I knowwwwwwww everyoneās always talking about it but doesnāt it drive you at least a little crazy to know that observant akechi didnāt notice that it was a cognitive Joker in Saeās interrogation room. The implication that he Chose not to be observant. That he had that layer of distance between himself and what he was doing by the time he walked down that hallway to shoot dead the only person in the world who had ever tried to understand him. He, who notices so much and studies so much of what Joker does and imitates him and envies him and spent every other second So Aware, because he needed to know everything about Joker to make sure he cornered him properly? That when it came to it, he could complete his plan? The plan he knew he never had a choice but to go through with? Doesnāt it drive you insane? Doesnāt it drive you insane? Doesnāt it just drive you insane?
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so, āgoro akechiā is a chosen name, right? thats always been my assumptionāi cannot see a man as particular, as careful (wellā¦) as him approaching shido with his birth name. shido knew his mother intimately, after all, he surely had her under strict enough watch to know her surname
additionally, i dont think you really wind up as a detective named after kogoro goddamn akechi by accident. goro was practically raised on tvāhis media consumption wove his idea of what an exceptional person is, what his ideal self became. naming himself after a fictional ideal is exactly the kind of thing akechi would do
if this were true, though, it certainly is not an alias; theres genuine identification with that name beyond potential obfuscation of his identity to shido
to be clear, im not supposing this with absolute conviction; goroāå¾éāmeans my son (as i understand), and while i can easily see this as an intentional choice to honour her, perhaps detracts significance from mamakechiās decision. but i still think it being a chosen name has narrative and thematic merit. it is worth consideration, at the very least
PLEASE spill the Makoto cop tea. I'm always down to hear people's thoughts on that
Thanks anon! I do my best to keep this blog positive-vibes only, but since you asked I will answer. Warning: DO NOT read this post if you do not want to see any criticisms about Makoto Nijima from P5 + discussions of police. This is not hate towards the character or her fans. It's just criticism for the writing choices and their implications for her.
Makoto Nijima does NOT want to reform the police. There's a mandela effect in the fandom where everyone seems to think she does, but rewatch her rank 10. Reform isn't mentioned at all. I'm so serious. What she actually says is this:
Within her confidant, the context is the host that was preying on her friend Eiko. Wanting to stop situations like that is good and makes sense š The writers framed her decision to become a cop as a response to the most clean-cut black-and-white situation ever.
But here's the thing though: what happens when the lawless and the victims are the same people? Because in the real world, crime tends to concentrate among the poor and marginalized. The real world is not black and white. And I try to separate my personal experiences with the law from the media/art I engage with, but that doesn't work here because the game at large doesn't portray society as black and white.
There are a number of people in this game that do wrong because they have been hurt or are marginalized or did not receive proper help. A lot of mementos requests are about 'lawless' people and yet many are portrayed as 'due to systemic issues' or a lack of support or developing mental illness. It's also not a coincidence that Akechi is the most marginalized of all the phantom thieves and he was the one who did the most crime. There is deliberate social commentary here. People do not become lawless out of nowhere. They are shaped by their circumstances. And the game itself sympathizes with these people, focusing on changing/ helping them. The game's conclusion is that providing support and rehabilitation is the solution. Rehabilitative justice > Punitive justice.
Police wouldn't achieve that. Police in the game are framed as corrupt and incompetent at their core. Our protagonist is one of their biggest victims to demonstrate how they are weaponized against the weak. Even Sae Nijima at the end of the story has shifted to become a defense attorney rather than attempting to reform it (best character arc btw) because she recognized that the system is broken. And you can't even blame it just on Shido controlling the police because we see that the problems persist beyond him. By the end of the story they remain useless or outright harmful. The police do not help or rehabilitate, they only punish.
So no, this isn't me projecting my personal issues with cops onto the story because within the game's own story, law enforcement is not the solution. If it were a question of reform, we could debate about whether police reform is possible, but again: Makoto doesn't care about reform. It never comes up. According to the writers, she wants to be a cop because she thinks not enough lawless people are being punished. You can argue that her wanting to 'head an organization' means she wants to be in a position of power where she can reform them, but remember that police only enforce the law. They do not make the law. If reform was her goal she would be a politician. (I honestly thought that's what she was set up to be, since she was student council president and all but I digress)
Also a small detail, but notice how she mentions destroying the lawless before she mentions helping victims? It's super minor but I think it's indicative of the cop mentality. There's greater priority on punishing than helping.
