as snakes! One of them was able to raise human children (Madaras twins), so sure they are unusual!

So, what I am trying to say is, it is possible that Tonsil Stone is a result of burial of a dead (and rapidly petrifying) cosmic Kin, one that was yet not rotted like what we see in Forbidden Woods! Maybe even more directly so, it is a petrified skull of a cosmic Kin, most likely of Amygdala's kind, and a "meteorite" in the sense of them coming from space! So, creating weapons both of which are connected with burial ritual from the buried Kin is appropriate! This or similar technology maybe also was discovered by Pthumerians long ago, so examining Hintertombs was a great help with figuring what material to use for Burial Blade and Blade of Mercy!

^ These disturbing dead cosmic Kin fetuses are found in Byrgenwerth in two forms: one depicts a petrified corpse, something we already knows happens with Kin, such as Rom and eldrich creatures in Upper Cathedral. Another is dead, rotting, showing horns, and has multiple tiny skulls on its head! The latter one gets my point about corpses of Kin, or maybe anyone touched by Kin, sprouting smaller life forms from within. People infected by snake virus sprout several snakes from their heads, rather than turning into a snake or something!

It is entirely possible that Byrgenwerth used to bury creatures like this in the grounds around the college, and that those gigantic graves in Forbidden Woods were for much larger Great Ones: "Hunt the Great Ones. Hunt the Great Ones." note is found in Byrgenwerth as well! They might have been able to resist the full rotting that results into snakes due to their size and development, hence their graves still show sluggish phantasms. Burying other ones, on the other hand, was a big mistake. Or, should I say.... a GRAVE mista- *gets sniped*

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The Pthumerians were/are an ancient race of humanoids who lived deep below ground in Pthumeru Ithyll, or the Chalice Dungeons. It is unclear if they always lived down there or if they merely moved down there and then evolved into their current form from one that looked more human, but what is known is that they were the servants of the Great Ones. Not just servants, but likely a slave race whose sole purpose was to care for the Great Ones and expand the Chalice Dungeons endlessly.

Regardless of whether or not the Pthumerians originated above or underground, descendants of them can be found in both orientations. It seems an ancient branch of Pthumerians, or perhaps several branches, eventually breached the surface and subsequently created Yharnam and Cainhurst. There could be other locations in the world of Bloodborne that were created by the Pthumerians as well, as we don't know just how far the tombs sprawl beneath the surface, and it is very likely that some of their descendants could have simply traveled to new locations as well.

The Executioners are said to be from a foreign land, and among their ranks are the likes of Martyr Logarius, who is notably very Pthumerian in appearance. This could mean that there are more Pthumerian-descended civilizations out there, or that Logarius was simply a member of the Healing Church, which also employs (or really seems to enslave) many of these people themselves, and Logarius was simply appointed by them to lead the Eexecutioners during their siege and genocide of Cainhurst.

I mentioned Logarius having a very Pthumerian appearance, but what does that mean exactly? Throughout the game, we can encounter many Pthumerians. Each of these individuals have incredibly pale skin, straight up alabaster in color in some cases, with sunken, black eyes and somewhat strange mouths. Build-wise, Pthumerians have a number of shapes they can take, with some being rather tiny and frail, but most of them seem to be quite large, with their height being anywhere from slightly taller than a hunter, to almost twice as tall, to being literal giants. The variations between these Pthumerians could indicate that there are different branches, something like humans having once had homo sapiens, neanderthal, and denisovans, but they could also simply just be prone to intense levels of diversity, or even be affected by arcane arts or the influence of the Great Ones they serve.

The arcane arts seem to be a very important thing to the Pthumerians, as the tombs they live in are full of items and alters for ritual. Not only that, but we can find many Pthumerian witches who will assault us with magic. The Bell Ringing Women, who also seem to be Pthumerian, can also summon enemies to attack us. I am inclined to believe that the enemies they summon are the spirits of the dead and that the Bell Ringing Women act as necromancers, though it is also possible that these enemies are from different realities as well, similar to how player invasions work. Another point towards necromancy however is the fact that, within the dungeons, we can find several Pthumerian giants who are labeled as being undead. They look far different from the living ones we see above ground and are often adorned with candles, making them look like walking ritual alters. We can also find the occasional ghost wandering the dark corridors of the tombs.

