I just got out of class for the day, and I really wish I could help jog your brain more, specially since you said you were gonna @ me, but alas I'm my own worst enemy and I have stuff to do I've procrastinated way too much on. So, in the meantime have a few religion questions.
How do RC cats view prayer? Do they think the StarClan cats expect something in return for their answering them or do they think their assistance is freely given? Do they address it to whoever? To StarClan as a whole? If addressed to individuals, do they think factors such as the nature of the request or whether or not it's a direct ancestor affect how effective the assistance is going to be? How are their views on all this similar and different from other clans?
me: i want to talk about riverclan rn
me: *doesn't answer this for over an hour*
anyway that's Minor okay.
i skimmed thru the whole wikipedia page for prayer just to make sure i'm not like. u'know. Terribly Biased here.
so. riverclan places the Least emphasis on prayer as an act of...what's the word. fuck. asking for things. they certainly do it, but compare to thunderclan, where prayer focuses almost solely on requests. (shadowclan and windclan fall somewhere in between. skyclan (modern) is almost exclusively phrased as, "the [strength/etc] to [request]", but also in-between.)
the general view is that...if you're, okay. stepping back for a second because answering questions in order here is not Entirely Helpful. but. riverclan places a lot of emphasis on ancestor worship. (not that they would Call it that, mind.) and there's...a Lot to that re. communication with the dead and the shrines and holidays.
so. why? well -- because it's good. it's the right thing to do. uh. fuck. is it filial duty? is that the phrase? fuck. whatever. you know it's just. what you're supposed to do.
so: riverclan doesn't Really do direct requests to individuals in the same way, say, thunderclan does. (thunderclan, feat. i had to look up thrushpelt's mom for that one line in icyhwm.) there's the understanding that Directly Asking those who have passed would be...rude? disrespectful? like -- you are only caretaking their memory because you want something.
riverclan, again, can avoid direct communication when it comes to Tasks To Complete.
but. you know. if a cat were to go to their mate's shrine and mention their kits were close to being warriors and they sure hope their assessments go well, the implied meaning is, please help them do well.
i'll cut past that, i just wanted to establish what it looks like.
anyway, so making a request is a bit of an effort. it's kind of like...the emotional experience of wanting to ask your mom something so you do nice things and you swear you don't want anything and then you try to thread the needle so you've asked her long enough after she's forgotten but recently enough she's still in a good mood. y'know? is that a reasonably common childhood experience? i think it is?
right like. of course you're not being Extra Attentive because you're going to mention something that it sure would be nice if they helped out with. etc.
that said, the idea is that you're already dedicated enough that it wouldn't be rude to make a request.
but. well. yeah. that Varies a Whole Lot. and regardless, it would be Terribly Rude to not bring Something or the Other if you had a request.
(cats who feel...like. cats who feel they don't like...like they've hurt someone/done wrong/etc might specifically separate speaking to the dead and the act of bringing a gift, as a sort of -- i don't want you to fulfill any requests. they're trying to fail in an obligation, but then repay their debt.)
in day to day life, the general idea is related to...like. actions and physical space. embody what you want to see in your life. make places beautiful and harmonious for good things. etc.
and then the Other Thing is that there are a few major holidays. i don't want to...okay. i don't want to Swear to this because atm i don't want to check in the long-ass file this is written down in (icbtyssm, ch. 3), but. i BELIEVE it is greenleaf's end that is accompanied by placing things in the river as a form of request. there's...a lot of variety to what this means, but it's an appeal to the moon.
there's no form of repayment. the moon is the mother of all cats, but she also trascends them. she does not guarantee any request, but...you make it anyway.
