#fydbac

I think that it’s not that simple, but still a good metaphor.

For instance, using the race angle- I have a niece and nephew who are native, black, and white, the same mixup that I have. And yet, because of their white father, they are seen by most of their community as white, because their skin is very pale and they are blond. It would be wrong to deny them their POC heritage, but it’s also wrong to claim that they face the same day-to-day oppression that their mother- a visibly black person (who is also black/white/native, but darker skinned)- faces.

It’s called conditional privilege, and it’s the same thing that people will argue bisexuals, asexuals, passing transgender people, and LGBT+ members who are not out “benefit” from. However, conditional privilege is not really privilege t all when you remember that one false move and the axe falls on your head too.

happy birthday @fydbac~ hope it’s a good one~

bonus video because i haven’t posted any videos in a while:

Very very interesting! I do remember you mentioning what kinda school you went to, but I swear, everytime I see "mennonite", it's like the first time I'm seeing it. So there is new world and old world of mennonite and amish? so 4different cultures? (i could google, but more fun to ask :) )

There are some Amish and Mennonites in Texas, but there’s also a few even more conservative sects down there that are basically extremist Amish-Morman blends in which they don’t use technology, they practice communism, they’re polygamous, and they believe it’s okay to have grown ass men marry 14yo girls. Might be who you saw, it’s hard to say for sure.

There is a New World (New Order) and Old World (Old Order) for both Mennonite and Amish. It’s sort of hard to describe to someone who didn’t grow up there but basically, they’re all fundamentally the same with a few key differences. Both Amish and Mennonites are from followers of Menno Simons, who took Martin Luther’s ideals from his “here’s 95 Reasons Why the Catholic Church sucks” and radicalized them among early Protestants (ie- non-Catholics).

The followers of Menno Simons, ie the Mennonites, were “Anabaptists”- meaning they believed that baptism and becoming a fully fledged member of the Christian church should be a decision made in adulthood, not shortly after birth like in the Catholic church, based on Jesus’ teachings that becoming a follower of God should be a decision made of one’s own free will, and children are inherently pure, and a parent may pressure a child into religion and thus take away that child’s ability to choose. This was a pretty radical idea way back when, and garnered the label of heresy from the Catholic church, which in turn lead to the Mennonites being hunted and tortured and forced to recant.

This brought to light the second key teaching of Menno Simons: Jesus scorned violence and said that violence and bloodshed was unGodly and equivalent to murder, even going as far as saying that to hate someone in your heart and treat them as though they were dead to you is murder in all but deed and carries the same weight as the sin of actually killing a person. Mennonites were hideously pacifistic- it is an actual teaching of the Mennonite church to this day that even if someone came into your house and started killing everyone in your family, you must not bear violence or hatred against that person, and if that means that everyone dies, then God will welcome you into heaven all the more gladly without the sin of blood on your hands. So oldschool Mennonites became martyrs as the Catholic church tried to eradicate them, and many had to flee to other countries where the way of life was very different from the simple farming life many of them knew.

This brings the third important part of his teachings: in order to live a Godly life, Jesus professed a love of honest work (a “man’s work”, such as work you do with your hands, such as idk carpentry like the guy was before he was known as Messiah) and a simple lifestyle (refusing gifts of riches and saying that rich people are all inherently sinners who have shunned God and are probably going to hell). He also says that you should share everything you have, even with those who would be considered less than you, because all men are equal under God and humility is key. So when they moved to these other countries, they began to form little pocket communities that had their own governments and their own laws rejecting things that would promote laziness and things that would feel like they’re flaunting status quo. This translates in the modern era to a rejection of technology (because it makes work too easy, and because some tech is a marker of status) and other “fancy” things such as non-homemade clothing, lace, tattoos, colored hair, etc. You are expected to conform to those around you and be indistinguishable from your fellow man, because we are all equals.

