#psychopompious

   ‘veiled soon-to-be-ex-catholic hysteria’ is SUCH a LOOK    

Real talk: practical theodicy is the most ... fascinating thing in a world where the metaphysical questions about souls and afterlives and whether or not god and angels etc exist and what they are like, 90% directly answerable. The faith aspect is pushed like, waaaaaaay back to this tiny sliver of content covering ‘why does it happen THIS way for US and THIS way for YOU’ and ‘but what about the far future tho’ and ‘okay but like, OUTSIDE the universe there’s...?’ and things, because most of the rest of it is just, confirmed in-universe fact! Cut out the middleman, just expose the important non-semantics! it’s really great. also: “And for that reason I said that if your tale is true, then all in Arda is vain, from the pinnacle of Oiolossë to the uttermost abyss.”

Finrod.... :((((((

   also andie sorry for clarifying at your clarifications endlessly but don’t acknowledge this apology or we’ll never escape    

I’M SORRY about clarifying your clarif-- okay no

linguisticparadox replied to your post:                   gurguliare replied to your post:                ...                

   I was gonna be mad until you amended it to “beloved twit” bc I love Finrod with all my heart and soul    

sjhdfbsd YES an important distinction (finrod = literally my favorite silm elf...technically I sooooort of sliiiiightly love galadriel and elrond more, but only in lotr not in the silm, i don’t really consider them silm characters, and silm and lotr characters are apples to oranges for me)

actualmermaid replied to your post:                   crocordile replied to your post:                  ...                

   I am so much of a Feanorian fan that I went and had their symbol tattooed on my body but in what universe are they textual underdogs, like. really. they have the best stuff in the book but making them 100% sympathetic and always justified in everything they do robs them of most of what makes them compelling in the first place    

It’s like, the Godfather if the Corleones really were a respectable olive oil business or smth. idk. that’s a dumb example. but just yeah, 100% this.

kareenvorbarra replied to your post:                   crocordile replied to your post:                  ...                

   “the narrative is biased against the feanorians” discourse is still one of the most puzzling things i’ve ever seen in this fandom    

I just have to sit down and chinhands sometimes. Like. Do you know the sheer number of characters I would kill to have half as much juicy in-text character-clarification and focus and description and nuance and dialogue and filled-in timeline details as the Feanorians....(I mean, I GUESS Finrod technically gets several times more dialogue than any other Finwean except maybe Galadriel (in lotr), but still...? that’s, a philosophy debate? whereas the whole narrative is focused around the Feanorians’ tragedy - yes, all about tragic flaws and self-destructiveness etc of course, but it’s still written/presented as MUCH more similar to...Turin rather than Sauron, for example)

psychopompious replied to your post:                   actualmermaid replied to your post:               …                

   also seeing as I adore the Arafinwions, maybe I’ve finally found the answer to why I can’t write any of the Feanorions to save my life (with the lone exception of Celegorm, but does he really count)    

berrysphase replied to your post “valaraukars replied to your post “AU maeglin in mithrim with grandad...”

I'm sideeyeing myself here for sounding so "MY PET THEORY" when my whole point was there's actually a whole bunch of ways to explain Earendil not getting the Kingship and some of them can leave Maeglin the legitimate heir -- lol sorry (Assuming Gil is Orodreth's, that is, I always do too!) I figure the relative Sindarin comfort with powerful women has a lot to do with Melian, but it turns out I could go on and add screenfuls about Elwe's special status

and king's choice etc etc so uh I'll spare you... Also surely this attitude has a lot to do with why Galadriel married a Sinda.

Elves arguing inheritance politics is my catnip but it's also a bit brain-breaking -- I mean here are these immortal beings arguing about different interpretations of inheritance law when inheritance was just invented out of whole cloth so recently, you get to blatant rationalization s and bad philosophical arguments so fast

No no, it certainly can be done but you’re right, I forgot about Earendil during my analysis. Gil as Orodreth has always made sense to me, especially with how small a player he is until after the War of Wrath. God, the Galadriel-Marries-A-Sinda thing is an excellent point. I tend to skim over the more overtly patriarchal crap in the text (and in my fic, unless I’m making a point) but it explains an awful lot about why such an ambitious woman would spend so much time away from the action - she has vastly more of a say in governance etc. in Doriath than she would have in her own peoples’ lands - and of course she’d marry a Sinda, this is great. 