I mentioned earlier that the peoples of Yharnam and Cainhurst are descended from the Pthumerians, but how do we know that? Well, for Yharnamites, it is much more obvious. Yharnamites have a distinct look about them. It isn't quite the same as that of the Pthumerians, but it is still quite different than the average person, like the hunters we meet from foreign lands. Yharnamites are tall, lanky, with seemingly mismatched proportions. These traits could be chalked up to the affects of beasthood and the Old Blood, but it seems odd that characters seemingly unaffected by the plague, such as the old woman or distrustful man we can send to Oedon Chapel still have these characteristics. On top of that, the city of Yharnam itself is named after Yharnam, the Pthumerian Queen.

"Yharnam" has been posited to be a name passed down from queen to queen. I think this is likely true and that the name is a thing of power and ritual. When a Pthumerian woman becomes queen, she also becomes Yharnam. The city was thus eventually named after the Pthumerian queens, though its possible its people have forgotten the origin of the name, especially with the Healing Church's take over and the burning and abandonment of Old Yharnam - Old Yharnam having an aesthetic and culture that seems much more in line with those below ground than those of Central Yharnam and the Cathedral Ward.

Old Yharnam is home to many statues that are bestial in nature and, while other parts of Yharnam aren't exactly strangers to fucked up looking statues themselves, Old Yharnam's still feel much more in line with what we find underground; much more archaic and dark. On top of that, the most damning evidence is the Church of the Good Chalice, where we can find the first Pthumerian Chalice on an alter. We can also find ritual blood on a separate alter. These two findings offer a direct link to the tombs, and thus to the Pthumerians, and paint the other oddities of Old Yharnam under a much more suspicious and Pthumerian-themed light.

But what about Cainhurst? Cainhurst's connections aren't as clear cut, but I believe the clues are there. For starters, the people of Cainhurst, the Vilebloods, are even more Pthumerian in appearance than the Yharnamites are. The people were see have drastic changes in sizes, some being short and hunched over little goblin men, kind of like the Pthumerian leg witches we see in the tombs, while the ghosts of victims we see are rather tall. These ghosts are also incredibly pale like the Pthumerians, but they are also ghosts, so who knows which is the cause.

Queen Annalise, on the other hand, is not a ghost, yet still bears these traits. Her skin is pale and grey, and almost shiny. Now, Annalise being a queen who isn't named Yharnam could be a flaw in this theory, but the people of Cainhurst and the people of Yharnam are enemies, so it makes sense that they wouldn't keep the same name. On top of that, some have posited the idea of a Pthumerian civil war, as thousands of corpses and ancient sets of weapons and armor can be found underground. These could all be from explorers, but the sheer number of these corpses and items makes it seem unlikely that they are JUST from explorers, possibly indicating that the split between Cainhurst and Yharnam was a lot further back in time.

Other possible links to the Pthumerians are the fact that we can find gargoyles and blood lickers in Cainhurst. Now, blood lickers can be found in other places as well, such as in the Hunter's Nightmare, as the creatures are simply attracted to blood. Blood lickers very well could be some form of interdimensional beings who just seek out blood, since the ones we encounter in the Chalice Dungeons mainly come out when we kill an enemy via visceral attack, but the fact that in the base game, these were the only two places we could find them could still be a link.

The gargoyles on the other hand are not found in the DLC, nor anywhere else. They can only be found in the Chalice Dungeons and Cainhurst. The gargoyles are rather humanoid in nature, so it is possible that they themselves are another form of Pthumerian. Alternatively, they could be beasthood afflicted Pthumerians, as beasthood affects people in a number of ways and the people of the dungeons did commune with the Old Blood. These beasthood afflicted Pthumerians could have been subsequently used as guard dogs, seeing as they tend to wait in inconspicuous places to jump out and grab any intruder who passes by.

Another potential connection is the fact that, when we arrive at Cainhurst, the courtyard we first enter has a strange hole. A sloping path leads down into the ground but seems to dead end. I personally believe this is, or was, an entrance to the dungeons that has since been sealed off and possibly where the branch that would become the Vilebloods first ascended. We can find a similar location in Yharnam, that being a cave below Iosefka's Clinic and the Forbidden Woods that is full of poison water and Pthumerian Giants who do not seem to be under the control of the Healing Church. Notably, these two locations also features the annoying worm enemies, which can also be found within Loran Silverbeasts where killed. Loran Silverbeasts can be found within the dungeons, and within the nightmare, and could possibly link Loran to the Pthumerians as well.

