#pol!jon

It a short form tag that stands for political jon. Essentially an explanation theorized and popularized by a number of people in asoiaf/game of thrones fandom in an attempt to explain some of the very questionable if not outright out of character choices that writer's made on game of thrones for Jon Snow in the later seasons concerning his entire storyline since encountering Daenerys.

Essentially its a theory that stands by the idea that the only way Jon's action and choices could make sense were if Jon's interactions with Daenerys and her allies were not of a genuine nature (i.e. he had no genuine loyalty, affection, love, or trust in her or her advisors/army) but rather everything he was doing and saying amounted to him "playing" the game and doing whatever was necessary to gain her help (i.e. her army and dragons) in the war against the dead, but also to keep his family members and subjects safe from Dany's wrath once he brought her north, and potentially even to maneuver/keep himself in a position where he would be close enough to take Daenerys out all together should it prove necessary to eliminate someone who had proved to be an obvious threat (i.e. before she could cause mass murder and destruction via her dragons, or attempt to greviously harm Jon himself or his "siblings"- the latter at least Jon was successful with)

I saw this from a pol!jon anti. I didn't deliberately look for it but it was in the tags. Where in Pol!Jon did we say Jon was gonna use, abuse and exploit Dany? Dany and Jon will both get what they want from the relationship. Dany will get the North's support so she could sit her ass on the IT. Jon would get the dragons which is the sole reason he will come to her for. They will be using each other. It's also in her best interest to help the North as self proclaimed Protector of the Realm. That's her job.

If they happen to fuck while on the mission so what? Daenerys was happily fucking Daario even when she already had a husband. What makes Jon different from Daario? I doubt Jon will make promises of love to her. It will be her fault if she thinks what they have is true love. Val with silver hair was the only one who tasted the sweetness. Jon was all cold.

Not everyone who loves her, of course, but (from my experience) a lot of people who do, seem to be of the opinion that if someone isn't worshipping the ground she walks on -- isn't bending over backwards in their support and love of her -- then they automatically fall into the category of "is using, abusing, and exploiting her!!" In the foundation of Pol!Jon, by nature of not truly supporting her, morally, and just engaging in what she wants in order to save the North (and all of Westeros) he's an active enemy. Even though, if done properly, he is still -- at it's core -- an ally. Albeit an unenthusiastic one.

Kit's face.

I'm late to the fandom but I just finished S7 and I'm having thoughts.

I'm a reader of the books, and I hadn't watched the show till now because... I suck at watching shows with hour long episodes and more than three seasons.

What made me decide to watch it was the Pol!Jon discourse I found on the Internet.

I know enough about the show to understand how unlikely and out of character this theory would seem to show watchers. At the same time, I fully believe that book!Jon would be fully capable of something like this. But also, even though I do ship Jonsa in the books, I can't deny that Jonerys is.....a big deal. Everyone expects it to happen. It's a highly anticipated pairing and....I just couldn't honestly believe Pol!Jon because it is just so against the general expectation.

So I decided to watch the show. And now I've finished season 7 and I am astounded.

Let me preface this by saying that I went into S7 already disliking Jonerys (sue me) but I still fully expected to have some serious doubts about the validity of Jonsa. I fully expected to be at least somewhat convinced of Jonerys. Even hating the idea of Jon and Danaerys together, I still expected more.

There are a number of things I would like to note here.

First, Jonerys is a romance that is told, not shown. Davos talks about Jon watching Dany's "good heart" (hehe) to tell us Jon is attracted to Dany. But then Jon immediately dismisses it- and not in a way that looks like he's deflecting. He's not only dismissing it, he's dismissive of it. His mind is not in the conversation, it is beyond the Wall.

Similarly, Tyrion says (not in those words), "yeah right, and Jon only looks at you longingly coz he wants a military alliance with you". Not sure what I'm supposed to think about that....? First, Jon doesn't look at Dany longingly at all???? Not once. Second, is this line supposed to suggest that Jon is looking at her longingly for a reason that is not desperately wanting a military alliance....? Because we already know that that's exactly what he does want. Wtf do I make of this statement?????

There are other examples, but the point remains. People keep talking about Jon and Dany being into each other, and that is what is supposed to convince us that they are into each other (well yea Dany is) but Jon gives no indication of looking at her longingly, of falling in love with her, of being intrigued by her even. He's a brick wall.

Alright, I'll concede one (1) scene where I saw legitimate attraction on his face for a second- that is the cave scene. Even there tho, it's hard to tell if he's just watching her reaction carefully or if he wants to bang her.

On the other hand, Dany shows that she is into him. Even so, when I say she's into him, I mean she's attracted to him and intrigued by him. I cannot believe she loves him.

