#fish meta

I am just going in order. All excerpts are from the Seven Seas official translation, Volume 4, Chapter 24: Yue Qingyuan and Shen Qingqiu.

Shen Jiu fights for resources

“Shen Jiu, don’t think you can just throw your weight around. You don’t own this street. What gives you the right to tell us we can’t stay?!” This main street was wide and even, and many people came and went upon it. If one wanted to beg, it was the best and prime location. Some of the passersby watched this group of children fight, but even more hurried on their way. And this new brat had the gall to challenge him. Shen Jiu looked down and around, preparing to find a brick with which to teach him a lesson, when a tall youth happened to walk over. He saw Shen Jiu rolling up his sleeves, head lowered, and hastily went to stop him. “Xiao-Jiu, let’s go somewhere else.” [...] With Yue Qi standing in front of him, Shiwu grew bold. He leaned forward and yelled, “Every time we go to a new place,you always hog the best spot!

From this we know that Shen Jiu, without fail, tries to claim or fight for the best begging spots in every city. This isn't fully textually supported, but add to that the later section that mentions how Shen Jiu was far better at begging than Yue Qi and I think that, on some level, SJ feels responsible for both his and Yue Qi's wellbeing. Chasing off the other children is not just a selfish act, but also a protective one.

According to the orders given to them, Yue Qi should have wailed and wept, but no matter what, he never could manage to cry. Therefore, this task had instead fallen to Shen Jiu, even though he was faking an illness that supposedly left him too feeble to weep. But he was small and his face wasn’t too unsightly to look at, so whenever he sobbed and bawled, the passersby found him pitiful and generously opened their wallets. It would have been no exaggeration to call him a money tree.

Xiao Jiu fancies himself the breadwinner lol.

How Yue Qi reacts to accusations against Shen Jiu

That first youth took the opportunity to tattle. “Qi-ge, he’s bullying me.” “That wasn’t bullying, Shiwu,” said Yue Qi. “Xiao-Jiu was just joking around.” “Who’s joking?” said Shen Jiu. “I’m telling him to get lost. This is my territory. I’ll kill anyone who tries to steal it.”

I've anyways found this passage so telling of their eventual adult relationship! First of all, Yue Qi implicitly takes Shen Jiu's side, and immediately defends him. This seems to be taken for granted by all characters, so we can assume this is their standard dyanmic. Yue Qi, notably, does not deny that Shen Jiu was threatening Shiwu. In this situation where SJ is actively gearing up for a fight, it would be a very poor defense, and that's probably true of most messes Xiao Jiu got himself into! 

Most of Yue Qi's actions in the scene are attempts to de-escalate. This is just my theory, but I think in Yue Qi's mind, who's at fault is much less important than making sure no one gets in trouble with a higher authority. Even if he knows SJ could win the fight, it would only gain SJ more animosity, and possibly the attention of someone who would be a real danger.

I think it's evident how Yue Qi's ethos of keeping their heads down and not causing trouble or drawing too much attention would feed into how he handled Shen Qingqiu's less commendable behavior as an adult and complaints against Shen Qingqiu.

In the brothel scene later in the extras, we can see that he's conscious of their image. 

Yue Qingyuan yanked Shen Qingqiu off the bed. He was in a rare fit of anger. “Why are you like this?” “Why am I like what?” asked Shen Qingqiu. “Two of Cang Qiong Mountain’s head disciples getting into a huge brawl inside a brothel—does that sound good to you?”

Imo, now entrenched in the politics of the cultivation world, YQY sees protecting SQQ's image/reputation as an important part of protecting SQQ. Yue Qi spent his childhood managing Xiao Jiu, and as an adult, he's not able to so easily break the habit, not matter how SQQ scorns him

Shen Jiu does not get upset by attacks on his character, only from Shiwu calling Yue Qi "Qi-ge"

With Yue Qi standing in front of him, Shiwu grew bold. He leaned forward and yelled, “Every time we go to a new place,you always hog the best spot! Everyone’s been sick of you for ages! You think you’re all that? That everyone’s afraid of you?” “Shiwu,” Yue Qi scolded. Amidst the struggle, Shen Jiu kicked Yue Qi in the shin. “If you want a fight, I’ll give you one. Only losers would blame their spot for their incompetence. You bastard—who’s your Qi-ge? I dare you to say that again!”

Now granted these aren't the most cutting insults, but it's SO interesting to me that Shen Jiu doesn't react to the insults directly. To me, this is a little bit of evidence that, even at this age, Shen Jiu had already decided he was a bad guy, and stopped caring about what others thought of him. The glaring exception to that was, ofc, Yue Qi. I think part of the reason that SJ reactions to the "Qi-ge" specifically, is that Shiwu just said that no one likes Shen Jiu, and then tried to align himself with Yue Qi. I think to SJ, he sees a real threat in the idea of someone else stealing Yue Qi, the one person who likes SJ. SJ is so possessive of Yue Qi not just because he's Qi-ge, but also because, without him, Shen Jiu would have nothing and no one.

