#kinopioa

Angel Island's mythos would've changed given the amount of time that passed between it's creation after Chaos rampaged, it's literally going to diverge from being separate from the initial ancestral site (which is now Mystic Ruins)

Similarly all murals we see in both the past and Lost World don't show the 3K prophecy. Likely cuz that was made much later, well after Angel Island was formed

The other issue is even trying to circumnavigate that and saying "well he discovered them separately later" would require Gerald interact with Angel Island. Which A, would've absolutely contradicted Knuckles remaining tribe of never seeing other sentient beings, and B, would've definitely been noted by Shadow's game and Battle GBA, neither of which do, C, the discovery of a flying island is way too important/miraculous to keep from the public for profit, or reap for resources

Mystic Ruins being researched and noted for Chaos' connection to the Artifical Chaos? Valid and stated

Super Sonic being Shadow's base? No, it's just Hoshino/Uekawa wanting to make him cool, especially given the redesign was done AFTER script

Perfect Chaos being Biolizard's case? While Gerald actually could've seen the mural, surprisingly not! Biolizard is entirely due to being based on lizards and amphibians reproducing limbs, which given his research on immortality for Maria... https://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_Adventure_2_-_The_Truth_of_50_Years_Ago…

This is like when people thought the Ancient Civilization that created the Gizoid were echidnas entirely cuz of Chronicles, despite Battle GBA never saying that, just leaving it blank since Emerl wiped them out completely. It got too accepted of a theory

Like it's a fun theory, but not it

Okay I actually wasn't going to respond to this because you come out the gate being sort of rude but I at least wanted to validate your ask by reading through it. But it's long, and there were faster, easier asks to read/reply to, so I put it off until now.

Since this was long enough ago, this was in response to this and this. And another post I can't seem to find. (Originally, I linked the same post twice, whoops)

The main issue I take with your wall of text is you put words in my mouth.

assuming that the murals for SS and Chaos were made at the same time is incredibly naive

And if you go back and read the two posts, I never actually say when they were made, just that they existed. The murals were made hundreds, possibly even thousands of years ago. And it almost doesn't matter when they were made. You kind of can't make a timeline given Sonic games never really give a specific year on when any of this takes place, but for the sake of argument we could say it's something like

800 AD: Echidna society discovers the emeralds.

825 AD: Echidna society grows to learn that the emeralds have some kind of beneficial power (clairvoyance? strength? who knows). Perhaps scholars see visions of future events and keep records of these visions in secret chambers. Or, perhaps, they learn of them from communicating with "The God of Destruction" that watches over the emeralds.

850 AD: War for control of the emeralds power between different Echidna tribes leads to the God of Destruction disaster. Most of Echidna society is wiped out and Tikal's dying (?) prayer separates the emeralds and quarantines the Echidna homeland where nobody can cause another disaster like that again, forming what becomes known as "Angel Island."

851 AD: Maybe some of the last few remaining terrestrial Echidna, perhaps from a rival tribe, make records of the God of Destruction disaster. Multiple copies of these records probably exist, and they reach as far as the edge of the tribe's domain at the end of the jungle, perhaps simply to serve as a warning for future generations not to mess with that thing.

1948 AD: Professor Gerald is conscripted by The President of the United Federation (or whatever) to conduct dark scientific research into immortality. Gerald only agrees on the grounds he hopes it will cure his granddaughter of her rare degenerative disease.

1949 AD: Professor Gerald somehow learns enough of Ancient Echidna culture that he begins trying to recreate their legends in search of something he refers to as "The Ultimate Lifeform." How this pertains to immortality is unknown. This leads to the creation of Chaos Drives, The Biolizard, Artificial Chaos, and Shadow the Hedgehog. These are all byproducts or direct replications of things described in Ancient Echidna lore.

1950 AD: The government/military grows to fear Gerald's discoveries and attempt to seize control of his projects. While specifically trying to capture Shadow, his granddaughter is shot and killed in the commotion. The grief from her death drives Gerald insane, considering all the sins against nature he committed for her sake.

1951 AD: Somehow Gerald regains access to Shadow and reprograms/brainwashes him with false memories to enact a suicide plot that will cause an extinction level event on planet earth. Gerald is discovered, captured, and sentenced to execution by firing squad for his conspiracy. This may have actually been part of Gerald's plan, given what we see later. Shadow is placed into cold storage to be forgotten.

