#ff7 ltd

Biggs and Zack are seemingly alive at the end of FFVII Remake Part 1 - so what does that mean? Will they live throughout the story? Maybe they’ll be like Wedge and escape death initially, only to be forced to face it shortly after?

There’s also interesting similarities on the death scenes of Biggs and Zack, A while ago I took screenshots of the “death” scene of Biggs and thought it was interesting how they had Biggs touch Cloud’s head and also made him promise something. 

And how are all these things connected to the LTD? 

Now, clearly, neither Biggs or Jessie had as dramatic of a death as Zack or Aerith. We actually see the initial injury or incident that causes each of them to die. Cloud comes upon Biggs while he’s already sitting down injured. Cloud and Tifa come to Jessie after she’s under the rubble and try to save her. 

We know Cloud pretty much loses it when Zack dies. He collapses mentally. He’s already been through enough shit to fill a lifetime, and now his only friend, his best friend, and the guy who saved his life, dies trying to get them back to Midgar. 

Why Zack is Important to Cloud

Relationship wise, Cloud obviously had a much deeper connection to Zack. At the point that Biggs dies, he doesn’t know any of that, but I think his death definitely triggers something in him. Biggs saw through Cloud’s front. We know Biggs dealt with the kids at the Leaf House, and most likely acted like a volunteer in the Big Brother program. He tells Cloud he’s got a lot in common with the kids at the Leaf House.

Zack had Cloud take on the responsibility to be his living legacy. Of course we all know he shuts down about five minutes later. Biggs had Cloud promise that this wouldn’t all be for nothing. In both cases, it doesn’t work out. He forgets what Zack told him and the Sector 7 plate still falls. 

Zack’s death has a major impact on Cloud - it’s ultimately what breaks him. It also gives us these really sad moments of somebody who’s already been through so much and is breaking now. 

Cloud is upset about Biggs. He was becoming his friend. The three Avalanche members really did accept Cloud and tried to be his friend. He was included with them - in most cases. Of course there’s the Avalanche party that he’s kicked out of (mind you - he does this to himself by acting like an ass to Barret and them) and then during Chapter 4, he’s separated to go steal Jessie’s dad’s ID. 

Ultimately, though, we know that Biggs, Wedge, and Jessie all like Cloud. They seem to see through the hard exterior pretty easily. So Cloud loses another person in his life.

The ending of FFVII Remake takes an interesting turn. Anybody who played OG or CC knows what is supposed to happen to Biggs and Zack.

But, Remake’s ending seems to imply that they survive the event that was supposed to take them out. 

Did Zack survive the last stand? Is this a case of the Last Stand in CC being combined with OG where as they walk away, Zack ends up getting shot anyway? 

So we also see Biggs.... wait, wrong picture.

That’s the right one. We get a shot of Charlie Sheen Biggs waking up in a bed in what looks like some type of either infirmary or large room. In OG, we know that all three of the Avalanche members die during the Sector 7 plate fall. In Remake, the only one we get confirmation on is Jessie, and that’s only in the Chapter description. 

Wedge we know survives until the Shinra building, where the Whispers ultimately take him out since he defied fate. 

So, what will happen to Biggs?

The biggest thing talked about seems to be the ending. Zack surviving created a lot of buzz. Is there a second timeline? Is he going to just simply walk another 10 feet and get shot in the back? Did her survive in the first place? Why does Stamp look different on that bootleg chip bag?

Will we have a beautiful Zerith reunion? 

In the OG, the Love Triangle illusion was the red herring. This was mostly to trick and distract the player to focus on something, so later they can destroy you with major twists. It also was used to get the player to like Aerith so her death would be more impactful. In addition, it makes the whole Northern Crater confession from Cloud about Tifa’s opinion being the only one that matters a slam in your face of holy shit what is going on?!

At this point, everybody and their mother knows Aerith dies. It’s not something that was kept a secret. It’s referenced in various materials. The one thing not openly referenced is what’s going on with Cloud. They never reference the Lifestream, the fake persona, or anything outside of the OG and Ultimanias. I think this is a shame since it’s such an important part of his character arc, but I get that they want to try and leave the element of surprise in play.

I think everybody would agree that the moment you find out Cloud was just a grunt that was WITH Zack during the Nibelheim incident is super powerful. I still get chills all these years later. Letting this be a well known thing would take away the element of surprise from new fans. Of course, people can go online and read blogs like this one and know all of this, but for somebody - especially future generations - who may just be looking for a new game to play, you’d want this element of surprise to stay in tact. 

We can’t use Aerith as the only red herring anymore, and we can’t use the love triangle. For many reasons. Everybody knows about it and the love triangle was a poor choice for something like this because some people missed the point completely.

Now, FFVII Twitter is always on fire. 

Also, even though the Lifestream and Cloud’s true identity are pretty well kept secrets in terms of printed media, most of the people who played FFVII Remake played the original game, they know what happens. People who were new and played Remake first most likely went and bought OG and played it. So now they know what happens. 

They knew this, or they probably wouldn’t have shown Cloud in this state, but even for those who don’t, the alternate timeline theory is born. Biggs enhances this theory because he’s alive too. How can Cloud walk past them AND be carried by Zack in some catatonic state?