God, yes, how did the issue of who would inherit Finwe’s crown break society when the issue was, as far as anyone knew, entirely academic? (because it was really a question of who daddy loved more :()

psychopompious replied to your post “valaraukars replied to your post “AU maeglin in mithrim with grandad...”

"and she's his great aunt" you say that like it would be a problem for him. that's only 4th degree consanguinity, same as first cousins!

also re: Celeborn's relation to Thingol, I think in that version it's through the schrodinger's cat brother (aka Elmo) but I'd have to dig up that lovely chart of Doriath's long line of cousin marriages to check

.......okay fuck, you’re right. Maeglin would. 

If that’s the case then I suppose I owe Tolkien an apology. But he’s dead and also we have no idea what happened to Lalwen so I’m just gonna sit on it. 

vardasvapors replied to your post “Paying attention to those things is not my forte but thank you for...”

I just wanted to mention that this series of prompted au's is like my fave thing in the fandom rn

Thx xx I just wish I could be more varied with them than ‘but then everyone died anyway’

crocordile replied to your post “valaraukars replied to your post “AU maeglin in mithrim with grandad...”

to be fair though, nothing in canon suggests elwing held a position of authority by herself; you can easily assume her position comes from her marriage :/ Though ofc that is not my interpretation/headcanon at all!

re: earendil's ellegibility for high kingship: on the purely legalist side cirdan and co might just be following finrod's logic and taking finarfin's to be the royal line after fingolfin's death, or something? i always assumed that (but then again i def hc gil as oro's son which not many do hahaha)

You: “I don't think Tolkien meant for us to interpret it this way."

Me, an intellectual w. a folder of Silm erotica: "He didn't mean for us to interpret a lot of things this way. But we did."

I.E. Elwing is queen and idgaf what Tolkien wanted. 

I am with you on Gil as Oro’s (AND NOT JUST FOR SHIPPING REASONS OKAY, I HAVE LAYERS), someone pointed out the thematic neatness of the three lines of Finwe’s descendants dying to other elves, to Morgoth, and to Sauron respectively and Gil as an Arafinwean falls neatly into that. 

simaethae replied to your post “Paying attention to those things is not my forte but thank you for...”

how about they win a decisive enough victory to reclaim *one* silmaril and then morgoth flips and... volcanoes. or something. anyway you could totally contrive an AU where some of the feanorians, i'm saying C&C for kicks, have to fall back to the safety of Doriath in the ensuing chaos with their newly-obtained silmaril (since after all we know a silmaril can get you through the girdle...)

like i'm sorry this is great but i feel like it just needs more terrible decision making from the noldor to be a silm AU >>;

I’m starting to feel bad for Anon, okay? Just like Mandos, even my cold heart can be moved to pity. 

C+C in Doriath would be exquisite tbh, it’s yet another closed system where they can feed on paranoia, claw for power, and Celegorm can get into a creep off with Daeron while Thingol despises them while coveting the jewel and Melian is like ‘for fuck’s sake guys’ but no one listens. At least maybe the dwarves are free of the murder shenanigans this time around!

emilyenrose replied to your post “Paying attention to those things is not my forte but thank you for...”

ok but any au where luthien doesn't dress up as a vampire is a bad end au anyway

Truer words have never been spoken. 

vardasvapors replied to your post “Idk if you'll agree or not, but for the au where the silmarils don't...”

this is so wonderfully terrible and perfect, i love the...honesty and simplicity of the things they say, in them talking specifically about their relationship, though the feelings and Maglor's claims about finishing it can map onto much more. Also "I'd like that" JUST KILL ME.

