Ok, I’m glad you could clear that up, just to specify I was talking about these very specific parts with what I was talking about:
. “Seeing this fandom dehumanize the character on such a large scale makes me sick and extremely worried for them, so shut up.”
You did in fact claim you were extremely worried for them. This could easily be taken as implying that you think it says something about their morals/actions/future actions based on how they talk about a very much fictional character in a post. Not cool. That was my only point there. If that’s not what you meant then good, no trouble here, but I’m just telling you because it can be interpreted that way, especially since it’s pretty common for people to say things like that in this fandom, sadly.
I’m glad you clarified the colonization thing, what you said makes sense. I figured you could of meant something like that, so that’s why I gave you the benefit of the doubt. People can totally relate because of their circumstances for any reason, it’s saying it’s canonically accurate when it is very much not which is kind of insensitive.
Your point about Sam was,,, weird? Your saying I can’t sympathize with someone who abused someone,,,, when dream is also some who abused some one. No where in that did I say it’s ok to abuse dream because of that, I’m just stating facts that yes, dreams actions hurt sam. Sam was very fond of tommy and no doubt hm having to deal with the guy who abused him, talked about abusing him, and then killed him would be traumatic for him. You can hurt someone while still being hurt by them. It’s not always a one way street. Again, that doesn’t at all excuse anything sams done, he’s done a lot of awful things, but it is a fact of his character hard boiled into his arc. It’s not exactly hidden away. Just like people are allowed to analyze why dream does the things he does, people are allowed to analyze why sams doing what he does. Doesn’t excuse it, but explains it. Here are some quotes from in game chat on foolishes stream that talk about this. Dream is not just “telling him what he did” he’s taunting him. This has been confirmed many times.
“He kills the other inmates. And laughs. And tells me to come in the cell so he can kill me too.”
“He tells me that he knows everything. That he is waiting.for the right day.”
He talks about at other times even earlier in the arc why he is so obsessedwith the prison. He feels like it is his duty to protect the people who he failed to protect before.
And I found the dream quote! He very much says forever. No questioning that.
“Tubbo, I’m gonna lock Tommy away forever, I mean I need him alive, but that doesn’t mean he has to be free, right?” There’s no reading between the lines that can be done there. He planned for tommy to have his current fate.
I never said you were hyper sensitive? I just said I personally deal with feeling like that (I often project into characters, and seeing people apologize for abuse makes me upset) so it was genuine advice to anyone who feels the same. If something is causing you genuine distress it’s good to take a break. No ones forcing you to, but it can help some people. No where did I imply that anyone was hypersensitive for having to do that? People who say stuff like that about characters should definitely stop, but sadly not everyone will, so it can be good to try and filter things/take a break so you don’t have to see it. Because it can take a toll on your mental health. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with taking a break, it doesn’t make you hypersensitive. And even if you are, there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s valid.
The only reason I asked for you to wait if Anything I said upset you is because I really don’t want to get yelled at, and like I said, I don’t know you. I’ve seen people get really angry at critical asks before and it can help to take a step back before you respond. It was more pertaining to my sensitivity then any one else’s because being yelled at makes me upset so I really don’t want to be yelled at lol. It’s happened before in asks so I was just asking that if you feel like yelling at me please kindly don’t, or at least wait till your not angry, cause it will make me upset. Just a precaution. Sorry if it came off as condescending, I didn’t mean it that way (your response was fine btw)
ah, i think i see the problem - i need to stop with the confusing sentences, this is the second time in that single post someone’s misunderstood what i wrote. i hope you excuse me, english isn’t my first language.
There are literal abuse victims in this fandom, and I personally know a lot of them relate to what c!Dream is going through (more on that later). Seeing this fandom dehumanize the character on such a large scale makes me sick and extremely worried for them, so shut up.
this is the full quote. translation; i am extremely worried for the abuse victims that relate to c!dream’s character for *reasons*, so shut up about this not being a problem.
i never said i was worried for the people who dehumanize him, and definitely not because i was accusing them for this sort of thing bleeding into their real life ideals or opinions.
since our first debate, i have seen poc and non-poc from colonized countries detailing why it is colonization even if the of inhabitants were white, so i do not find it insensitive for people to say it - i don’t necessarily agree nor disagree too much either, but it wasn’t a point i was making in the post, and wasn’t what the problem was about.
please tell me when i said you couldn’t sympathize with c!sam, because to me it seems like you’re making up a point. i’m saying sympathizing with him in the situation where he’s currently abusing someone because you hate the victim (you being some people, not actually you) rubs me the wrong way and feels like people are trying to shift the focus. i am rather sympathetic to c!sam, or as much as i allow myself to be with his actions (similarly to c!dream). i’d like to think i do not have a double standard for any of the characters and c!sam apologists who do not excuse his treatment of c!dream or victim blame him are a 100% valid to feel the way they do in my eyes.
there is a difference between trying to protect people and that desire for protection blooming into hatred, as you put it “obsession” (being willing to break the rules to keep him in), and trying to “break him” so he “wouldn’t try anything”. c!sam’s treatment of c!dream is severe and i do not find it understandable, justified or excused just because the prisoner being kept in inhumane conditions is “taunting him”. i am not saying his goals weren’t initially good or didn’t stem from a good place, but at this point he has become corrupted and his actions aren’t what i’d classify as valid responses to c!dream’s “taunts”.
thanks for the quote. i disagree that he planned to put him in the same position as he himself, because my logical conclusion is that he wouldn’t he in the main cell, and would be able to move around the prison, as well as not be abused by c!sam (who would still be the warden). anything c!dream would’ve done is speculation and there is no proof to the fact that it would happen. the prison wasn’t “remade for c!tommy”, it was more like an “eh, it’ll do” sort of thing. the prison’s conditions were pretty much remade to store someone they hated and considered either a threat or a tool, hence lesser than human. no one else in the prison would face the same treatment c!dream, because they’re not c!dream.
i never said you were calling me hypersensitive, what i meant was, i was hoping you didn’t think my concerns were a thing of sensitivity rather than the need of the community to change something. i would rather continue making posts and analysis in an effort to actively shift the fandom’s perspective than take a break, but i get how that might be beneficial for me to do in the long term, and did not think you would write that with malicious intent or as an insult to me or my personality.