It keeps us distracted. They want us to think that fate can be changed. In the case of Zack, they’re even saying that the past can be changed. 

Ultimately, whatever they do, it’ll be shocking to most players. I do trust that the devs aren’t being deceitful when they say they are going to keep the major plot points the same and FFVII will be FFVII going forward. Part 1 keeps major plot points but adds substance to a lot of things. They took out unnecessary parts and enhanced others. They also removed a lot of the love triangle stuff. 

Another striking thing with all of this is the Jessie factor. The Chapter screen tells us she died - it only says Biggs was seriously injured. That hasn’t stopped speculation.

The ending shows gloves on the table next to Biggs’ bed and a lot people said oh it’s Jessie’s left glove! And it does appear that it is. There’s only one glove. To me, this seems like they recovered her body and were able to pull of some personal affects of hers to leave with Biggs. Both articles look damaged or faded. 

Faded could mean they’ve been sitting in the sun for a while. The incident happened a few days ago, though we don’t have a definitive time on when we’re shown Biggs. This could be a future look.

They also could simply be damaged and full of dust from the plate collapse. 

It is implied in Chapter 4 if you listen to the conversation between Jessie’s mom and the gang that Biggs and Jessie have a different relationship than Wedge and Jessie. 

I have some thoughts on what this may mean:

Biggs is Jessie’s BFF and her mom likes him.

Jessie and Biggs dated at one point and decided to not tell her mom that they no longer are or that its casual.

Jessie’s mom was hounding Jessie about finding a man so she picked Biggs to be her pretend boyfriend and he agreed.

Biggs and Jessie are secretly dating and only her mom knows.

Which one do I think it is? Well, knowing Jessie, I can definitely see her doing #3. I can absolutely see her acting like Biggs is her boyfriend to get her mom off her back. I think #1 and #2 are also huge possibilities. #4 is far fetched, but they could cover it up by having Jessie flirt relentlessly with Cloud and appear to be single. 

Some people think that Jessie will end up at the Gold Saucer singing. Personally, I really hope not. If they keep a bunch of people alive (even if it’s for a short amount of time), it really takes away one of the major themes of FFVII which is death and moving on. In addition, I think it’s too many people they’d need to kill off later. Jessie is a very popular character, so I hope they don’t take that as an incentive to change that aspect of the story. 

Aerith’s funeral and Jessie’s death are similar as well, so I think it is foreshadowing some things. 

We get a princess style carry here. Aerith and Jessie both get these in Remake. Jessie’s second one ends in her death. Will Aerith get a second princess carry by Cloud? Will it be to take her to her final resting place?

Maybe she won’t even go to the lake - maybe to the sky?

We know Tifa was super upset in OG, and they really don’t touch on it much. We only see her run away crying after this moment. You learn in Case of Tifa that she’s really upset about, but a lot of people don’t read Case of Tifa, so they only know this scene. 

We know that she gets very upset over Jessie’s death.

I think Aerith’s death will be much worse. 

It seems Jessie’s death is a reference to how Aerith’s death was handled in the OG.

Will it be handled the same? Maybe. I think they’re going to make it seem like she’s going to be okay, and then boom.

So the ending gives us hope that we have two friends that are alive. It makes us think that we can save Aerith. I do think Wedge’s death towards the end and comments that Red XIII made in Chapter 17 may also be hinting towards the fact that you cannot change the past and you cannot change fate. 

Over on Discord, @anesuna​ brought up a good point about Wedge’s cats. Biggums survives the plate collapse along with Wedge. The other two cats - Reggie and Smalls - sadly perish (::cries a lot::). This could also be a reference that Biggs survived while Jessie and Wedge do not. 

So what about the LTD?

I think this is a heavy reference to the old OG love triangle. Don’t fall for it! They’re warning players now instead of wanting them to fall for it. 

Why do I say this? Aerith seemed to think the love triangle was fun. Thing is, Cloud wasn’t all there at this point, so it was just an illusion. Since players didn’t seem to get that the first time, they’re going to make it clear now. There were a lot of aspects they seemed to take from Aerith and give to Jessie. Overly flirty (with Jessie they added thirsty) and being overly childish at times. Aerith in remake is still somewhat childish, but not completely.

Oblivious Cloud is Oblivious. Yeah, he was oblivious in OG that Aerith and Tifa had feelings for him. He has no idea what Wedge is talking about now. Earlier in this same conversation he thinks that Wedge is telling him not to come around because people will gossip about Jessie being in Avalanche, but the player knows really what he’s referring to...

I think this is probably a reference to the Gold Saucer date because of the stage part. I take things at face value and don’t really dig too deep, but I think this exchange with Wedge is supposed to tell the player not to fall for these false loves early in the game.

It’s brought up again during Aerith’s resolution scene.

Earlier Wedge said not to fall for Jessie’s trick, because it was a game to her. It wasn’t real love. Aerith is now telling her that if Cloud thinks he falls in love with her, it’s not real. 

We have two separate instances in the game where they’re telling you to beware of the false love. It’s two times the word love is used. 

