#mscollywogs

(2/2) what the French dialogue is like. Is Heloise also talking about love there, or is there a stronger intonation of sex?

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When she says “what is it like” i think she truly talks about being in love, but then she says “i mean how does it feel like ?”(je veux dire, qu’est-ce-que ça fait ?”) and that could have a more sexual meaning. I actually didn’t hear it at first, but i read a comment about it and then i realized that it could also have that meaning. So it’s definitely both, she could have asked what being in love feels like in her heart but also how does it feel to have sex. 

But that second meaning isn’t very clear and not explicit at all. So it’s not a strong intonation of sex as you said aha. I think most people, like me, understood that line as “how does it feel like to be in love ?”. But i’m sure some other people heard it immediately as a question about sex aha. 

There was a place where Céline said that the cut was explicitly written into the script, but I don't remember where.

The place to start, though, is Céline talking about her writing process for Portrait of a Lady on Fire at the BAFTA Screenwriters' Lecture Series:

I wanted to take the bonfire scene also because, well, it kind of embodies the things I’ve been telling you, you see the initial desires, women singing in the night to an unknown tune, the character actually set on fire, the fact that there are no bridges between these two scenes it’s just this hand thing and there’s another day and we don’t need it, we’re trying not to use this. Not bad!

I recommend reading the whole thing, it's great. The way Céline wrote Portrait involved a process of outright eliminating any scenes she couldn't make herself desire to see/shoot and so cutting out the intervening in-movie time between the matched cuts was part of that.

My own personal aha! moment occurred in a conversation with @oyesiam1 :

So to return to the editing that leads up to The Kiss, the one that so threw me off, @oyesiam1 pointed out to me that the flashback is indeed a recounting, a memory, as the apparition of Heloise in the wedding dress appearing periodically to taint the recollection reminds us. And that if we see the editing as a function/reflection of Marianne’s memory, we can understand that she vividly remembers the night at the bonfire–the moment in time when physical desire starts to grow and grow towards cresting–and then rushing over to give Heloise her hand and that, given how the edit immediately matches the way that the next day she and Heloise touched descending down the cliffs, we can understand this as Marianne pretty much completely forgetting whatever the day held between the moment she and Heloise touched that bonfire night to her brain and memory, in a daze/cloud (of desire, urgency, being emotionally overwhelmed?), cutting right to the culmination of that desire, to the contact, to the kiss.

I was like: THAT’S FRIGGIN’ BRILLIANT.

That desire, that need to touch Heloise, to kiss her, was just so intense that Marianne’s own memory erased everything else in between the moments she and Heloise finally touched with intent and attraction and actual intimacy. I love that. Friggin’ brilliant!

And recently @tonovember dropped wisdom on me in conversation that made the scene more beautiful to me:

It's a great cut. The night to day, the movement of pull to right then pull to left, the time passage within that cut, unspoken yet understood. I just love that dance of a pull to the right match cut to a pull to the left. They literally danced through the cut.

The moment is the first time Marianne and Heloise touch outside of all professional pretexts, so it's loaded in every way with how it occurs after the build up of mutual desire and then the silent communication of their desire across the fire.

You know the random thought I did have? I was like: At what point did Heloise or Marianne close the door? Because Marianne did not close the door when she stepped into the room and saw Heloise waiting for her. lol

I guess it doesn’t matter to me if Sophie knew or didn’t know. Like I don’t know what the parameters of assumptions are, how much is Known or Not Known, how much is Assumed or Not Assumed, like Anne Lister having Mariana Lawton nee Belcombe sleep in her bed whenever Mariana stayed over. How many people assumed there were sex was happening and not just sleeping? XD Maybe Sophie thinks Heloise needed a good (platonic) cuddle. (Honestly, where even were Sophie’s quarters located?? lol)

But if Sophie knew, what a true bro. I do love that look Sophie gave Marianne when Marianne saw the handyman at the table. Just how it screamed, “Alert! Alert! Status quo reinstated!!!”