(riverclan has other stuff going on with the moon. some of their beliefs are actually very similar to common loner beliefs. for example, on the night of the sleeping moon/new moon, all riverclan cats who are able (i.e., of reasonable age and in reasonable health) stay up all night, so that the moon can take her rest.)
vaguely related, but riverclan views shrines as...touchpoints to starclan, specific to a cat. that's why their maintenance is so important: once one falls into disrepair, there's no guarantee that connection can be reestablished. (yes, tnp is terribly distressing because of that. cats do what they can, but -- who knows if the spirits can reconnect to them?)
that's also why the timeline of their construction is so important: they believe it takes somewhere between a full day and a full three days for a cat to complete the journey down the river. no one knows for sure, and no cat in starclan has ever said. but if you fail to build a shrine in that time, there's no guarantee their spirit will be able to find it.
it's also why their locations are generally secret. while the intentional destruction of a shrine is a severe crime, it's a hard crime to prove, and do you really want to take that chance?
anyway, as for efficacy: when it comes to ancestors, it's...much like thunderclan (who is going to appeal to a specific individual based on some aspect of their life), they're not going to ask like. a seer to make sure their apprentice does well in their training.
but the understanding is -- if you have held your part, they will do what it is in their power to assist you.
and for the moon, it's...you hope. requests are often more symbolic in that sense: two cats too young to formally court (i.e., apprentices) might send matching flowers to her. cats may send trinkets from an ex to symbolize moving on, as a different cat offers one from their mate/...suitor? as a symbol of dedication. it's a request from you to the moon that is not necessarily of public meaning.
in some sense, it's similar to a new year's resolution. the moon rarely interferes in the lives of cats. but. you know. maybe she will give you strength -- or send someone to you.
thunderclan is deeply about direct requests to specific ancestors, but they agree that prayer is personal.
windclan and shadowclan both focus on prayer as a group affair, which puts them at big odds with riverclan.
shadowclan also has their own moon thing going on, but the moon is less a figure of love and more...of all-seeing-ness. riverclan celebrates on no moon nights because fuck, if you're going to be up, why not have a good time? shadowclan celebrates because there's no moon keeping an eye on you, so fuck, why not have a good time?
(well okay, think like. a kit getting to stay up as late as they can stand. no one is doing any purge shit. it's just...a night when everyone lets their hair down, so to speak.)
yeah. i'm sure there are other details i'm missing, but that's the Big stuff for other clans.
OH MY GOD I ALMOST FORGOT
okay this is (naturally) specific to ioht but for Prayer Purposes keepers have a whole set of traditions. i'm still like...fleshing them out, but.
you're really, really not supposed to ask keepers for something unless you have a very desparate need. (a) it can be hard for keepers to leave camp and you don't want to give them a reason to stick around by making them feel needed. (something which is also close to thunderclan beliefs, and why keepers have special funeral rites.) and (b) they've given a Lot of themselves to the clan as is. (this also applies to leaders, deputies, and seers. it's just that like. there are reasons you might ask a seer for something no other cat could provide, and deputies are usually not as high up on this priority list. leaders are usually left alone, but they don't have point (a) as additional motivation to avoid making requests of them.)
keepers aren't viewed as having any Explicit additional power, but you know. they tend to be well-loved. so. they might be able to rally forces, so to speak. or say you don't know Who to ask. then -- you can ask a keeper.
and because of family and riverclan and so on, there's a whole shrine (well, like, it's complicated it's one place with many shrines but they all blend together and...) and protocol to it. (the family of a keeper usually makes them a private shrine as well. no one is sure if they're visited, and it's not a practice that is Discussed, but they want a private place to grieve. of course, it's known about, and some question if it should be permissible. what if it's keeping them tethered in two places? what if it makes it harder for them to move on? it's a hot riverclan theology debate, phrased purely through hypotheticals.)
anyway i'm still sorting out some ideas and what not. the current keeper is general the only cat with open access (for maintenance, where "the keeper of the shrines" comes from), but they're not in charge of moderating visitation. that's the seer's responsibility. it's only accessible during certain periods.
since there's no Assumption that you're making a request, you'd only get side-eye for spending undue time or making excessive visits. sometimes you just want to pay respects.
but there's a whole protocol and stuff to it. i'm not decided when Exactly it's open, other than i'm tinkering with storms? for reasons re. storm related celebrations in riverclan. it'd be a time when, if what i'm currently marinating pans out, the keeper Couldn't maintain the shrine, meaning it could be visited freely without interfering with what they're doing.
uh. yeah. i mentioned "keepers have special funeral rites" and literally never elaborated on the matter. so. that's half of it.