After all of this, the ending presents us with two guys who should be dead that appear to be alive. One of them is directly connected to Aerith.

This was their way of trying to shut down the LTD and replace it with different red herrings. Will it work as well as the LTD? Well, it seems that the majority of FFVII Remake fans have talked about the ending.

Yes, a lot of people talk about the LTD, but I think the majority of players are more interested overall in what happens next and what’s up with Zack. I think the majority of the fandom is also ready for the LTD to officially be dead so we can actually focus on everything else and stop the madness. 

It’ll never fully stop, but at least it’ll be clear for anybody who plays the game and alleviate the bulk of the chaos. 

Say hello to your new red herrings: Biggs and Zack. 

Honestly, I was re-watching FF7R footage to get some illustrations for another analysis and came across this, so this is a totally accidental catch about the LTD of FF7. I didn’t ask myself questions this time.

ATTENTION:

If you do not care or cannot handle LTD, then please skip this post.

I acknowledge the scenarios are more than just LTD. They are also about character building and the friendship between Aerith & Tifa. I respect all characters and the devs. However, please understand this post is an analysis about the LTD element of the scenarios.

If you are cool with all that, please read on. Thank you!

In Chapter 10 of Final Fantasy 7 Remake, we have Cloud, Tifa, and Aerith as our team members and it is probably an amazing chance for the story to tell and develop the relationships between them. In the sewer, the game set up two bridge collapses and there are intentions behind those cutscenes just like probably any other cutscenes the devs put in this Remake and I am, as a fan, very grateful for their attention to detail. I also like to compare because sometimes you need to place one thing next to another to understand what it truly is. By comparing the scenarios of the two bridge collapses, I think I have found the truth about the LTD from Cloud, at least up until this point of the story (after all that happened between Cloud – Tifa and Cloud – Aerith from the beginning till Chapter 9).

With the first bridge collapse, you see Cloud crossing first and then Tifa. Both crossed the bridge successfully. Then, it was Aerith’s turn. Aerith had trouble. When she was in trouble, we saw the screen showed Tifa and Cloud. Cloud was at the back and Tifa at the front. Cloud was out of focus and Tifa was in focus. At its peak, the bridge started sinking. It was Tifa that immediately took action and reached for Aerith. Cloud, however, stayed out of the screen, implying he either didn’t take action or his action was not important enough to be displayed on the screen. Then, we heard Cloud telling Aerith what to do: “Jump!”. Aerith jumped and Tifa was ready to catch her. Cloud was back on the screen, holding onto Tifa while his eyes focusing on Aerith.

Because Cloud barely talked or expressed his feelings openly, we - fans -  have been watching his action carefully to find out what he really meant/felt/thought. So at this moment, who did he care about? My answer was Aerith definitely because she was the one he looked at and she was the one in trouble, even though he had that tendency to touch Tifa. But, let’s check the second bridge collapse.

The second collapse came shortly after the first one. It happened when both Aerith and Tifa crossing. However, if you looked closely, the one truly in trouble this time was Tifa. The screen shows only Tifa being in trouble, not Aerith. You also heard Tifa saying “Huh? No way!” which tells you how she was in trouble. Actually, Aerith was closer to the other side so she was in a safer position. Tifa was near the middle of the bridge and she probably thought she could not make it to the other side, so she turned around to run back. This time, Cloud was in focus. Even a close-up shot was used to tell the audience how he felt.

His face had a stunned and scared expression and it quickly turned into a determined one. Cloud didn’t just stand and told Tifa what to do. He instantly ran toward her. Aerith noticed Tifa was in danger and Tifa was wrong by turning back. So, Aerith took Tifa's hand and pulled her forward together. When Aerith took Tifa's hand, you would see Cloud was already in action in the back. As the two girls moving to the other side, Cloud continued rushing behind. I think the force of such action was too much for him to stop while it also seems he didn’t even want to stop (because he couldn’t feel assured enough if he wasn’t the one that rescues Tifa himself?). The bridge collapsed completely.

You can see him falling almost at the same place that Tifa was at the last shot before the trouble occurred. It’s safe to say that Cloud saw Tifa in trouble, and without thinking, he immediately rushed to rescue her; within such a fleeting moment, he was so determined and projected himself precisely to where she was. That’s how he got himself in trouble. Luckily, the girls rescued him. Then, Cloud turned to Aerith and said “Sorry ‘bout that” and she replied “No need to be”. Why did he apologize to Aerith? Because to him, she was a bystander in that circumstance. How was Aerith a bystander? Because Tifa was in danger and he was so reckless about saving Tifa, thus he bothered Aerith. When Tifa and Aerith went ahead, Cloud was caught looking down sighing. He caught himself. He was such a cocky and try-to-play-cool dude, that sigh was most likely not about his own danger. It’s more like a sigh of relief that the tension of Tifa being in danger was over or he was disappointed about himself for acting recklessly and thoughtlessly because he wanted to protect Tifa.

