#naruto thoughts

I can't help it. No matter how much time passes, I somehow always return to the era of the Warring States Period and its corresponding chapters. The themes, the characters, the tragedy - it's just peak.

It's so damn short (too damn short) and yet all the little details we do see/are shown, say so much. A small detail I've always enjoyed is how young Madara's clothes seem far too big for him. It's a minor, inconsequential design choice, but I think it really helps convey the themes that Madara and Hashirama are beginning to explore as they come to know each other.

They recognize that they are both children who are forced to live in a world where they're ultimately expected to kill and be killed like men. Childhood is nonexistent here, it's a foreign concept - there's no time for such luxuries amid war. That Madara's outfit doesn't quite 'fit' him yet and he obviously hasn't 'grown into it' symbolically calls back to this horrific reality... and then it makes you wonder, how many young Senju and Uchiha never fully 'grow into' their clothing or armor?

Granted this could just be a classic/historical Japanese clothing nod that I have no reference for/am looking too deeply into (and, of course, there are other characters who also wear baggier clothing simply for 'style'), but where's the fun in that, lol?

Personally, I also like to view this design choice for Madara as a way of hinting at 'hand-me-down' culture which is something often explored when it comes to the Uchiha in particular. The idea that 'your brother can't use this anymore, so now it's yours' and how it could thematically connect to this greater phenomenon of the Uchiha passing their eyes/light to one another... I don't know, it's just good stuff haha.

And then, knowing that Madara shared Hashirama's progressive (for their time) values, I often think about what ideological clashes Madara might have been processing during this period - both within himself and against/with those in his clan (especially since we are never directly shown such things). Regardless of how he truly feels and by nature of his role/the brutality of the era he lives in, he is essentially doomed to watch his only surviving brother (who looks like he still bears baby fat when we're first introduced to him, by the way - I don't know about anyone else, but to me Izuna and Tobirama both look exceptionally young during the river confrontation) grow into his armor and fight alongside him.

Madara would know that, logically, Izuna fitting into his armor means prolonged protection and safety, but emotionally, wouldn't it bother him to see his brother fully enter into a world where he has to fight? A world where Madara might not always be there to protect him and keep him safe? A world where he never gets that childhood Madara and Hashirama have dreamt for kids to one day have? The moment Izuna puts on his armor and begins to know it as a second skin, he inadvertently confirms the ugliness in the world that Madara hates the most.

In that way, something as simple/minor as being given the barely worn jacket a deceased older brother used to wear or the fact that child-sized armor not only exists at this point in time in shinobi history but is considered a necessity, would be all the more reason for Madara to damn and judge the cruel world around him.

Idk, just in general I will always wish that we had gotten Madara's unfiltered recollection of these same events, at least to have them in contrast/complement to Hashirama's. While I think, given what we do have, Hashirama's retelling is likely the most accurate version of a 'past Madara' (especially since he knows Madara so intimately), there are/will always be things he just simply can't know or understand about his friend... and that then leaves so many of these lingering threads/questions unanswered and underexplored.

We know, for example, that Hashirama struggled once Madara's true identity was revealed to him and it became all but guaranteed that either the two of them or their families would one day clash, but how did Madara handle it? And what did it mean to those around him when news spread that he had awakened his sharingan not in battle or with the death of a dear one, but when he swore/chose to completely remove Hashirama from his life (someone who brought him joy, connection, and acknowledgement) in order to protect his family?

Did Izuna, back then, know what awakening the sharingan truly meant? Reexamining his reaction, he seems to be in awe of this change when he notices his brother's eyes. Similarly, we see with young Sasuke in his flashbacks that he talks about Itachi's sharingan with pride only to be later told by his father that he's 'too young' to be thinking about things associated with the sharingan...

Sure, they're both 'excited' reactions/responses from children in relation to a legendary skill important to their bloodline, but it makes me wonder if the true nature/meaning behind the sharingan is something that only those who have awoken it ever speak to one another about. While it of course equates to strength and the ability to better outlast your enemy, symbolically it also carries an intense (often painful) emotional weight with it too. I've always enjoyed the idea that, while it's inevitable children and outsiders might view the sharingan and its related rumors as this great 'wonderful' achievement, only those who have actually experienced the awakening within themselves can really understand its true nature and that, given the unforgiving world they live in, those eyes are often reflections of great anguish, despair, and grief.

Something, something, older members of the clan having a more reserved/bittersweet view of the sharingan where it is acknowledged as an advantage that will hopefully lead/contribute to the preservation of their clan/loved ones but it also symbolizes the loss of innocence that can never be restored.