It didn’t kill Mae though, more’s the pity :( Okay but realtalk, thank you <3 I suppose by this point all pretension’s pretty much been stripped away, they’re well past the point where lying to each other or themselves would do any good. 

valaraukars replied to your post “Ok I've find that tag .. but you actually read it? You can find it...”

You know who defied the valar? You know who doesn't get any credit? You know who is a character of true depth and nuance, constantly dismissed by an undeserving fandom? Ungoliant

No no Ungoliant, as established, abandoned her children and is a bad mother and thus a bad woman giant spider. Please keep your vile glorification of her off my blog. 

imindhowwelayinjune replied to your post “Idk if you'll agree or not, but for the au where the silmarils don't...”

You are maddeningly good at feelings that cut to the bone and somehow have this soupcon of humor - 'I'd like that,' said Maedhros wistfully - that makes the feeling go straight through the bone to the marrow

   my friends and i blasted it on a road trip once it was a transcendent experience    

yavieriel replied to your post:                  actualmermaid replied to your post:               ...                

   That is exactly what I meant.  Here it is: yavieriel.tumblr.com/po…    

OH MY GOD THIS IS AMAZING

psychopompious replied to your post:                 Random question but  Your thoughts on the Turin x...                

   only tangentially related but re: Beleg and his fascination/obsession, I’ve always wondered if that didn’t go back farther than Turin himself and like, maybe had more to do with “outsiders” in general than mortals specifically? Like there’s the fact that Beleg and Mablung were the only Iathrim to attend the Nirnaeth and at that point Turin wasn’t in the picture at all, so why??    

It would definitely make sense! Though I didn’t really get the impression his love for Turin was focused a lot in curiosity about outsiders, just kind of x_x uh oh I love this idiot why

    (also I totes believe that the random unnamed Marchwarden who chatted with Aredhel and gave her directions was Thinly Disguised Beleg. Beleg was known for ranging really far rite. tbh much as I love Meggles I would give ANYTHING for an au where Aredhel decided to just chill with Beleg instead of heading off into Nan Elmoth.)              

This would be a fantaaaastic AU tbh. Weird cultural stuff + traveling = yes.

rvoris replied to your post: thelioninmybed replied to your post:                   shiniest-knight...

     You know that the animators who did the 1970s Hobbit went on to found Studio Ghibli, right? So yeah, they could do a Hobbit.                

I didn’t know that! I’ve never seen the 1970s Hobbit though, only gifs.

gevherhans replied to your post:                   Random question but  Your thoughts on the Turin x...                

   your first tag is spot on lmao. and as far as CoH elf dudes go i prefer gwindor by…well, a lot    

Gwindor is SUCH a fascinating and underrated character, though tbh I do think a lot of his most interesting stuff isn’t totally fleshed out properly in the Silm version.

starspray replied to your post:                   starspray replied to your post:                  ...                

   I know what you mean. It’s been probably almost that long since I’ve read it myself.   

   ALSO I love the movie. Like, it’s such a great adaptation, and the animation is gorgeous and and *flails*    

   I mean on the one hand he IS a very Gaston-like Disney villain kind of hunter, like you totally expect him to kill Bambi’s mom, but then on the other he’s also a talking animals and singing to birds literal Disney princess!    

yeah I think I described him in some tag as like, my top favorite aesthetic plus my least favorite personality type (least favorite irl, at least).

   But that’s the thing re: all of the Feanorians honestly? This is the ONE instance where I’m (mostly) happy to stand by JRR’s estimation of his characters, to paraphrase SUPER roughly, “they’re definitely assholes but not really villains outside of this one particular story”.  

Yeeaah this is a good description! Like, narrow-slice villainy rather than broad spectrum, or w/e

elesianne replied to your post: gurguliare replied to your post:                   gurguliare replied...

                   Hey you introduced me at least to the genius of that how much is Celegorm like Gaston post! Thank you, I almost spit out my tea                

GOOD BECAUSE IT IS THE MOST ACCURATE CELEGORM CONTENT

berrysphase replied to your post: bamboocounting replied to your post:                    gurguliare...