Yue Qi tries to deescalate by coaxing/appeasing Shen Jiu

“You’re the bastard! I bet you’ll get sold off soon and end up a pimp!” Yue Qi didn’t know whether to laugh or to cry. “Where did you learn that kind of nonsense language?!” Then he dragged Shen Jiu off to the side of the road while coaxing him. “All right, you’re the most competent one here. Even if you didn’t pick and choose your spot, you’d be the best. So let’s change streets.” Shen Jiu stepped on his foot. “Get off me! Like I’m scared! Come on, fight me! Wanna gang up on me? Go ahead!” Of course Yue Qi knew he wasn’t scared. If he really let Shen Jiu brawl with the other kids, he would fight dirty. He’d gouge at their eyes and kick them in the belly or crotch or shin. He was terribly vicious, and the other party would be the one to end up suffering and bawling in terror. Yue Qi forced down a smile. “Are you done stepping on my foot yet? If you are, stop it. Qi-ge will take you somewhere fun.” “What shitty ‘fun’?” Shen Jiu asked savagely. “The most fun I’ll have is if they’re all dead.” Yue Qi looked at him helplessly and shook his head.

Yue Qi only barely scolds Shen Jiu, even when Shen Jiu in the wrong (tried to steal Shiwu's spot and then almost beat up Shiwu). Instead, his reaction is to distract, coax, bribe, and praise him until SJ looses interest in whatever trouble he was going to cause. Yue Qi is so biased, and he spoils him 😂. Even when Yue Qi has so little he can give, he managed to spoil Shen Jiu by giving him so much favor, attention, and affection. 

I think this is something that comes naturally to Yue Qi to the point that he can't help himself from doing the same thing as an adult, even when SJ scorns him. It's just the correct response to seeing a Xiao Jiu! He's the "why do we have hands" meme fr 

Yue Qi smiles imagining Shen Jiu beating up the other kids

Of course Yue Qi knew he wasn’t scared. If he really let Shen Jiu brawl with the other kids, he would fight dirty. He’d gouge at their eyes and kick them in the belly or crotch or shin. He was terribly vicious, and the other party would be the one to end up suffering and bawling in terror. Yue Qi forced down a smile. “Are you done stepping on my foot yet? If you are, stop it. Qi-ge will take you somewhere fun.”

I don't have much to say about this, I just want to remind everyone Yue Qi finds SJ's violent, feral tendencies adorable. This man has no desire to train his cat, and he will insist it's friendly even as it gnaws on his arm.

In Conclusion?

If that is the case, it extends the time period in which the Qing generation were disciples by a lot. In xianxia novels, its common for cultivators to be disciples for decades if not centuries before achieving a notable position of their own, so I think it would make a lot more sense if YQY, SJ, and everyone else had been disciple for at least 10-20 years before ascending to the position of peak lord.

Without a firm date on the sealing of TLJ, I thought that QHT's age could be used to estimate the amount of time between qijiu's backstory and the start of canon since I've seen others do that, but upon looking at the actual quote, I find it too vague to draw any conclusions about QHT's specific age:

⁃Seven Seas official translation, Book 2 chapter 6 I don't think the fact that she's "no longer a girl in her prime" implies that she's visibly middle aged, as some timelines claim. The language is quite ambiguous, but the use of "girl" makes me think that it's saying she's no longer a teenager/in her early 20s. No matter what, I don't think it's sufficient to estimate any kind of timeframe.

Based on the fact that SJ's senior disciple is only 16 at the start of the novel, I think it would make sense for the Qing generation to have fairly recently ascended to their positions (I would guess based off nothing but convention that Ming Fan was accepted as a disciple between that ages of 10 and 12, and therefore SJ's has only had his first personal disciple for a maximum of 6 years. He could definitely have had outer disciples before that point, but it's conspicuous how young his personal disciples all are at the start of the novel). My personal guess is that the Qing generation were disciples for a few decades, and only recently ascended to their positions as peak lords within the past decade or so, but there's really no way to say for sure.

YQY doesn’t spend money on himself 

This was the starting point of my thinking when I started spinning qijiu findom in my brain back in 2022. Yue Qingyuan, in my opinion, doesn’t like taking care of himself. I think he’s better about taking care of his physical needs to some degree because he’s aware that the consequences of him passing out or qi deviating would affect more than just himself, but his motivation is a.) to be a well functioning machine capable of fulfilling his role as sect leader, and b.) to Not Fuck Up. (One of adult YQY’s core traits is that he lives in perpetual fear of fucking up. More on that another day). Aside from the risk of heart demons damaging his cultivation, YQY doesn’t see any possible consequences to neglecting his mental health. 