So we see here, in almost two identical situations, Cloud responded differently when each girl was endangered. It really shows how deeply Cloud cares about Tifa and how much she means to him compared to Aerith. Through his action, Cloud has involuntarily revealed who matters the most to him. However, I don’t think that the devs would go this far just to compare how Cloud cares for Tifa more than Aerith (at least true till this point of the story) just for the sake of the LTD. Remember in FF7AC, Cloud was the one that felt guilty about Aerith’s death more than any other team member? Remember in OG, he acted weirdly before Sephiroth appeared and killed Aerith?

I think there is a high chance the Remake will show in detail how Cloud’s role/Cloud’s failure played in Aerith’s death, which caused his deep guilt in AC. Had he been determined to protect Aerith as he could for Tifa, would have it been different?

After all, here I include the video with slow-motion so you can see it for yourself.

If you have enjoyed this, please check out my other analyses for FF7R:

TIFA AND THE MOON SYMBOL – WALL MARKET [symbolism analysis]

WHAT DID CLOUD CALL BEAUTIFUL? [cinematic analysis]

BONUS only for Cloti: Cloud lost his shit and rushed toward Tifa without thinking the same way.

For like 1 day and a half what could he possibly feel for her that could be this deep WTF !! And oh God the moment she said if you look at C and A backstory you would understand her resolution umm what backstory C story isn't even linked to A likewise to A Tifa is the key to C real self the fact she didn't explain "it not real" and stuck with the L word just shows how she doesn't understand a thing about FF7 and she thinks everything about C&A in this game (2/3)

How can anyone take her seriously at this stage just because she the voice of A well they have to think again cause she's not Nojima , she erases everyone on the game and focus on C and A like there's no T or B , omg I just can't the moment she started to fake crying I was done with her tbh how can anyone believe that heh look at C and A backstory she said like she can't be serious I wonder why she didn't explain "not real" line, I'm sorry I went on rage mode but the way she explained (3/4)

I got really curious about the anon ask you got and I just had to see it and i regret it now I'm so glad Britt isn't like her "bias&blind" , I loved how BRITT talked about Tifa and Aerith as equals and girls doesn't need to fight each other over a man they have a beautiful deep friendship , I like how she's trying to stop the shipwars with her words while White was firing up the shipwars because of her bias toward A , again sorry for this long ask I just couldn't stand how wrong she was(4/4)

Hey anon!

No worries on the rant, I feel you. I can get fired up about this topic myself. 

Bri White is an entertainer. Since she seems to have a heavy following of CA fans, she’s going to cater to them. I had heard in the past that she was extremely biased during her play throughs, but have only watched a few parts of her videos. She only seems to post the Aerith scenes on YouTube - the rest of the play through is on Twitch. 

Of course she’s biased - she voices the character. My first experience with her was her crying over Cloud and Aerith meeting and I couldn’t deal with that. I’m not good with that type of overly emotional stuff, so it’s a personal preference, I’m not saying anything bad about her in that regard. 

A few times she’s upset fans and actually added quite a bit of fuel to the shitshow that’s the LTD is when she called Tifa “stinky” and when she said Tifa was “second best girl.”

The stinky comment was clearly supposed to be a joke in reference to her shower comment. I think in normal circumstances nobody would have gotten upset. I don’t think initially anybody got upset. It’s because the extremists took it and started using it as if this is some type of weird fact. 

The second best girl shit was a poor judgement call on her part on how to name the video. I know both Bri and Britt weren’t too familiar with the LTD, Britt even saying she wasn’t really aware of it until people definitely harassed her on social media she heard about it on social media 

Bri I think was not malicious in what she did. She was catering to her audience. I do think that VAs and other people who could be seen as an authoritative source on things SHOULD be a lot more conscious of what they’re saying. People may take it seriously and it just creates more issues. Britt’s interview was great how she handled it. 

I would love to know how she’d react to Tifa’s resolution scene on her stream. It’s the most intimate interaction that he has in the game. It’s non-action oriented. 

The thing is, it’s heavily implied during Chapter 11 who the guy prefers. This isn’t a jab at Aerith, though. She’s not interested in him aside from the fact she’s digging for Zack info. I think what people miss is how she’s looking at Tifa in this shot. She’s not challenging her, she’s not angry... Tifa is softening her look - she’s also scared out of her mind here. 

But Cloud doesn’t hide this during Chapter 10 and 11. He’s pretty obvious that he has a preference towards Tifa. So much so, that Tifa has to start stepping in to help out Aerith if she’s in trouble. Aerith returns the favor on multiple occassions - neither of these ladies are damsels in distress. 

Hey anon. He will always choose Tifa. 

I think it’s made pretty clear who he truly loves. You’re forgetting that he was under a false persona when Aerith knew him. There is no canon evidence that he had any romantic feelings towards Aerith. We only have canon evidence that he felt romantic feelings for Tifa. 

Aerith being alive when he falls into the Lifestream would have still resulted in Tifa needing to help him. She’s the only one who knows him well enough to do it and she’s the only one that he’ll open his heart to. Cloud’s desire to join SOLDIER was based on him wanting to impress Tifa and have her notice him. 