I also dislike this conclusion to her arc because it's net zero character growth. You're telling me the character that was rebelling against corrupt adults' orders is now becoming a cop, the biggest bootlicking profession of them all? She started the story being a well-intentioned pushover, and she's ending her story being a well-intentioned pushover. And it doesn't matter whether she as an individual is a good person or not. All cops comply to be active participants in a system that is designed to hurt the weak and prop up the powerful.
TLDR: You do not help victims by punishing the 'lawless'. You help victims by helping victims. Period. Makoto becoming a cop is a contradiction of this and her own character arc. Either the writers did her dirty by not thinking this through or this is meant to be who she really is, and both those possibilities upset me.
There was something really bothersome about Ryuji's dynamic with the Phantom thieves and how they all treat him that I think I finally figured out. (This one's really long sorry about that)
So Persona 4 and 3 both have the main character's first friend be this lovable dumbass everyone picks on (Youske and Junpie respectfully) Ryuji is supposedly the same. He has the best friend dynamic he bikers with Ann and she bickers back. Just like Yosuke and Chie or Junpei and Yukari. Except Ann and Ryuji's dynamic is a lot less in your face. It's there from time to time in certain scenes but it's Ryuji and Morgana who are the bickering pair. And this is where the major problem lies.
In the beginning, it's actually not that big of a deal. Ryuji, Morgana, Akiren, and Ann those four teases and play off each other but it's all reciprocated. Ann bickers with Ryuji, Ryuji bickers back, Morgan bickers with Ryuji, and he bickers back. Morgan flirts with Anna she laughs and ignores him but she's still friendly with him. Then Yusuke joins and he easily fits into this group of lovable dumbasses. Makoto being the smartest character is where this starts falling apart. She's the mom friend but the thing about her being portrayed as the mom friend is that it doesn't work when the only person she truly is always after is Ryuji. This is weird considering Ann is only slightly better with her grades than Ryuji. Of course, the game doesn't acknowledge that because Morgana is always simping after her.
But that's when the group really starts to feel cracks of disconnection. Makoto isn't teased back in any way. Morgana doesn't when he's feeling insecure, and neither does Ryuji do so after she joins. Then Futaba joins and while Ryuji does say a comment here and there about her being a hermit so does everyone else, yet she also picks on the teasing and turns it on solely Ryuji. Yet the game distracts from this one-sidedness that's slowly being formed by increasing the bickering between Morgana and him.
That distraction right there is what fundamentally makes this worse than the bickering of the last game. See Junpei and Yosuke always teased the new members of the team and they were teased back the same or were shut down. Furthermore, Junpei and Youske's teasing of their respective bickering buddies was played for comedy and in P3's case serves as one of the best Junpei moments. But that's the thing they sort of deserved the teasing back, Ryuji from Makoto forward is more or less just teased relentlessly without him really initiating anything. Actually in the dynamic that Junpei and Yosuke occupied Morgana fills in better than Ryuji does. He does tease everyone in one way or another and for it is always reminded of his kitty status. Ryuji is a lot more like Kanji in this friend group constantly being bullied by one character unprompted sometimes. The problem is no one really stops Mona and instead joins in and, unlike Kanji, never changes what Ryuji is being teased about.
@fanfiction-artist-prototype hi sorry i don't wanna go off in ops notes and annoy them but THIS. they really do feel like mere acquaintances. or more like... akechi and kasumi are heavily invested in akira (and he's invested in both of them) but that final point on the trio triangle isn't completed and won't be because. well. just no time i guess.
i made similar commentary in my p5r liveblogging but god it really shines through when they go out for drinks together at that one cafe. i know that's early in their relationship and might not be fair to compare to ryuji and ann who are childhood friends, but kasumi and akechi's relationship is SO utterly and entirely professional. (or at least in akechi's eyes it is?) kasumi seems to have a positive opinion of him, but when it comes down to talking they do the bare minimum of acknowledging each other before turning most of their focus unto akira. and then it just doesn't seem to change beyond that from what I've seen....