                   This is an amazing culmination of metaphors and I love it; also the best two Young Wizard books are 1 and 2 by a mile                

                   Can endorse, for a photon time is timeless and a photon simply is, glowing its own particular mathematical hue              

SOUNDS GOOD yeah bamboo also impressed on me that 1 and 2 were def the best ones, thank you for the corroboration! ....on re-reading my metaphors I don’t even know wtf I was going with them but like, whatever, I’ll apologize to Fred after I read him or smth

psychopompious replied to your post: Elrond? :)                             

                   YAAAS THANK YOU. Tbh I've always kinda figured that by the Third Age the number of elves who really identify as Noldor first would be... very very small? Even the ones who are obviously Noldor (hi Gildor) usually just identify themselves as Exiles, which is a name that includes far more people than the original exiled Noldor at that point. And then there's that whole quote that I can't be bothered to find rn about the Noldor becoming indistinguishable from the Sindar...      

Yes! I always thought even the Second Age Noldor would mostly be extremely different from the First Age ones, especially because I really strongly like the idea that Lindon was just, this, Noldor-ruled but not-really-Noldorin realm, that grew out of a hodge-podge of refugees who escaped from the drowning and huddled in Ossiriand because it was the only hospitable large place within the well-mapped/familiar reaches of Beleriand that wasn’t destroyed. So it’s like...’’’’’Noldor’’’’’’ in a way that just doesn’t mean the same thing as the First Age at all. AND I always saw Gil-galad (who I usually headcanon as Orodreth’s son) as not being very strongly Noldorin either since he was raised among the falathrim by Cirdan. So I always kind of interpreted the really strong distinct Noldor culture as migrating off to Eregion rather than Lindon.

And by the Third Age, of course, it’s by far more exaggerated than even that, when there are no more Noldorin realms at all. The only place where a large number of Noldor would even congregate anyway is in Rivendell, and pfffffft. Rivendell elves. (Though this is like, seriously, maybe my favorite hypothetical character development arc in the entire legendarium. Just imagine some of the same individual Noldor elves who marched out of Tirion after Feanor winding up singing lullabies under Bilbo’s window 7000 years later.)

psychopompious replied to your post: misc replying                               

                   on the less creepy side! He's apparently as good a smith as Feanor (or more like anti-Feanor given that their greatest works are exact opposites) according to a section that's basically "here's an outline of common elvish biases which are demonstrably wrong!"                

                  This is also the volume that has the extended ramble about Celegorm's and Curufin's motives and argues that they do in fact possess a sense of honor! (A sense of honor with the worst ever timing!! Why are you guys only averse to a bit of kinslaying in the one instance where that would actually be helpful, ffs.)                

tl;dr I love it a lot and I should let you read it yourself instead of flailing at you about it 8D      

OMFG now I absolutely have to read this if there’s a section all about how elves are not just neat stereotypes!! (It’s one of my biggest irritations in fandom).

starspray replied to your post:                   ulmo?                

   In no triggering some latent power in Elwing has been my theory for ages, although I had never considered it in light of the Valar’s limitations. I like that a lot.    

Awesome! Glad it’s not just me. I had this like, mental video of that scene for ages - of Ulmo like, pushing her back up towards the surface while just kind of, nudging her to tell her where in her psyche to reach to get the power or something, and when she breaks the surface she just, kind of erupts in feathers and foam-spray, and takes off in like, a hellish frenzy of determination and fury and shit.

psychopompious replied to your post: for your Tolkien-proof meme, finarfin?      

                   wait I thought Finarfin turned back before the whole slaying of kin thing happened?? my life is a lie                

Huh? Wait, is there an alternate version where he did? *_* Wow, um, if so that would definitely be my unfavorite version!

Yeah, when they leave it’s “[Fingolfin] marched against his wisdom, because Fingon his son so urged him, and because he would not be sundered from his people that were eager to go, nor leave them to the rash counsels of Fëanor. Nor did he forget his words before the throne of Manwë. With Fingolfin went Finarfin also and for like reasons; but most loath was he to depart.”