Mutlishipping is fine, but you can’t claim both are canon when we have tons of evidence stating that he loved Tifa and none that he loved Aerith. It was not up to player choice, ultimately. That’s part of the entire illusion for the first part of the game. Notice you lose the ability to choose after a while. You can’t choose at all after Real Cloud is back. The HA vs LA Highwind scene is based on your early game choices and based on the affection the girl has towards Cloud, not what Cloud feels towards them.

Cloud tells us a lot in the Lifestream. There is not an alternative Lifestream scene, no matter what your choices are. 

There’s also no alternative Northern Crater scene when Sephiroth shows us Nibelheim. If people have ignored Tifa to this point, they’re gonna be pretty shocked by this revelation coming from Cloud. 

So no, there is no ambiguity. The Compilation of FFVII has shown through dialogue, novels, quotes, and supplemental canon materials that Cloud loves Tifa and always has. His SOLDIER persona creates confusion, but ultimately he loves Tifa. 

I wrote this on June 2, 2020 and put it in my drafts. I don’t think I was brave enough to post this because it states how I really feel about things and at times that can be met with resistance. Almost three months later, after more research, talking to others in the fandom, and putting everything together, I’m going to share it now. I also know how to properly add pictures in a post so I’m gonna do that too.

Obviously, this is my opinion on it. Clearly from a fandom perspective, I love Cloud and Tifa as a couple. However, I’m ultimately a “canon-y” person. I do not ship couples without knowing the whole story. I ship after I know what happens. FFVII’s OG... I wasn’t too invested in, so I didn’t really do anything with fandom. I was online for FFVIII, Xenogears, and Gundam Wing. Anything FFVII related was Vincent related. 

***

Oh shipping, something I learned about recently. As a person who played FFVII at the age of 12 (well, started it) and then actually completed the game at around 13 or 14, the bulk of it went over my head. FFVIII was a clear cut romance, and probably why it was my favorite FF for 20 years. That being said, FFVII does have an ending, and does have a pretty clear relationship build between two of the characters. That’s then followed through in the additional media for the compilation. 

So why is there a fight? I honestly don’t know, and this post isn’t going to answer your questions, probably. I am going to give my opinion on why there is a fight, but I’m not a psychologist. This is how I personally feel about the entire FFVII shipping war and the impact it has on people - especially during the COVID quarantine in many areas. 

I played FF7R and was pleasantly surprised. I actually was scared to play it - scared it would change something I enjoyed as a teen. I was one that hoped for a 1 to 1 remake to keep the story solid. The reality is... the OG story is bare bones, which is why they ended up putting out multiple other pieces in the form of games, books, and movies. This bare bones story seemed to also create a war on who our protagonist loves. You realize how bare bones it is after playing the remake. 

That’s not to say it’s not a good game or good story. The OG is a fantastic game. It’s a fantastic story. It has the same issues every other RPG has where it has major gaps in the plot due to timing, money, whatever. The difference I’d say with FFVII and the others is the story is MUCH MORE COMPLEX and MUCH MORE MATURE. The closest I’d say is Xenogears, which literally was cut short due to time and money. FFVII and Xenogears also share a lot of similar themes, which makes a lot of sense when you know the “scrapped” FFVII ideas were repurposed. 

Most of us were kids or young teens when that game came out. We probably played it and understood about 60% of what was going on. We remember Cloud cross-dressing, we remember Aerith dying, and we remember Sephiroth. (And if you’re me you remember Vincent.)

The first part of the game, you’re given multiple choices on how to respond to things. This ends up being part of a “date mechanic” later on in the game. Feels like you have control, right? You’re the one who is going to determine who Cloud gets to date at the Gold Saucer! Who his life partner is! 

Wrong. 

Yeah, you make choices and it does determine who you go on a date with. However, you find out much later in the game that Cloud isn’t really Cloud. There are multiple hints early in the game that something isn’t right. It builds up until you literally see a ghostly figure of child Cloud standing there as Cloud beats the crap out of Aerith and gives the Black Materia to Sephiroth. Cloud hears voices during multiple scenes in the game, but meh, whatever. Seeing his child form, though, you’re like UM OKAY. 

So, you build up your relationship with Aerith. You say all the right things. You get the date with her, she says she wants to meet you. Then you go to the Temple of the Ancients, a cute little part with Cait Sith giving a fortune that you and her are meant to be... and about 10 minutes later you beat the living shit out of her and hand over the Black Materia to the enemy. 

At this point, you realize something is seriously wrong. Aerith disappears. The next time you see her, she dies. 

Then the focus is only on getting Sephiroth. Not just because of Aerith, but Cloud is being summoned by him - you just don’t know that until you get there. Cloud realizes that he wasn’t pursuing Sephiroth, he was being pulled to him. I mean, Aerith dies and isn’t mentioned for quite some time. There isn’t any point after she floats down that they really mourn. They go snowboarding and go after Sephiroth. 

Then Cloud completely breaks... when TIFA questions what she remembers and can’t give Cloud a clear answer. And this may come as a shock to somebody who was trying to woo Aerith. Why does Tifa matter so much? Cloud didn’t break due to Aerith dying, Cloud broke because Tifa didn’t know how to tell him that he wasn’t in Nibelheim 5 years ago (that she knew of). 