1994 AD: In the process of chasing down Dr. Eggman (Professor Gerald's grandson), Sonic the Hedgehog ends up on Angel Island, in one of its deepest sanctuaries (Hidden Palace), where he witnesses an ancient mural depicting two figures clashing over a giant emerald, and those figures bare a vague resemblance to Eggman and himself. Less than an hour later, Sonic is living this prophecy.

1999 AD: Dr. Eggman apparently separately researches Ancient Echidna lore and this leads him to straight up release the God of Destruction from its prison within the Master Emerald. Station Square is basically wiped off the face of the map, but Sonic neutralizes the being's anger in the end.

2001 AD: Somehow in no way related to the previous incident, Dr. Eggman's next project just so happens to involve the result of his Grandfather's research into Ancient Echidna lore. Eggman releases Shadow from maximum security military cold storage and he immediately sets about carrying out Gerald's extinction plot, stringing Eggman along until he gets what he needs out of him. At the last second, Shadow realizes what he's doing is wrong, and nearly kills himself in the process of setting things right.

These are not real years. This is just to illustrate how far apart these events are in time.

It genuinely does not matter when the records were originally made, what matters is that it was "a really long time ago."

...would require Gerald interact with Angel Island. Which A, would've absolutely contradicted Knuckles remaining tribe of never seeing other sentient beings

I mean, it's a big island. There are a lot of ways strangers could enter the island, collect resources, and then leave undetected, never to return. But you're right insofar as we don't know where Gerald got his information. That's a bit presumptuous on my part, but again: have some fun, you nerd. It's not like these games are always air-tight with their narratives.

Biolizard is entirely due to being based on lizards and amphibians reproducing limbs, which given his research on immortality for Maria

I mean, yes, if you want to split hairs about this, that's the plain text of what Rouge's report says. But given a confluence of other factors around the Biolizard's existence, and the fact it was codenamed "the prototype of the ultimate lifeform" it's pretty easy to connect the dots that Gerald incorporated other research and the whole "salamanders regenerate limbs" was simply one piece of a larger body of work being referenced into developing the creature.

It literally roars like Perfect Chaos, it literally hangs around the ARK's replica shrine... you think genetic research into salamanders is going to create a being that can shoot energy from its mouth and harness the Chaos Emeralds? C'mon, dude.

So then Meph has to try to get Elise to release Iblis on her own terms. Problem is...06 had to rushedly move away from Maekawa's concept of Meph being the other Project Shadow capsule that was scrapped in SA2's concept, much like his initial concept for Blaze not being based on Rush

Meaning he and Blaze awkwardly are in final aimless for the most part

I do find it funny people can't accept Elise not crying most her life. The tale of royalty being emotionally repressed is old as dirt, same with her being too busy to have friends

Bonus, OP OC

Oh, WOW.

>When people remark on that this lovely scene of Metal realizing he's not the original after dipping his hand in the vat of the virus shows Ian making Metal into an actual character

The actual writer of that short story:

Just....sigh...

You know, when someone who's not a fan can write Metal Sonic better than the so-called fan, there's something wrong.

Also what do you want him to do? Simply decline and continue doing the same almost brain dead thing till death?

I kind of have to agree to disagree on that. Like you said before, Silver had been fighting Iblis for a long time - long enough to feel hopeless in his evendour against the mindless beast. But think about Mephiles' design for a second - he's got no mouth, he barely acts like an actual person, and his eyes look like Iblis' up close.

Don't you think Silver shouldn't be immediately attacking Mephiles, instead of listening to the whole triade that Mephiles had got going on, before Mephiles manages to hit into his insecurities, his sense of hoplessness for the situation at hand, etc? Mephiles just looks like a Shadow with the traits of Iblis at this point, he also appeared out of nowhere to start babbling about chickens and eggs to Silver. Surely, the environment that Silver essentially grew up in would make him more wary of people having bad intentions, right?

Eggman's infinite power source used ALL reserves of the Phantom Ruby, and Infinite was in a critical state

Sonic destroying the tower means Infinite had no other outlet. He perished and became an illusion

Further supported by the fact his personal prescence disappeared, just mere illusion copies left behind among the illusion Metal Sonics, Zavoks, etc. Which ALL disappeared after Sonic and Co beat Eggman

That said, Frontiers may potentially reveal the origin of the Phantom Ruby with Sage, so we'll see

Or Sega generically used cubes and black/red for theme and there's no relation. Who knows

You got to remember that the whole 'Infinite died' thing came from Flynn, though. You know, the guy who's been showcased not to know anything about the Sonic games?