How did learning this then shape Izuna's perception of his brother's sharingan over time? Once he awakened his own and knew the cost/impact it had on him, did his understanding of what Hashirama meant to Madara begin to make more sense? Or did it confuse him even more because he couldn't fathom anyone, let alone his brother, caring so deeply about a Senju?

Again, idk. I'm just yapping, lol.

What really annoys me are the pro-Uchiha fans. They’re the ones who made me hate that clan even more, even more than the Hyūga. I’ve never understood the argument that “the village isolated them.” From what I remember in the manga, there isn’t a single scene where they’re treated with hostility—in fact, they were often shown respect and admiration. The ones who were truly marginalized were Naruto and the other jinchūriki. And if Kishimoto was capable of showing that kind of treatment, then why didn’t he show it happening to the Uchiha?

I’m not a Konoha fan or anything, but the last time someone told me that “the Uchiha were isolated and marginalized,” I asked which manga panel showed that… and all I got in return were insults; They’re just as unbearable as the Hinata and Sakura fans the worst part of the fandom

Hi anon!

Then allow me to give you another perspective. I assume you already read that post about Tobirama. I explain that the Uchiha clan was denied political power. When the first Hokage was supposed to be chosen, he stated that the Hokage had to be selected by popular opinion and that the village should be administered democratically. I guess that didn’t last long, since he named Hiruzen himself as Hokage, and his students were very much opposed to granting the Uchiha clan any power. He suggested an election because he knew Madara wouldn’t be chosen. This already shows an early sign of isolation. In that panel, Koharu clearly doesn’t want to share her power with the Uchiha. Her remark, "Want to usurp our power," clearly indicates that Konoha is no longer being administered democratically.

Remember that during Tsunade's leadership, Shikaku is asked for his opinion on the future Hokage and allowed to participate in the councils regarding the upcoming war. If Shikaku can have some political power, then why not the Uchiha clan?

In that post, I explain that Fugaku wanted Itachi to be the bridge between the clan and the existing power structure. However, the fact that the Uchiha were ready to initiate a revolution proves that plan didn't work. Additionally, it’s clear that the elders of Konoha—who are all surprisingly Tobirama's students—don’t want to share “their power” that was assigned to them by Tobirama. They’re essentially just continuing what Tobirama taught them.

So they’re being denied political power not once, but twice. And since the elders refuse to give the Uchiha a political voice, what’s their solution? A massacre—dare I say, a genocide...

"The Uchiha clan will not be dissuaded"… Ah yes, because the elders didn’t just stick to their positions, right?

A while ago, I made a post about Naruto. He has been treated with fear and hate, and the villagers clearly despised him. I’m very aware that poor Naruto (as well as B and Gaara) was shunned, ostracized, and hated by his village. He had to fight to prove his worth and be treated as a human. However, I believe the Uchiha were ostracized in a different way. They were denied political power and a voice twice, which is already an act of isolation. The Uchiha were a founding clan, just like the Senju. So why are they treated differently from the Senju?

My second point is that the Uchiha are closely associated with the police because Tobirama decided it. Orochimaru, who is far from being an angel, called him out on that matter, and Hashirama wasn’t happy about it either.

So he gave the police to the Uchiha clan and built the prison near the police station... Did you see any other clan have a role like that? Some clans specialize in certain fields of shinobi arts, but it’s not the same as being specifically assigned the police force.

From Sasuke's point of view, we see that very few Uchiha have taken on other jobs. Itachi being in the Anbu is actually an exception.

The Uchiha are so used to being part of the police that they don’t allow themselves to pursue anything else. It sounds to me like they accepted the role imposed on them by Tobirama without question. Let’s not forget that it was also a way for him to control them... not very nice.

Tobi confirms that the police force was, in truth, one of the problems between the village and the Uchiha. He’s basically reinforcing Orochimaru's words. The police force was one of the reasons the Uchiha started to feel discontent with the village. The rebellious spirit didn’t emerge out of nowhere; it had its roots in Tobirama’s reign, much like the isolation.

The situation worsened after the second attack of the Kyubi. That’s when the isolation became unbearable for the clan.

There’s a reason we’re told that and not shown—it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. We’re seeing things through Sasuke’s eyes. He was just a little child when the massacre occurred and kept in the dark by his father, mother, and brother. Even Itachi's perspective doesn't reveal that, as he chose the village and Sasuke over the clan. He’s a victim of the system himself, yet he agreed to it. Even later, he continues to do so, even after his death. It’s a sad reality.