They don’t really build the relationship up between Cloud and Tifa until pretty much after this point. They talk about the Promise, they talk about some other quirks, they infer that Tifa has a crush on Cloud. 

You really aren’t aware that Cloud has a crush on Tifa until The Lifestream, when IT ALL COMES OUT. To be fair, Cloud didn’t show romantic interest to either girl in OG prior to the Northern Crater, honestly. More so until the Lifestream.

The Crisis of Losing Control 

You also lose the ability to make choices at this point in the game. 

During the first part, you are acting almost as Cloud’s false persona. The cool SOLDIER Cloud that makes nice or nasty choices towards other characters. You determine, to an extent, how Cloud is. But it’s an illusion. 

And Aerith tells us this in the Remake - that whatever you’re feeling now isn’t real. This isn’t a love confession, this is a warning. If you played the OG, you know she’s referring to his false persona.

The reason I think this gets so heated is because of the loss of control, the feeling of betrayal that the one you thought was supposed to be the one is gone, and all along Cloud held deep feelings for Tifa. You’re also probably young and inexperienced when this happens. The romantic notion of Romeo and Juliet, if you will. 

I think it also depends on how you deal with Aerith’s death. Personally, it wasn’t a huge deal to me. I was like damn did that just happen? I wouldn’t say I was sad, though, or upset. More shocked? Sadly at this point in my life, I’d already lost family members, and moving on is very important. I also didn’t notice Cloud doing ANYTHING romantic in the OG. It felt one sided all around until much, much later on. So I didn’t see it as Cloud losing the love of his life. I actually had no idea why he was upset except they were friends. 

There’s a clear end to the potential romance between Cloud and Aerith - she dies. Now in the world of FFVII, Aerith is a Cetra and has the ability to communicate with the planet and apparently those that are still living once she dies. However, that doesn’t mean that Cloud is going to pursue a relationship with her... that is... crazy, right? 

Apparently.. Not? 

This is where I start having an issue with shipping. The story clearly shows that Aerith dies. The story clearly shows that Cloud harbors deep feelings for Tifa during the Lifestream scene. Both of these events are set - there are no alternatives, no optional scenes. At no point during the Lifestream is anybody else mentioned as a romantic interest. Tifa dominates this guy’s subconscious. But to some, there does seem to be an alternative.

The most extreme I’ve seen is that Cloud should kill himself to be with Aerith. This is disturbing on so many levels, so I’m not going to talk about it much. This not only misses the point of one of the big themes in FFVII, but also just shows how desperate people are to get what they want.

The other is that Cloud actually only loves Aerith and Tifa was his living rebound. The story doesn’t support this. Watch the Lifestream scene and it’s obvious. Once again, we have no mention of anybody else during this. 

The mental gymnastics it takes to put Cloud and Aerith together as the canon couple blows my mind. 

***

And that’s where I stopped. I had noticed at the time there was major pushback on anybody who denied romance between Cloud and Aerith. I guess I just wasn’t ready to deal with it nor did I have the confidence I suppose. Now I’m confident in that after three months of observing, learning, and contemplating.

So I’ll finish with a few thoughts because apparently in fandom land three months is a long time.

COVID-19 Quarantine

The majority of the world went under quarantine earlier this year due to the COVID-19 pandemic. Personally, the last time I saw my cubicle was March 9. Not that I’m sad, because I do enjoy working remotely. But it’s not just my cubicle, restaurants, zoos, everything was shut down and is slowly opening up but I’m not exactly keen on going somewhere unless I absolutely have to. 

This gave me a ton of time to do other things. FFVII Remake came out, so I played that and, yeah, I got really obsessed and went into this depressed void of what the fuck am I going to do until the next part comes out? Hello, online fandom. Hello, insanity. 

I’ve learned that the FFVII online fandom - specifically the shipping fandom - is crazy in good and bad ways. This, of course, was reignited by the Remake’s release, but most likely really amplified due to people being under quarantine. This is an escape from reality for a while. An escape from the constant depressing news cycle.

Before I discovered fandom I was obsessed with COVID-19 information. I watched all kinds of new broadcasts, Dr. Fauci, random people on YouTube, and it was overwhelming after a while. Remake saved me from that. I played Remake before I went into fandom. I played it as a non-shipper. I was slammed in the face with how amazing they portrayed Cloud and Tifa. 

Self Insertion

The other piece that seems to be apparent in angry shippers is the idea of self insertion. This simply means that you put yourself in the place of the character, so you begin to take things personally. If a person self inserts as Cloud, and their personal preference is Aerith, they become angry when Aerith dies and we find out who Cloud TRULY loves. If somebody self inserts as Aerith, they’re upset that they were never a real love interest. 

Most people go “oh okay, I see.” and move on and/or move to fanon if they truly wanted those two together. 

Then there’s the people who, for 20+ years, spread false information, attack, stalk, and go ballistic anytime there’s any type of evidence that they were wrong. 

The Big Ego

Nobody likes being wrong. FFVII has a major twist in it that causes you to go into a daze, and I do think they do a great job with that. Aerith isn’t it. Her death isn’t the big twist. It’s Cloud that’s the big twist. Going through the Lifestream (and even prior at the Northern Crater) reveals like ohhh shiitttt everything you know about Cloud is a lie.