And then only after the kinslaying and the Doom prophecy, it’s:

“But in that hour Finarfin forsook the march, and turned back, being filled with grief, and with bitterness against the House of Fëanor, because of his kinship with Olwë of Alqualondë; and many of his people went with him, retracing their steps in sorrow”

psychopompious replied to your post:                   Have you done Aredhel?                

   UGH I LOVE THAT HEADCANON ABOUT HER EPESSE 100% accepted    

Thanks!!! Obvs its not like, conclusive or anything, and imo evidence and stuff is totally not required for making people not-all-white, but you know ;) Playing with canon tidbits is so fun

psychopompious replied to your post:               Have you done Aredhel?                

   also re: her relationships with Turgon and Fingon, maybe she and Fingon are just too similar, and end up squabbling a lot? and then Turgon, the eternal middle child, gets to play go-between    

Yeah that would make a lot of sense! And since Turgon overlaps with Fingon in some personalty aspects too, the unwillingness to give up once started and stuff, and then part of what little we know of Argon is that he was impulsive, the family picture is pretty amusing ;)

psychopompious replied to your post:                 ulmo?                

   I did not know about this thing with Namo?? omg   

Yeah I missed it for a long time, I had wondered what was up with the whole, both drowning and helping thing, but just kind of chalked it up to weird Valar stuff (thinking now about @simaethae’s headcanon/idea thing about the ainur not necessarily thinking of themselves as entirely individual self-willed people all the time). But in the expanded Of Tuor and His Coming to Gondolin from the UT:

“And as Ulmo said these things the mutter of the storm rose to a great cry, and the wind mounted, and the sky grew black; and the mantle of the Lord of Waters streamed out like a flying cloud. "Go now," said Ulmo, "lest the Sea devour thee! For Ossë obeys the will of Mandos, and he is wroth, being a servant of the Doom."”

erotetica replied to your post:                   Have you done Aredhel?                

   it’s because she and fingon would explode the world. they’re taking one for the team.    

THIS IS A TRUE FACT.

Also they would constantly be getting into fashion competitions.

elesianne replied to your post:                   Have you done Aredhel?                

                   being aredhel's maid/laundress must be the worst job. the combination of white clothes and a liking for traipsing across woods and fields...                

OMFG I know right. Aredhel’s laundress must’ve been the elf who invented bleach.

bamboocounting replied to your post:                 ulmo?                

   “kind of activating/strengthening some diluted Ainur powers she got from Melian” WHAT. YES.   

   I’m always inclined to like people throwing themselves off things but - the one post about celegorm’s verbal shitposting? if she’s already /been/ practicing this for a good while (cf luthien  and the vampire shape)   

kshdjhjfsss i can’t believe I understand this comment but okay that’s definitely a possibility that I’ve never considered. THOUGH....I have always had this super unsourced headcanon, actually, of Elwing like, having always had a strong affinity for seabirds due to seeing them being the first thing that made her respond after being nonverbal for a long while as a young child from trauma after Doriath, and like, always wanting to/occasionally trying to fly? Which most would chalk up to kid stuff but as it turned out...

simaethae replied to your post:                 ulmo?                                           

                   yep yep yep, the thing about elwing later just deciding she's going to learn how to do the bird thing herself thanks def makes me think it's an Elwing thing and not just an Ulmo thing                

Yes!! That too. And I just in general love how much weird stuff Elwing gets to come up with/initiate all on her own.

thelioninmybed replied to your post:                    Saruman?                                  

  Ahhh fuck I love him so much, the pipeweed thing might be my favourite characterisation moment in all the books               

I was so delighted when I read it too omggggg

the-artifice-of-eternity replied to your post:                    Saruman?                  

 One of my favorite moments in the books will always be when Merry says “Hey, can I have my bag of pipe weed back?” and Saruman, a literal ancient demigod, goes “no fuck you” and runs away.    

ksdjhfjshkfgslgikshjw help I can’t.

erotetica replied to your post:                   for your Tolkien-proof meme, finarfin?                