Next, I think it's interesting that in the episode before (or was it the same episode?) Jon bends the knee, we have a number of people (Tormund, Beric) talk about stuff like- kings not bending the knee leading to people dying, knowing what's important (the fight against the dead), being the shield that guards the realm of men blah blah I don't remember the exact words. Then he sees the WW and the Army of the Dead (again) and sees a dragon die. And then, the first opportunity he gets, he bends the knee. I want to point out here that the scenes really emphasise on Jon's thinking face after every conversation he has during their little gay party beyond the Wall. They focus on the look on his face again while he's watching the Army. Multiple times. And there's clearly something going on in his head, gears are turning.

One other scene that struck me is the scene where Jon and Dany are saying goodbye to each other (the Eastwatch episode). In the same episode (if I remember correctly) Jon calls them strangers, and then the goodbye scene comes and Dany says to Jon's little morbid joke, "I've grown used to him". Him being Jon. Two things to note here-

One, Jon considers them strangers but Dany has gotten "used to him". Maybe it's nothing, or maybe it's an indication of how the two of them are absolutely not on the same page (about anything).

Second, Jon's face after she says that. It shuts down. Like a door slamming. And then he says that "wish you good fortune in the wars to come" line, which has ZERO romance, or longing, but a whole lot of bad precedent (does that make sense?). Ouch. The thought that occured to me here is that Dany is being somewhat obvious about her feelings, and maybe, just maybe Jon has picked up on it. And that is why he reacts the way he does.

I wasn't sure so I compared the scene with the Jonsa forehead kiss scene in S6, and Jon's expressions after that kiss.

My logic was this- I assume that either Jon has become aware of Dany's feelings in the Eastwatch goodbye scene, or his own feelings for her. One of these assumptions is true. Which one?

If Jon has feelings for Sansa, then his confusion/awareness/discomfort regarding that are seen in that forehead kiss scene. So if Jon has become aware of his feelings for Dany, let's see how these two scenes compare?

My dudes. There is no comparison. Go watch it.

I watched both scenes with sound off, and the difference is insane. Jon looks at Sansa's lips. There's a moment's pause that's full of tension, and then his face shuts in a way, but it's a bit confused, a bit thoughtful.

Jon does not look at Dany's lips. He does not look confused, or thoughtful. This is not a romance.

Side observation- speaking of showing and telling, it's funny how we're shown Jon looking at Sansa's wolf bits, and told that Jon looks at Dany's good heart. Yes I'm talking about boobs but wolf bits and good heart is funnier. We literally see Jon look at the wolf bits twice, talk about it himself, in a completely unnecessary conversation...as opposed to being entirely dismissive of the good heart, even when someone else brings it up.

Back to the main point, one last thing I'd like to talk about is the scene where Jon actually bends the knee (not really). First, there are still no heart-eyes. Definitely not from Jon. Second, it's funny how Jon uses the exact hand-grabbing move that Sansa used on him last season, when she was trying to convince him to do something he didn't particularly wanna do (like he's now trying to do with Dany). This means that

1) he learnt that move from Sansa. He knows how effective it is XD

2) if the Jonerys hand-grab is romance, it stands to reason that the Jonsa hand-grab is romance too. I mean both the grabs are suspiciously similar.

Then, even after Dany "promises" that she'll help the North fight the WW, Jon still bends the knee. I felt both an odd sense of urgency coming from him, and an understandable hesitation. Or maybe that's just me.

Now suddenly, he becomes complimentary of her. But there's something weird about his compliments. They are completely generic. "They'll see you for what you are" and in the later episode, "you're not like the others". Wtf does that MEAN ??

Here's the thing...Jon could have paid Dany a way more specific, genuine sounding compliment after bending the knee (complete with heart eyes). I mean she did just fly over the Wall to rescue him and his men. He could have said more, something meaningful, but he didn't. He bent the knee like a house on fire (that doesn't make sense but you get what I mean I hope) and paid generic compliments. Then he pretended to sleep until she left and then sighed very loudly.

??? Romance??? WHERE????

Then the dragon pit. Heart-eyes still missing.

Then the sex scene. What do I say? Lol.

No really. There are no heart eyes even during the sex scene. Honestly, idk what that face was. Not in love for sure.

Another side note- Arya and Sansa have talks while standing in the same place where the forehead kiss scene happened (wtf do you call that place again, the bridge.??) But no heart eyes. No lingering looks. There is no incestuous gay love between them, I can say for sure. All it does is prop up the odd incestuous vibes of the Jon Sansa scene in that same place.

ANOTHER side note- goddamn but does Sansa talk about Jon a lot.

Warning. This answer is all over the place. I think they cut some scenes from episodes prior to the finale, but the finale feels the most butchered (though I think we’ll never know and I probably sound like a total crackpot). 

I really think they were going hard for pol!jon during the filming of season 7 and it almost feels like they started doubting that strategy in post-production. Or maybe not, and they thought that the dark!Dany turn was obvious enough in that season that they didn’t need to make pol!jon explicit then, and they could have that be the big reveal of season 8. 