Also soft thirsting for the possibility of Marianne having previously slept with women. That would give an additional layer of interest to the "we are in exactly the same position" scene, because Marianne delivers her compliments in that low, sultry, seductive voice in a way that's almost practiced, like she's gotten plenty of models into bed before and not only is she surprised that Heloise is looking back at her in the artistic sense, she's also surprised Heloise is refusing to fall into the role of the seduced - she's not refusing the seduction, but she is refusing Marianne's self-appointment as the active seducer working on the passive seduced. And Marianne can't handle that and gets too nervous, lol. Marianne also having experience with women would just add so much to the drama of her difficulty accepting how in love with Heloise she is - the drama is not from it being new but how powerfully and therefore terrifyingly "in flames" she is for Heloise.

I feel like the way Marianne delivers the first of the “you pose beautifully” etc lines doesn’t sound actively seductive. They sound almost rote or bored, like in a drawl. It’s why the last line “You are beautiful” lands so hard because of the way Marianne takes the time to meet Heloise’s gaze when she says it and it feels like finally, this line, Marianne is saying directly to Heloise. And those lines are so charged that it always felt less seductive, to me, and more vulnerable. Almost akin to the way Heloise said “but I also felt your absence.” Like you’re showing your cards, but just a quick flash, you’re not ready to lay them out on the table.

I guess for me Portrait never felt like a “seduction,” as in one truly actively pursuing the other, but a sense of mutual discovery--both of the other person and of oneself. And there’s never any “gay panic,” so to speak, on anyone’s part, which is one of the joys of the film. It’s never about “I am attracted to a woman?!” but “oh, I have feelings for this person and how do I communicate those feelings and could it be that those feelings are returned and will I act on those feelings?” I mean, whether it’s with men or women, Marianne is “more experienced” however you cut it and yet it never felt, to me, that that was ever actually in the equation. I think because of how Céline built Marianne to never condescend. Again, it’s an emphasis on Marianne’s privilege rather than any superiority, so when Marianne discovers Heloise has never heard an orchestra, Marianne’s reaction isn’t derision but this very gentle desire to try to communicate what that is like. Marianne is very much about sharing what she can: the book, tobacco (lol), music, being honest about her own experiences (yes, she’s had an abortion, which leads us to know she’s had sex), the way they mix paint together and so we know Marianne has invited Heloise in Marianne’s place, even the way she’s open to trying drugs because Heloise wants to (lol). I think Heloise is always constantly surprising her and challenging Marianne’s point of view (and privilege), but Marianne is open to that. She doesn’t take offense; she recognizes Heloise’s criticisms and interpretations as springboards to reevaluate and reconsider. (It’s really quite attractive.) Which is why Heloise’s criticisms about the first portrait actually have an effect, because Marianne is willing to hear them.

Which is all to say that I don’t think I see Marianne seeing herself as seducer in these circumstances (because I’m not sure there was an active seduction, so to speak). I think she is rising to the small challenges that Heloise sets for her and that they come to understand more and more how the other’s mind and humor work and where their feelings lie. It’s so much a film about arriving to meet in the middle. Even their first kiss is framed so that they approach from both sides of the screen and meet smack dab in the middle of the screen and though there’s some push and pushback, they end up back in the middle of the frame.

THAT IS SO ADORABLE

Youre jpb sounds really challenging!

replied to your post

“It's weird to think about the possibility of putting social media...”

Especially important if an account has any value like a lot of followers and is in any way involved in a business, redirecting traffic, etc

Oh for sure! I’d even apply that possibility to just “random” or low-traffic blogs. Just like I might go through a period of whimsy and sadness when I see an inactive fic (there are tons of those), I do appreciate a note (whether it’s the last chapter, or through the author’s bio page) about the status of things (aka, I’m going on permanent hiatus, or this fic no longer works for me, but I won’t take it down, but I won’t update it either). I mean, borrowing from G.I.Joe - knowing is half (or more than half) of the battle, and probably cuts down on a lot of questions such as (where did (blogger) go?) or what has happened to (blog title)?