Mennonites (and Amish) also do not pay taxes or perform any patriotic displays (they believe that the only kingdom Christians belong to is the Kingdom of Heaven, so if they fly a flag it’s the Christian flag and if they sing an anthem it’s the Christian Anthem followed by the Lord’s Prayer), they don’t dance (dancing is apparently an old euphemism for sex and you can’t have premarital sex and so you can’t dance with anyone that’s not your spouse and you can’t have sex in public so no dancing!!!!), they dress very modestly (varying vs Old and New but basically at least your typical wrists, ankles, collarbones must be covered, headcoverings for men and women both are a requirement, and men must grow a beard and women aren’t allowed to cut their hair short), and they all speak or recognize Pennsylvania Dutch as it’s a dialect of German, which is the country they were chased out of by the Catholic church.

Jakob Ammann disagreed on rejoining the world as industry brought about many changes very quickly and split from the larger Mennonite church, bringing about the Amish (his followers) who still dress and use tech only from that time and prior. Basically he pressed pause on time for them and they won’t move forward. Those are Old Order or Old World Amish, and they are the stereotypical Amish you’ll see today.

New World or New Order Amish are basically discount Old Order Mennonites, who will vary on what technology they will use and what clothes/hair they allow depending on how convenient it is for them to live without such things. As the world becomes more and more reliant on technology, New World Amish are becoming more common. These are the people who, while they don’t own a car, they might be okay carpooling with someone who isn’t Amish. Or, they may buy some processed foods at Walmart because it’s too difficult to get ahold of certain basic goods any other way, but they’ll still ride their horse-and-buggy there. Or, they may have a landline phone to take certain emergency calls, but it’s located in the barn or workshop or shed and not in the house.

Old Order Mennonites will still do the whole shun and excommunicate thing, but they have more or less joined the world at large unless it’s still convenient for them to not partake in certain things. So they may or may not have horse-and-buggy, but they probably don’t have a cell phone and whether they have an electric washer/dryer really depends on the individual family.

New Order Mennonites have a wide range and are the most common that you’ll see, but they are almost indistinguishable from other conservative Protestants out there unless you talk to them about philosophy or unless you catch the German influence in the accent. Other Christians, for instance, can usually pick up on someone being Mennonite, but non-Christians would have a pretty hard time pointing it out unless they grew up around the culture. They are, for the most part, still farmers and wood workers and masons etc and most do still rely on farming and hunting as a staple, but you’ll get that from any rural sect of Christianity.

Thanks so much for sharing! The Menno's are cool for the adult choice thing. The most I knew was from some documentary about that teenage rite thing, where they are free to have fun in real world, and must choose to stay amish, or go into the majority world. Which I thought was pretty cool. (I don't recall it mentioning the specifics like Menno and amish, etc.).

That is mainly an Amish thing- Mennonites don’t really like it if you split from the Mennonite church but they don’t usually jump to excommunication unless you do something like join the Catholic church (spoilers: they hate Catholics). The rite of passage is called Rumspringa and it’s usually about a year (though can be as long as 3 or even 5 years depending on the specific community) where you are allowed to do whatever you want and explore the world at large as a teenager provided your decisions are not permanent such as a tattoo, and at the end you decide if you want to officially join the Amish church as an adult or if you want to go out into the world as a regular Protestant. There is where you’ll see Amish kids with cell phones or cars or in more modern clothing. They’re seeing if they like “the world”.

You are allowed to choose the outside world with only one consequence: you are excommunicated from the Church, but may come back to visit your family (so you are not shunned which is when they act like you don’t exist anymore). You may rejoin the Amish church later if you decide you’ve made a mistake. You may not quit the Amish church without being excommunicated and shunned. Most kids do not choose to split from the Amish church, and stay. There have been only a few people born outside of the Amish church who have successfully stayed for life. In general, POC are neither Amish nor Mennonite, even if their communities are very close to the two religions/cultures. I believe no POC in the US have successfully remained Amish, and very few have stayed for long in the Mennonite church. The Amish are not particularly interested in converting “outsiders” as well. They kind of just want to be left alone. Mennonites in general want you to be Christian, and they’d appreciate it if you’d be interested in their version of Christian, but as long as you like Jesus and you’re not Catholic you’re alright by their book.