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i have pretty mixed feelings about the intro sequence to persona 5. (note: p5 is the only persona game iāve played yet so my opinions may be a bit uninformed)
on one hand itās absolutely a masterclass in complex storytelling and worldbuilding. starting in the biggest flashiest palace youāll visit in the game, right at the peak of the climax? itās truly genius. immediately i was hooked on my first playthrough and i was every bit as charmed by the sheer over-the-top aesthetic on my second. seeing akiraās oppression and bondage by the state when itās just reached the most violent and even life-threatening is a perfect way to set up the themes of the game and get you invested in your playable character. basically, all of the scenes in the interrogation room and the whole initial heist sequence are *chefās kiss* excellent.
my mixed feelings kind of start once we start the flashback though. the initial hook is definitely strong enough to keep me invested (ESPECIALLY in royal, i wasnāt expecting to see sumire so early on and iām already DYING to find out more about her) but gameplay-wise the section kind of drags on. in fairness thereās a lot of highly necessary tutorialization going on especially for newer players like me, but being so on-rails for so long can get a little frustrating. ive actually heard that the p5 intro is SHORTER than other persona games which is wild to me i canāt imagine how slowly the others must start. the moment im in the castle and see akira awaken his persona iām like DYING to explore the rest of it but instead you get a whole lot of long cutscenes, 3 extremely easy fights, and a path to the exit thatās pretty straightforward with no opportunities for exploration.
back on the positive side of things though, i do absolutely ADORE ryuji as a character and him being your first party member/friend in the game is so incredibly appropriate (pegoryu brain go brrrr). i think itās so cool how the thing that makes joker angry enough, rebellious enough to awaken his persona is just seeing this brash idiot in danger and desperately wanting the power to save him. ryuji maybe stops you a little too often to comment on little details of the palace that can be frustrating when you already know whatās going on, and the way he cuts off morgana every time he tries to explain anything can get a little obnoxious but i very much think that was the writersā way of characterizing him as fast as possible. ryuji canāt ever sit still, canāt keep quiet, canāt just accept all the fucked up shit theyāre seeing (like the dude in the cage who probably doesnāt even have like a real life equivalent). itās immediately obvious why he doesnāt fit in with japanese society, especially in high school where discipline seems STRICTLY enforced.
in this way heās immediately very distinct from akira, who despite his criminal past is much quieter and seems to have an easier time just āblending inā with society, despite his rebellious spirit deep down. itās also so refreshing after spending the first hour being hunted and beaten by cops, having sojiro and kobayakawa and practically everyone else on your ass 24/7. itās all very much something you and ryuji can both bond over. society has written off both of you as criminals or delinquents so i can easily imagine how kawakamiās warning to āstay awayā from ryuji because heās such a ābad influenceā would only make akira want to be his friend even more. so despite the slow beginning gameplay-wise i do very much appreciate how thoroughly the characters are developed and the strength of their bond is almost immediately very clear.
To be honest, I always had a gut feeling that this person would be the traitor partly because I had seen the teaser images for PQ2 with them included as part of the Phantom Thieves and given their background before theyĀ ājoinedā the group, they certainly seemed suspicious, but still thatās not really proof that this person was the traitor, so hereās a list of things that really helped prove that they were the culprit behind the mental shutdowns and the one who sold out the Phantom Thieves!
(I havenāt revealed their name or gender yet cuz I donāt wanna spoil anyone by accident, so selectĀ ākeep readingā at your own risk!)