It is also interesting to note the fact that the streets of Yharnam are filled with coffins. This very well could be due to the plague that is ravaging the city, but it could also be one of the few remaining remnants of Pthumerian culture that hasn't been fully abolished yet; that connection to death and necromancy. The School of Mensis in Yahar'Gul seems to use necromancy themselves, as we can find abominations like wolves made of corpses, or the Cramped Caskets that are sentient masses of limbs that are fused together and inhabiting, well, cramped caskets. Yahar'Gul is also where we fight the One Reborn, a failed attempt at creating a Great One, or a vessel for a Great One, who is also made up of corpses and aided by Bell Ringing women, who I already discussed the connections to necromancy and Pthumerians. Yahar'Gul is also where the Snatchers reside or bring victims to, Snatchers once again being very clearly Pthumerian in appearance and located within the dungeons.

Okay OKAY, this time even though the video is long there is not much to see as I've already seen most of this (and in even better quality, like that one infamous Blender watching video by Sinclair Lore) However, a few funny things:

Not only Labyrinth Warrior is modelled under these clothes, but also he is jacked as fuc fdjsjhsdf

This is also a REALLY rotted body :/

Abhorrent Beast is not only a Wallmart Omen, but also has TWO tails, strangely enough! At very different layers!

Since the Bloodletting Beast that still has head also has its back torn, maybe something similar happened and whatever escaped the back was the source of that second tail?

This creature

Again, concept was waaaaay more sick!

Labyrinth Madmen are also fully modeled under their clothes! THEY are twinks tho, but have some interesting wounds

Also REALLY cool detail of their swords being broken version of the swords that Labyrinth Warriors are wielding!

Also twink

@jarognieva Already posted compillation of good shots from this video of Yharnam in this ( x ) post for anyone who wants to draw her, just in case!

I REALLY adore the detail that her bloody attack does create Frenzy Spear though! Makes sense, since these ARE made of blood!

always thinking about digimon partners....

my bloodborne ocs <3 and a couple of not ocs

some of the evo lines i was thinking of maaaybe

dorumon -> dorugamon -> dorugreymon

hagurumon -> flamedramon(fighting)/raidramon(riding) -> extyrannomon -> goldnumemon

skin tones vary from snow white, to greys and blues. they have wide mouths with sharp teeth in front with molars in back. much of what they eat is the vegetation and fungi that grows underground, and rarely meat-- since most of the animals are toxic in some way and can be difficult to properly prepare. they do regularly drink blood from each other, however, for various reasons.

they have claws but many may choose to trim them down.

eyes are typically dark, and they are accustomed to living in darkness and twilight.

completely hairless except for the scalp, though it is common enough for them to be bald here as well (whatever their sex is). hair is typically black, white, or silver.

body hair, including facial hair, is rare. more likely if they have any humans in their ancestry, but not required.

pthumerians have elongated body proportions compared to humans, particularly in the limbs and digits.

adults are often much taller than the average grown human.

pthumerians rarely die of "old age" and continue growing taller throughout their lives, though it slows down to a point that is barely perceptible after adulthood. growth rates can vary widely among individuals.

giant pthumerians aren't necessarily ancients though-- they just have wack growth rates. (either naturally, or induced by... something else)

they also have a much better sense of smell than humans do. it is said that pthumerians, especially those deeply connected to the arcane, smell naturally of lumenflowers.

humans and pthumerians are sexually compatible. pthumerians successfully reproduce at a much lower rate, though. Their naturally longer lives make it less necessary.

normally, offspring between these two should be sterile, but....

pthumerians are often physically much stronger than they appear, and use arcane magic and pyromancy much more easily than humans, but their comparatively lower population puts them at a numbers disadvantage against humans.

their language is eldritch in nature and difficult for those unaccustomed to the sounds to speak properly, or even learn. Most pthumerians can at least understand human language though, even if they can’t/won’t speak it.

pthumerians have no taboo against nudity, even among mixed sexes. clothing is worn for things like functionality, fashion, to display their rank, but isn't actually required.

some pthumerians keep giant rats as companions and service animals. they are often trained to detect hidden, forgotten traps.

You see there is other blades that are in the form of wave/ zigzag. Logarius sword, the pthumerians daggers, queen Yharnam dagger, even a bit of the cainhurst widows so I thought of something

WHAT IF! What if, actually ALL the pthumerians came from Loran (who's next to a desert so Middle East/near east type of country), and a part escape/ went away from the scourge and create Pthumeru/Isz along the way more in the west?

But if Pthumeru is the tomb of the gods that mean they took them along the way 🤔 or maybe the "old lords" died because of what happened in Loran and they just did grave for them and that's why they crown themselves some leader in Pthumeru hm...

ok the undulated swords are called a kriss! it's Indonesian apparently