And he even tells us it’s an illusion. Imagine that?

I am very strongly swayed by evidence from official resources. I suppose I take a scientific approach to this. I cannot find canon evidence that Cloud ever held any romantic feelings towards Aerith. Therefore, to me, Cloud never held any romantic feelings for anyone but Tifa because that’s what the game and resources tell us. 

Luckily, the Remake is making things clear. The devs are being more direct when answering questions. 

There was never supposed to be ambiguity or “player choice”. The fact that you lose player choice at one point and there are fixed events in the game (The Lifestream) that cannot be changed should have been evidence enough. The fact that there are not multiple endings should have been a clue. 

With all of this being said, it shouldn’t matter what I say if you want to ship a fanon ship. I do not see any romance between Cloud and Aerith and I never have. There is no supporting evidence of it. I generally am boring - I don’t try to fanon too much stuff that I have other evidence for. I’ll do it in jest. 

Due to the amount of asks I’m getting regarding certain subjects, there will be certain ones I will no longer answer and will simply delete. I’m listing those topics first with links to where you can find more information. You can further find more information below. Please know that this is due to the fact that people need to look through and see what’s already been answered instead of blindly asking questions.

I’m more than happy to answer anything for clarification purposes or new questions that aren’t shown here, but please go through these before sending in an ask regarding: Tifa Deserving better, Cloud Pining for Aerith/Loving Aerith, Cloud Choosing Aerith over Tifa, anything regarding shipping in Advent Children. Thank you!

Tifa Deserves Better than Cloud/Cloud is a Jerk/Cloud is Selfish

The TL;DR: These are usually related to how Cloud acts in Advent Children. Cloud is suffering from severe depression in AC. They’ve explained multiple times this is over guilt and due to him getting Geostigma. Here’s the answers I’ve provided:

Tifa Deserves Better/Cloud Pines for Aerith

Tifa is too good for Cloud

Cloud is in love with Aerith in AC/Any Advent Children Shipping Related Asks

Tifa is Jealous/Cloud Pines for Aerith

Why is Cloud Unhappy?

One of the Saltiest Posts I’ve Done Regarding This

Would Cloud choose Aerith Over Tifa/Does Cloud Love Aerith more than Tifa?

Tifa is Important to Cloud

More About Why Tifa is Important to Cloud

Lies about Canon Pairings

I need to make one of these because things are getting out of hand and it takes me forever to find things...

Welcome to my blog thing. This is mostly a FFVII blog with a sexy focus on Cloti. I also love me some good Zerith and Aerti. 

I’m on Twitter.

I love all of the characters. Don’t come here with anti-bullshit. However, you can absolutely talk as much shit on Hojo as you want to.

I will answer almost any ask. Keep it respectful. I try to explain as best I can, sometimes I can get excited and my answers may get a bit long. 

I try to find the humor in everything. I’ll start a post trying to be serious and somehow find something funny in it. For example, during the Ghoul battle, Cloud saves Tifa and Aerith and they get hit by some blue jizz fire. I thought it was funny that Cloud’s flat ass is on display. I will point out stupid shit.

I will respect you and your ships if you respect me and my ships. I think different ships can live in harmony. A difference in opinion on something doesn’t mean you can begin to berate and bully someone. No matter what “side” you’re on, there is a person behind the screen. Remember that.

Don’t be a shitty racist, homophobe, or other nasty type of person. Oh, and #BLM.

When Vincent Valentine finally wakes the fuck up, you will see him take over this blog, but don’t worry, it will still be full of Cloti goodness, too. 

Here is my list of things I’ve covered. Take a look and if there’s something I haven’t covered or you want more info on, ask away!

General Posts - Random Stuff

My List of Cloti Fanfiction Favorites Will be updated as much as I can remember to update it. I’m making this post so I can find this list easier... 

Nostalgia 

Tifa Asks Cloud About Aerith It’s not LTD related

Cloud Falls a Lot

Aerith’s Street Cred

That Wholesome Marlene Reunion

Xenogears and FFVII - Cloud and Fei

HAVE FUN - OG Affection Points System with Remake Story Points

Do I believe in Love at First Sight? (No)

Why Not to Compare FFVII and FFVIII

The New Red Herrings: Biggs and Zack and How Avalanche Tells Us the LTD is Dead

Musings to New Fans Regarding Canon Information and The Shipping Insanity with @silver-wield, @holysmotez, and @otp-oasis-heavenxearth

Totally Canon Chats

Third Wheel Monologue - Barret Wallace

Glad I Didn’t Miss This Opportunity

Costa Del Sol

Vincent the Fortune Cookie

Cloti Specific

Cloud and Chocobo Sam

Case of Tifa and The Kids are Alright

Case of Barret - First Page

How Cloud Looks at Tifa Part 1

Suspicious Scenes

...We’re Already Friends

Cloud Adds to His Life Lessons from Tifa

She Remembered that Comment

Chocobo Cart: Cloud in Screenshots

Cloud Looking Back at Tifa - Chapter 18

Cloud Saves Tifa

Tifa is Important to Cloud

More About Why Tifa is Important to Cloud

Hopes, Dreams, and Curiosities Series - My “Wishlists” for Future Parts of Remake