1. Lurking at Okumura Foods
The first time the Phantom Thieves enter Okumuraās palace, Akechi is spotted nearby, and we can see him actually notice the Thieves gathered in front of the company building before the scene cuts to the Metaverse. At this point in the game it could be just a way to make us nervous since itās already been established that heās suspicious of the Shujin kids + Yusuke and Futaba, and him seeing them go into the Metaverse in front of a potential targetās property could make him even more suspicious and maybe even give him solid proof that they are the Phantom Thieves, but really, why is Akechi by the Okumura company building in the first place? Maybe itās a coincidence, or maybe heās just doing his job investigating Okumura as a suspect? In any case, it is quite convenient, especially that he happens to be there at the same time that the Thieves are, and more importantly, that this just happens to be the one palace that they infiltrate whose owner dies of a mental shutdown because the true culprit appears after the boss battle and kills his shadow. Iām probably grasping at straws, but in hindsight this does seem a bit fishy...
2. Interest in the Shujin Kids + Yusuke & Futaba (and Haru)
During the Shujin Academy panel, when Akechi reveals that he knows their identity as the Phantom Thieves, he tells the group that he was curious about them ever since the Madarame case. This could have been because Yusuke started hanging out with Ryuji, Ann, and Akira (and Morgana) around the time of the Madarame case, and not only would that have been odd because he didnāt go to the same school as them, but after a bit of digging it would have been known that a former pupil/victim of Madarame was hanging out with three Shujin students who had been victims of Kamoshida, who was the first target of the Phantom Thieves; logically that would have made for a pretty interesting group and it would have been a strange coincidence that Yusuke just happens to join those three when his tormentor gets a change of heart. But remember, Madarameās shadow was the first one to mention the true culprit behind the shutdowns, and talked about a Persona-user with a black mask. Kaneshiro, the next criminal to get a change of heart, also mentioned the culprit. Itās a bit odd that the time around which Akechi grew interested in the group coincides with the time that we first heard about the true culprit, who most likely could have even been in the palaces at the same time as the Thieves and maybe even saw them as they were exploring, particularly since in the Okumura palace, the culprit kills Shadow Okumura right after the Thieves defeat him and leave him behind, indicating that whoever they were, they must have been waiting inside the palace itself for the Thieves to weaken him and then leave so that they could finish the job. Again, probably grasping at straws, but itās kinda suspicious.
3. Sudden Thieves fan??
Okay he doesnāt really become a fan of the Phantom Thieves, but Akechiās stance towards them does soften somewhat after Okumuraās death when he adamantly says that they arenāt responsible for the incident or for any of the other mental shutdowns. This is a bit suspicious since before he seemed very convinced that the Phantom Thieves were connected to the mental shutdowns, and when his stance suddenly changes to the opposite, even Sae Nijima calls him out on it and points out the same thing. Not only that, but on his television appearance, he even comments that there may be more going on than originally thought, which is similarly suspicious and even indicates that he may actually know more than heās letting on. In addition, when he later runs into Akira at Leblanc again, he says something about how is goals are probably not so different from theirs, which a) hints at a possible collaboration between him and the Thieves, and b) indicates that he may also have his own agenda to get rid of scummy adults. The latter is actually confirmed later when heās talking with the Thieves in Leblanc, when he mentions wanting revenge against sickening human beings and having a grudge against someone, which puts more emphasis on the fact that there is some darker force behind Akechiās actions and motivation.Ā