And so, does YQY really deserve a comfortable bed? Does he really need any nice wall hangings in the parts of his home that guests will never see? The only seemingly indulgent purchases YQY makes are those needed to uphold his image as sect leader, like fine clothes and hair oils. Those are functionally business expenses, because YQY is aware that how he presents himself reflects on the entire sect. (SJ surely doesn’t see it that way— he only sees YQY putting on the affects of nobles and spending money like water, as bad as any of the natal lords in this sect). In the modern era, YQY would come home, take off his perfectly tailored suit, and flop face first onto his bare mattress on the floor.

YQY’s everything belong to SJ

I think that if SJ had asked, YQY would be willing to give him basically anything he owned. Fundamentally, YQY puts SJ’s life before his own. He would not have walked into near-certain death long after SJ became irredeemable to the rest of the cultivation world if that was not the case. Yue Qingyuan literally offers SJ his life. 

YQY would die if he thought it would make SJ happy. If YQY’s life and the sword that is his life can be forfeited to SJ, what’s a bit of money, or the material possessions that YQY cares little for? What’s his is SJ’s, and if it would make SJ happy, YQY would not hesitate to hand over whatever SJ asked for. 

YQY likes taking care of people.

Although the fanon of YQY being overly solicitous and constantly pushing gifts on SJ contradicts canon (as far as I can tell, there's not a single instance in the novel of specfically Yue Qingyuan giving SQQ a gift-- at most, there's references to all the peak lords doing so), I think there’s a little truth to it— if YQY thought SJ would allow him to, he would absolutely give SJ whatever he thought the man might like or need. I would go as far as to say that he probably longs to do so. He is a service dog, after all.

Yue Qingyuan most often expresses his affection as protecting, taking care of, or expressing concern for others. Most of his 'wet puppy in the rain' moments in canon are not due to his own misery, but because he is concerned for SJ or SQQ. Yue Qingyuan is bad at existing for his own sake; he is constantly shown to be putting others and the sect above himself, and none more so than SJ. Personally. I don’t think this is just due to YQY’s strength of character. I think he gains a sense of purpose and identity from being the one to protect and take care of others. There is a reason I say YQY had eldest daughter syndrome: he needs someone to take care of For His Health.

Being allowed to give or buy things for SJ, or have SJ use YQY's assets to buy things himself, would fulfill YQY's needs. It would give him vital enrichment. After their long estrangement where SJ constantly ignores YQY, someone as simple as being able to express affection by providing for SJ would literally be a privilege to YQY. 

That's all well and good, but doesn't that just mean YQY's wants to be SJ's sugar daddy? Why do I specify findom instead? Well that's where we get to SJ.

SJ's issue with gifts & "unmotivated" kindness

SJ is a paranoid person, and many gifts come with some expectation of reciprocity. I think SJ’s ability to appreciate gifts would be hampered by his immediate unasked question: “what do you want from me?”. While gifts for Peak Lord Shen may pose less of an issue, as he’s able to quickly identify the motives from deference to bribery, gifts to Shen Jiu The Person may pose more of an issue, as the lack of a clear motive besides expressing affection leaves room for SJ’s mind to invent one. Honestly, SJ reacts similarly to most kindness— he himself is so rarely kind without a motive, so it’s hard for him to imagine that others might not be the same. (Any kindness Xiao Jiu showed his Qi-ge doesn’t count— SJ was only protecting what belonged to him 😤).

Because of this twisty brain maze he’s made for himself, SJ is far more comfortable taking something than receiving it. SJ learned as a child that he will be given nothing, and that taking things is necessary for survival, and he had no compunctions about it. Taking is an act of initiative and aggression: taking is winning. I actually think this is how he framed begging in his mind— by thinking of it as tricking people, he gets to feel like he’s won or stolen something, rather having to linger in the pity. 

Gifts, affection, and love can all be given this treatment. If SJ tricked YQY into loving him and must now cling to his rightfully earned possession, SJ needn’t address his own feelings. If YQY’s money is something SJ takes, he gets to feel like he’s taking advantage of YQY instead of having to feel like he’s reliant on YQY or like he's YQY's charity case.

SJ is a massive control freak, and he is always most comfortable in a relationship when he can tell himself he’s in control of the  dynamic, even if that makes the relationship appear unhealthy to an outside observer. Once YQY catches on to this, he would do absolutely everything he could to accommodate SJ (without SJ realizing he’s being accommodated ofc).

In short, YQY leaves his wallet on the nightstand, SJ takes or “steals” it and buys some overpriced designer good he doesn’t need, silently daring YQY to challenge him on it, and they both feel fulfilled by this. 

This is what peak performance looks like.