Part 2 Hopes, Dreams, and Curiosities

Part 3.1 Hopes, Dreams, and Curiosities

My Thoughts on The Lifestream and Highwind Scenes

Nojima on Characters in Remake

Cloud is a Cinnamon Bun

Cloud Doesn’t Like Giving Bad News

Soft for Barret

Marlene is Afraid of Cloud

More Cloud Soft for Barret

Cloud’s Depression During Advent Children

Why Zack is Important to Cloud

Zerith Specific

Why Zack is Important to Aerith

Train Graveyard Series

Train Graveyard Part 1 Falling in the cargo container Triple Arm Grab

Train Graveyard Part 2   Triple Arm Grab

Train Graveyard Part 3  Part 1 of the RUN scene

Train Graveyard Part 3.5 Part 2 of the RUN scene

Train Graveyard Part 4 Cloud suspects a poltergeist

Train Graveyard Part 5 Cloud and Tifa nope the fuck out

My Thoughts on the LTD (Long Term Debate) of FFVII

OG vs Remake Affection Point System Part 1

OG vs Remake Affection Point System Part 2

Shipping Makes Me Question My Sanity

The Future of the LTD Includes links to other blogs as well for further LTD Death analysis and discussion

Why is the LTD Back? Maybe?

“Is Tifa like... your girlfriend?”

Under the Highwind - High vs Low Affection - OG

How I Became a Cloti Fan (Maybe) Discussions on memory and why I probably think I remember something I don’t or feelings I may have never had 20 years ago.

Jessie Asks Cloud About Tifa

So Your Ship (or Theory) Isn’t Canon

Shitposts

WTF Were Biggs and Wedge Thinking?

A Collection of Cloud... Looking at Something...

Back Dat Ass Up.. In to Cloud

“Ghosts Aren’t My Thing”

Drunk History of the FFVII Compilation

Other Interesting Discussions

Rufus Shinra Read the comments through on this one, LOT of great back and forth discussion. Ultimately my thoughts changed from the original post, because it’s okay to do that when you’re presented with new information.

I think that’s also why they’re focusing a lot more on the building of friendships and bonds between all of the characters instead of just romantic relationships. 

It also makes it harder for people to simply assume Aerith and Tifa are just there to be romantic interests for the protagonist, which is something I’ve unfortunately seen. They’re focusing on them as individuals and them as friends, not the love triangle.

I doubt that they will fix the translations in Part 2 but I really hope that they do and have a new translator for it or something. It's really unnecessary to be causing all of this shipping drama, and everybody is sick of it. 2/2

Hi anon,

I’m very behind on asks, but I’m assuming you wrote this in during the time that it really blew up. It seems even Nojima commented on it, and they did the interview with a few of the localization teams, including Ben Sabin, and of course he was the most defensive. 

They can’t really get away with it like they used to back in the 90s, since there is now global social media and people who speak multiple languages to fact check translations. 

English was different than most of the languages - the ones I’ve seen are French, German, Japanese, and Italian. The scene in the Train Graveyard, where Aerith says “Mine!” is in no other version except English.

Tifa’s face is even different in the English version! Now, I played Remake before I joined fandom, so I didn’t have the same attitude on it as somebody who was more into it. I saw the Mine! thing as an OG callback to Aerith’s interest in the LTD, but Cloud clearly doesn’t really show interest in it. His preference is pretty clear during this scene, which I find hilarious. 

The other line that was added in English is the one in the Shinra building where he says “That’s where you are.” or something along those lines. No other language has him say that. They are strictly talking about where labs are, and Cloud says “Upper floors” in almost every other language, but says nothing about her. 

I am going to bet that the NA team was probably talked to, since it DID blow up on social media and I think the writers were probably upset that some scenes had context changed due to the differences. 

Aerith’s resolution scene is another one often referenced.

There are multiple instances where Cloud says Tifa in other languages, but it was replaced with another line. The three examples off the top of my head that I can think of are “Hey” during Jessie’s death, when he catches her on the pillar and says “What the hell?”, and in the Train Graveyard after Tifa sees Marlene, he says “What was that about?”. In the other versions, he either says her name or is more concerned than what they portray in English. 

Personally, I think that how Cody delivered the “Hey” line with the voice crack was perfect. It’s also not as common in English to say a person’s name as much as he did in Japanese, but the parts where they could have had him sound closer to what he sounds like in Japanese tone wise I scratch my head at. 

As for Part 2, I’m betting they will not do the same thing. They’re going to stay as faithful to the Japanese as they can. In some cases, they can’t - localization is a bit different than straight translation, and some stuff would be lost that people might be sad about. Examples are things like Reno saying “Shit-birds” or saying “It’s nothing personal... bitch!” Those are lines people like.

Same with “Nailed it, thank you, moving on.” That’s in the English version, and it’s one of those lines that people love. I think those are fine. Some people think the original for that where Cloud tells Tifa he had no choice may be better, but I do enjoy that Nailed it line.