hey megabuild can you elaborate on the complicated feelings re: bdubs apologizing to tango thing because I too have feelings about it that are complicated and i either need you to confirm I'm insane, confirm I'm not insane or make my insanity feel more enabled
(cracks my knuckles loudly and uncomfortably) the number one c!bdubs defender has logged on for another take hated by all
i think the most key thing to take away from this interaction is not that bdubs is being manipulative and dishonest but that it very clearly lays out the main issues with tuff guys' ability to function, that is, they all have different goals and ideals of what an alliance should function as, but also they have far too much baggage and history that they are all either unable to or unwilling to move on from.
looking at this conversation and taking it at face value- that is, bdubs went in with the intent to manipulate and lie, and then immediately caved when called out- is extremely uncharitable at best when similar behaviours from other players (such as scar) is often handwaved away as them playing the game correctly or exhibiting trauma responses. why these players are afforded such leniency while bdubs never is.. well, that's simply a mystery because i can't think of anything that immediately and obviously might set bdubs aside from the majority of his peers (hint: there is.). this coupled with the fact that bdubs has spent the first two sessions making genuine, if extremely flawed attempts at communication and problem-solving (see: horse discourse, which DID actually work though only after etho defused and approached it on his own terms, and the formation of tuff guys, which is an extremely flawed plot but also tackles the main issues at the core of the alliance- etho's commitment issues, tango's fear of betrayal, and bdubs' reputation) and i find it extremely difficult to believe that this conversation is entirely made up to gain some sort of leverage, because by saying that one must imply that retroactively both of those prior conversations were also probably in part manipulation- at which point we're painting bdubs as a multi-session plotting mastermind and that's just not who he is.
reading over the transcript there's a few key points that i think are really important-
bdubs comments that he's truly apologising, because he apologises in last life (poorly, but still) right after the matter, saying "he's sorry, but he had to". not in any way justifying his treatment of tango in last life, because moments before he also calls him fodder, but this gives us some insight into what bdubs is thinking- that is, it is likely he DOES feel genuinely bad about tango, or at least is able to acknowledge that they need to resolve their prior conflicts if they have any hope of succeeding. otherwise, there is little point in bringing such conflict to the forefront of tango's mind; that's manipulating him in the wrong direction by reminding him of his past traumas and giving him more ammo against bdubs. strategically i cannot understand why he would do this (outside of from a creator standpoint having more drama to mess with, because cc!bdubs is known for this, but if i get into the very murky territory between cc and c here it'll stretch everything out a million miles longer).
bdubs also barely gets a chance to defend himself after his initial apology is not accepted- tango is the one who builds up a "self reflection hole", both immediately dismiss it as manipulation (they are the first ones to suggest this, not bdubs!), and they pick on small tells such as him not having his head down and smiling as proof that he isn't genuine. indeed, when bdubs goes into the hole he asks them to come up with a plan since he won't be leading them, and tango openly laughs at them, signalling to Me that there was never any chance of genuine communication; tango has already made his mind up from the get-go that this is bdubs fucking with him and is unwilling to take it any further. (the phrase "i'm not going to perform my rock bottom for you for the sake of being believed" comes to mind.) it's only after this sentiment is echoed (more unsurely) by etho that bdubs gives up. at no point does bdubs add anything of his own to the conversation past this, he only agrees with what tango and etho are saying about him. with his attempt at communication having failed he defers to "yes and"-ing all the negative things they are saying about him. when bdubs has just spent most of secret life imo proving that he doesn't need to be dependent on others after being dismissed as such for multiple seasons, i think that immediate rejection of his independence and ability to stand up for himself must sting, a lot.
I know they're his teammates but jesus christ he could not have picked worse people to do this with. every character can be assumed to be extremely traumatised as is the nature of the game but etho and tango both have severe issues with communication and trust, both of which stem in part from bdubs' actions in last life (which again, i will defend him to the grave but that was fucking insane of him.) tango on the whole, however, is a character to me defined by his bitterness, especially in WL where he's acting out and being openly cruel to others (which given his previous experiences is honestly understandable). his immediate dismissal of bdubs is exactly what i would have expected of him given everything right now. meanwhile, etho is more cautious and unsure, only committing once he has tango's backing, because despite his issues with bdubs he has more reason to believe him (see: horse discourse once again) and also he's just extremely insecure. go girl.
little to say on this point but the bravado he exhibits after being dismissed also to me reads in line with other bdubs moments where he's putting on a show- he isn't gloating about pulling the wool over their eyes or laughing about how quickly he was found out, he's just.. bigging himself up for the sake of it? i don't know exactly how to word this point but i hope you understand.
tl:dr; i don't think bdubs is intentionally trying to manipulate people here, though i also don't think his timing and choice of apology was especially well-thought out; he's making a lot of attempts at genuine communication this season, for better or for worse, but it's coming from a place of recognising the necessity for it if he wants to get anywhere rather than a sign of genuine emotional growth. and while i wish they could have heard him out i do not fault etho or tango even for a second for assuming it was a ploy.