   I. am fairly certain I stole this from someone at some point but I like to think that sweeping up after Tirion was a joint effort with Anaire   

*nods furiously* yes!!!! plus repairing relations with the teleri and stuff, through her friendship with Earwen. Also what a cool dynamic between him and Anaire. I have a weakness for stories about family dynamics that generally aren’t focused on as a central relationship, like in-laws.

bamboocounting replied to your post: meme: arien? :)

                   d'you think that's a judgemental 'you have horrible sleeping habits' surprise or more of a 'nooo tiny Children come out so I can see you do tiny mortal things'                

type reaction, for example, like me with my alexander hamsterton         

I REALLY REALLY WANT ALL MAIAR TO BE LIKE THIS but yes especially the ones who hang out in the sky looking at what’s going on for several hours out of each day. Remember that bit where Osse loved the falathrim and their singing so much he convinced some of them not to go to Aman where he wouldn’t see them all the time

imindhowwelayinjune replied to your post:                   imindhowwelayinjune replied to your post:         ...                

   Athrabeth Finrod with Lemon-drops    

ahhh but Finrod definitely also gave the early Beorians delicious stuff to help smooth weird misunderstandings over. Even in rl nothing helps quite like bringing brownies to the office.

psychopompious replied to your post:                   psychopompious replied to your post:             …                

   that’s the one! (is it too obvious that I basically live in that book, haha)    

Haha I just assumed from the timeframe, but I basically live in the UT so I get you ;)

psychopompious replied to your post:                psychopompious replied to your post:             …                

   and YEAH it’s where you find such gems as Eol naming Maeglin after “the metal which he himself devised” because it was “dark, supple and strong” and “even so was his son” among many, many other things. he really takes the creepiness Up To Eleven.    

“supple.” ok then.

psychopompious replied to your post:                 a million meme replies          

   ahh yeah I see now where I got mixed up, I must have been thinking of the version(s) where the Doom happens before the kinslaying    

Oohhhh right that was a thing wasn’t it? Ugh now I forget where - was it in Morgoth’s Ring or the BOLT? (There will come a day when I read these things cover to cover instead of in scattered chunks and actually absorb fully integrated narratives from them, but this is not that day). Yeah I...don’t like that timeline, IMO it cheapens both the Doom and the slaying.

psychopompious replied to your post:               a million meme replies                

   re: Aredhel’s epesse, ngl I still kinda like that she wears a lot of white,  entirely because Turgon is also said to wear a lot of white and the thought of them with matching outfits is *adorable*. But I am happy to have multiple headcanons about this. c:    

I think according to that quote, it’s meant to be both the skin and the clothes that led to her epesse, so imo both is good for me too ;) And anyway I not-so-secretly love any character appearance and clothing details that are like, distinctive and/or meaningful, because variety in characters’ appearance and clothing descriptions is....not exactly Tolkien’s strong suit lol. this has nothing to do with the fact that i have never in my life picked one explanation for anything when two or more would do why would you say that

psychopompious replied to your post:                   a million meme replies                

   Oooh yeah, that’s super cool. I love how unusual Osse is as an ainu, from not really liking Aman and almost joining Melkor, to crying after the Teleri while they’re being transported and inventing seabirds JUST to troll Ulmo. He’s such an asshole and I love him <3    

Osse is flipping amazing and I wish more well-fleshed-out maiar were characterized more similarly to him. I especially just love the whole concept of...demigod angels who do some magical majestic godly stuff, sometimes, but mostly prefer to fangirl about how much they love incarnates. Anyway I like how careful Tolkien was to hammer the “the sea is terrifying and will end you without even blinking” thing alongside the amazing enchanting sea-loving and sea-longing things, they both improve each other imo.

gurguliare replied to your post: more meme reply things                              

                    http://lintamande.tumblr.com/post/109729854518/aredhels-story-the-first-draft <-- post w the c&c bits! it's short, i suspect you'll have run into most of these quotes elsewhere on tumblr. BUT YEAH i also love the hypothetical nightingale --> seagull thing...  birds birds birds birds