But of course, the general audience didn’t pick it up. So, I think they for sure started doubting the pol!jon shift when they realized how badly most viewers interpreted season 7 and D’s character arc… so maybe when they started putting together the season 8 scenes, they didn’t think they could pull off both Dark!D and Pol!Jon in a way that was palatable to most of the audience, especially when the audience wasn’t primed in the correct way to view Dany as the Big Bad™. 

I think they correctly anticipated the blow back about what a bad look it would be for Jon Snow to have purposely manipulated D within a romantic relationship and then go on to kill her when most viewers went into season 8 seeing her as a protagonist, and that a lot of viewers (including many women) would hate it. They weren’t going to pull away from D breaking bad, since the groundwork was too obvious and that was ALWAYS where her story was heading, but I think they lost faith in their ability to reveal pol!jon. I think they made the mistake of not making Jon’s political movements clearer in season 7 and I think from the very beginning they weren’t very good at making Jon a morally grey character. They didn’t commit to it early enough. He is far more grey in the books than they ever made him in the show, and that hurt their ambitions for pol!Jon quite a bit, I think.  As much as I love subtext, it was too much subtext in season 7, especially for an audience that couldn’t even pick up dark!Dany (even though it was hammered in EVERY SINGLE SEASON). 

I realize I haven’t even started answering your actual question. 

I don’t know what they actually filmed (obviously, lol), but I think they started season eight filming with the intention to make pol!jon and maybe jonsa explicit. The pre-season setup was already there, and then when you look at the first half of season 8, there are too many things that don’t make sense if that wasn’t where they were heading. The Jon/Sansa scene in episode one (was that ep 1?), jealous Sansa at the feast, and then even the Tyrion/Sansa conversation on the ramparts all point to Jonsa (though I suspect the Tyrion/Sansa conversation was a last-minute addition too).  

I’m less frustrated by the lack of explicit Jonsa than I am about the butchering of the pol!Jon plot. The pol!Jon plot was sooooo good. It completed the Stark arc. It was the answer to all of the Stark men who died for honor in the south. It made contextual sense. But...I can also imagine the many, many think pieces that would have been written screaming misogyny and sexism. LOL. 

Those got written anyway. 

I don’t think they inserted many scenes. I think it was more that they cut scenes or left scenes out. I think they cut stuff out of Jon revealing his parentage to the other Starks. That scene felt only half-finished and the transition was so odd. I definitely think the scene where Tyrion convinces Jon to kill Dany was added at the last minute. It made no sense, especially not after the Arya and Jon conversation about Dany being a killer and Jon telling Arya to wait for him outside the city… like what?

I also hope that they filmed something better then the dragon pit scene where Bran becomes king and Tyrion becomes Hand. I hated that scene so so so so so so so much. It was so sloppy and bad. That and the Tyrion/Jon scene felt the most out of place. Those are the two I suspect were added and maybe the Tyrion/Sansa scene in the previous episode. 

It’s harder to figure out what may have been cut, but if I could guess anything,I think they scrapped part of Arya and Jon’s reunion in the godswood (that Sansa conversation was very strange and stilted and if they were going to make Jonsa explicit, a hint there would work) and I think they cut short the scene where Jon revealed his parentage to the other Starks. That is where the pol!Jon reveal makes the most sense, especially right after the scene where he backs D and not Sansa in the war room. If they filmed that scene, it also makes sense that it would have been cut if they decided to scrap pol!jon. Its hard to imagine them intentionally cutting short the parentage reveal to the people it would matter to most (besides D) unless most of the footage was unusable because of last minute change in direction. 

Summary:

Bells tolling surrender. The city and the palace collapsing under dragonfire. Children, little children burnt. A crime made untimely. A world saved. A Wolf becomes no one again. The true Heir to the Iron Throne is no more, just like the throne itself. Six Kingdoms under a broken raven that was never to be Lord of anything. The Red Wolf is alone, adorned with the ghosts of her past. The Lone Wolf dies, but the Pack Survives

Bran’s gasp was sharp, choking him, he struggled to draw breath as Meera rushed close to him. ‘We must reach Winterfell the soonest.’ Bran for the first time sounded full of emotion, one emotion in particular: despair.

Bran arrives in Winterfell the moment a raven from Dragonstone reaches Jon and Sansa, carrying a summon with a demand to bend the knee. The secret of Jon's birth now becomes valuable information while the King in the North and the Lady of Winterfell are surrounded by enemies. Jon wishes to win the Battle for the Dawn by any means necessary, while Sansa wants for both of them to end this War victorious in a Game that you win or you die... there is no middle ground.

Jon couldn’t be smarter, he failed Sansa whenever it came down to her, when it came to unworthy men lusting after her.

He would protect her, he had promised.

Cousins