4. Genius, or experienced?
During the Shujin Academy panel when Akechi confronts the Thieves and reveals how he found out their true identities, he says that he has the same power as them and that he gained that power around the time of the Okumura case, about a month before the panel. However, when heās talking to the Thieves, he seems to know quite a bit about the Metaverse, even mentioning it by name, which is odd because even members like Makoto and Futaba, who either pick up knowledge quite quickly or may have already had some knowledge of the cognitive world, needed time and guidance from Morgana and the veteran members of the Thieves in order to figure things out. And yet hereās Akechi, who was on his own the whole time, talking as though heās already an expert on the Metaverse- and how exactly did he know that thatās what the other world was called? Itās a bit strange, and even when heās exploring Saeās palace with the Thieves, he seems to know quite a lot already, or picks up on things abnormally quickly for someone whoās supposed to be anĀ āamateurā as Morgana would say. Speaking of Saeās palace, itās also a bit fishy how he was able to find out so quickly how to use the Meta-nav to find it, since he is the one who reveals to the group that she has a palace, and evidently already has a plan to change her heart. Basically, his intelligence aside, the only other viable reason I can think of for Akechiās extensive knowledge of the Metaverse is that he has more experience with it than he made it seem to the Phantom Thieves.Ā
5. Bad storyteller
I donāt know about you guys, but when Akechi was telling the Thieves about how he saw the real culprit behind the shutdowns and somehow survived their encounter by awakening his Persona, I wasnāt buying it. First, there's no proof that what heās saying is actually true, and also, if he's really going to be a bona fide monafide member of the Phantom Thieves, wouldnāt we actually get to witness his awakening the way we did with all the other members? Even Haru, who was in her Persona clothes already when we first saw her, got a real awakening scene for us to see, but thereās none of that for Akechi. Thatās not all though- itās already established that the true culprit is quite strong, in fact, back when Shadow Kaneshiro mentioned the culprit, he said that the Thieves would be no match for them in terms of strength. If thatās the case, how would Akechi have survived? Maybe the trauma of a life-or-death situation triggered his awakening and his Persona momentarily saved his life, but still the culprit could have taken another shot or two and killed him because heās still supposed to be relatively unfamiliar with his powers, and logically it would also be in the culpritās best interests to make sure to get rid of Akechi because he actually saw them and this could come back to bite them later. In any case, Akechiās story is only slightly believable at best in my opinion, and for me at least it definitely was a big hint.
6. Saeās calling card
Am I the only one who thought it was kind of weird that Akechi was so specific about the date that they should send out the calling card for Sae? I mean, yeah he gave that whole analysis of her character and why based on that it would be good to send the calling card closer to the deadline, but still, why did it have to be on the 18th? Why not the 17th or the 19th? After all, those dates are pretty close to the deadline as well. This just makes it more likely that Akechiās monologue about Sae is a clever ruse to hide the fact that he is planning his ownĀ āmissionā to mobilize the police to capture the Phantom Thieves in her palace on that date.Ā
7. The deal
One of the biggest indicators (in my opinion) that Akechi wouldnāt be a true member of the Phantom Thieves was his condition for cooperating with them: they disband after dealing with Saeās palace. If he genuinely was interested in joining them or working together towards justice, he wouldnāt be giving them such an ultimatum. He does say that he wants to work with them because the mission would not be able to succeed without their cooperation, but even that comment is a bit sketchy because his referring to aĀ āmissionā could even mean that he has an ulterior motive, some otherĀ āmissionā that heās trying to carry out besides taking away Saeās distorted desires. Anyway, because he generally did not approve of the Thieves and his motivation for working with them was questionable at best, it makes sense that he would have been the one to betray them.
8.Ā Delicious Pancakes:
Finally, the most meme-ishĀ canon hint that Goro Akechi is the traitor! This is basically the incident that tips off Akira and the Phantom Thieves that they should be suspicious of Akechi when he wants to make a deal and work with them later in the game. Itās one of those hints that you can catch when it happens (which is far earlier than the deal and whole traitor business), but itās subtle enough that you do need to be paying some attention to whatās going on at the time, especially since itās covered up well by Ryujiās convincing response to Akechi that nope, no one was talking about pancakes, and the fact that no one actually addresses it afterwards until months later when the story is close to its climax. But even if you did forget that Morgana was the only one talking about pancakes and how delicious they were, you would have to wonder why Akechi was so specific about having heard someone say ādelicious pancakesā when it sounds nothing like what Ryuji and Ann were talking about before he arrived on the scene. From the early-game standpoint, itās an indicator that given the fact that he heard Morgana, Akechi probably isnāt the normal high-school detective that he appears to be, but after progressing to the later part of the game, itās proof that Akechi could hear and understand Morgana from the very beginning, and therefore was another Metaverse user; he was the true culprit behind the mental shutdowns.Ā
Welp, that was long, but if you got this far, thanks so much and I hope you enjoyed reading! :D
Bonus hint: Akechi literally is a long-haired alternate dimension version of Light Yagami, I mean of COURSE heās the crazy criminal masquerading as a detective/ordinary student! XDĀ
(Also no one asked but Futaba sits a lot like L so it really is like Light vs. L again except this time L WINS!!)