What we are shown, however, is that Sasuke is just as alone and isolated as Naruto. This was perfectly depicted in the first part (panel 1), and his isolation parallels Naruto’s (panel 2). You can see spider webs in Sasuke's kitchen, and there are plenty of panels illustrating that he’s on his own. He lives alone; nobody checks in on him. When he wakes up in the hospital after the first Tsukuyomi, he finds himself alone in his own home. When he leaves, it’s Sakura who finds him, having been the one to keep watch. He doesn’t have someone like Iruka to pay attention to him and care for him (Iruka being the first one to acknowledge and appreciate Naruto for who he is). If that doesn’t scream social isolation, I don’t know what does.

Later, in the Valley of the End (Vote2), Sasuke realizes that people shunned him because he’s the last Uchiha. And isn’t he right? If the Uchiha were admired and liked in the village, then why is he always alone? Why aren’t we shown anyone talking to him politely or trying to help?

More recently, I explained in another ask that Naruto and Sasuke paralled one another in the way the village treats them. They’re both dehumanized by the village. Sasuke is sort of a reverse mirror to Naruto. He’s “admired” by the village for being the last Uchiha. They literally came to watch him fight during the Chunin Exams with little regard for his safety. In comparison, Naruto is known as “the demon fox” or “the fox boy” and is hated for it. But that doesn’t mean Sasuke’s situation is any better. You can see the spectators asking about Sasuke, “Where’s the Uchiha?” They just want to see him fight.

And you know what Orochimaru does? He takes advantage of that excitement and objectification to get what he wants. Plus, it’s his words that convinced Hiruzen to postpone the match. It’s heresy. Under different circumstances, Sasuke would have been simply eliminated.

I'm not sure of the order of the pictures, but I think you understand the message. Orochimaru's statement is absolutely true. Everyone is excited about the idea of Sasuke fighting, being the last Uchiha, and Orochimaru confirms that the lords feel the same way, with Hiruzen not even denying it.

I should add that there are orphanages in the village. Kabuto was in one of them before Danzo and Orochimaru decided to shut them down. Kakashi, as far as I remember, was also isolated after his father's death—the father who committed suicide because the village ostracized him. Konoha is well known for these issues.

Haku about Zabuza: Don't touch Zabuza-san with your dirty hands.

Naruto about Sasuke: I won't let him lay a finger on Sasuke

Hinata about Naruto: I won't let you lay another finger on Naruto.

Hashirama about Madara: I won't allow you to lay a hand on him

Gaara headcanon! I see the sand siblings as egyptian ^_^

well, originally, I was pretty sure it was very much accidental. but the more i look at it, the more i am convinced there is no way Kishimoto wasn't aware of how alike they look.

Iruka was one of the first characters to be created, and he was redesigned shortly after and given a different hairstyle and the scar

side not: i love that this translation refers to his hair as a "bun" lol

then, I can't find any sources on how early the other three hokages were designed, but considering the hokage rock is the first thing we see in chapter 1 of Naruto, it had to be early on. that means that Kishimoto redesigned Iruka and then designed the hokage rock, knowing that both of them were going to feature in the first chapter

at this point, it might have been a coincidence. the crack on Hashirama's face just happens to look like Iruka's scar and the hitaiate/headband just made them look a bit similar. but specially in these first few chapters, i can't believe that Kishimoto didn't at least notice that they kinda look similar.

and even if he didn't and was 100% oblivious to it, i believe someone would have pointed it out to him. and i am very sure of this because by the time the anime adaptation rolled around, i think the decision was made to sorta lean into them looking a bit similar.

the choice of colors for both Iruka and Hashirama in the anime (giving them brown eyes/hair and darker skin than most characters), as well as how the simplified version of Hashirama's face feature the crack on the nose so prominently feels intentional. these are details that could have been corrected or retconned very early on, but the fact that they stuck around for the animated version makes them feel deliberate.

there's no way the people animating this didn't know what they were doing. they gave them the same kicked puppy look and everything

comparisons courtesy of @ irukadaily on twt

overall, there's not many character in Naruto that look as similar as Iruka and Hashirama do without them being related. the only other two characters who look extremely alike for no reason are Shisui and Mirai, and i do not know what to think about that one. so we will not talk about that for now.

other than that, Rock Lee textually makes an effort to look like Gai, and other vague resemblances like Ino and Deidara and Kakashi and Tobirama are not similar enough for me to feel that it was done 100% on purpose. (tho i do wonder about Tobirama's character design sometimes)

but why exactly would they choose to do this? i think it fits thematically. Hashirama founded the village with the will of fire, and Iruka is pretty much a representation of that as a character. it kinda goes hard to have Iruka resemble Hashirama, in that sense. he is the will of fire! literally! it's the type of thing that as a writer makes you go "wait, am i cooking??" when you first come up with it.