Been having thoughts about post-canon akeshu in almost a Schrodinger's cat way. Post engine room Ren, who just keeps going, who doesn't really let himself think about what happened to Akechi. Post 2/2 Ren, who leaves for his hometown, who thinks about calling Akechi but never tries. Post canon Ren who returns to Tokyo, who sees beige blazers and brown hair in his peripheral and never turns his head. Ren, who never tries to contact Akechi, who never researches him online, who doesn't even look at newspapers, who doesn't want to check. Ren, who wants to look away, who doesn't want to know what happened.
Because deep down he already knows, but as long as he doesn't confirm it, there's still hope. Ren, who doesn't look into the box, because if there's no definite proof, then Akechi might still be alive. Ren, who can't carry the weight of actually knowing, so he'd rather look away.
If you don't look inside the box, the cat is both alive and dead - you can theorize as much as you want, without any proof in either direction. The only way to know is to open the box. But are you ready to face a dead cat?
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I always find it so fascinating when ppl make jokes along the line of "yeah we're all upset this ship isn't canon, it's real to all of us but you just gotta look past it" (in contexts of spn, etc)
But I have to say wha - and orufrey specifically - has been such a funny example of that for me cause like. Guys the manga isn't even done. Like idk maybe I'm the insane one but how is it definitely not canon rn.
"it's not canon but we all know" idk man just bc they didn't kiss I don't believe that shits not canon. Quite frankly in the story right now it can't be canon like that, but if "the skys most kindest radiant star" didn't imply enough I don't know what ever will.
We need to talk more about how Akira Kurusu/Amamiya Ren/Joker/whateveryouwanttocallhim is a massive freak. And not just in the sense of being a societal outcast and being seen as strange and intimidating and bla bla. Like that too, but moreso him just being feral and unhinged deeply to his core.
he makes a deal with what could be assumed to be a demon and is just chill with it. he lets a random doctor he just met give him whatever drugs she wants in exchange for meds. he works for an ex-yakuza and gets into bullshit with the yakuza for fun. he accepted a plan where he could just get shot like it was nothing. HE MET UP WITH AKECHI TO FIGHT IN A REMOTE LOCATION KNOWING HE WAS PLANNING ON KILLING HIM!
those are just some of the examples but I feel like we forget too much that he is deeply unhinged and a freak, and not just some guytm.
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Deeply personal wha post this is probably nothing but I want to talk about it. Anyways spoilers for the manga I'm unsure what chapter just if you don't want to get spoiled don't read this
Bc one of the things that hits me the most about qifreys character is the way his vision is dealt with. And idk maybe this is fork found in kitchen, coming from the guy who's legally blind on one eye and has generally deteriorating vision and issues w his cornea, but qifreys experience with eyesight kind of hit.
For the most part it's really subtle, like it's there but he can see fine enough he can go about his day and doesn't really have to worry about it. He's used to it and he can handle it and it doesn't impact him in any major way.
It's probably still exhausting and makes certain things harder but we don't get any of that, but that's also because it's so commonplace by now. He's so adjusted to it of course there's no real problems anymore.
But then he realizes his eyesight is getting worse, he's losing his vision in his good eye - and yeah obviously it has some other connotations and consequences for him as well - but I love how that alone is terrifying in such a subtle and underlying way.
Specifically in witch society where vision is so important. We learn so early on in the manga how much witches value good sight, how much they talk down on you when you don't have this. Tartar is an example of this from the beginning that teaches us that seeing is so important as almost a status symbol.
And then we learn qifrey is losing his vision entirely and that's fucking terrifying. Because yes the curse, but also bc even if the curse doesn't take his body his life is basically over anyways. He wouldn't be able to research or teach apprentices or work as a witch at all anymore.
Idk at the end of the day something in me just feels seen with a character that has these issues, not from like a cool battle scar or whatever, but something that's just in him. And it won't be fixed anytime soon, realistically he'll never get his full vision back. None of this makes him cool or badass it's tragic and fucked up and terrifying but he works with it and idk man. That means smth to me
I think what a lot of people forget about the narrative positions of "hero" and "villain" in persona 5 is that they are so dependent on the POV we have.
This is mildly an extension of "Goro and Ren are quite similar if you open your eyes" but moreso on broader themes.
(I am actively choosing to not use "good" and "evil" because they don't quite apply, so I'm using "hero" and "villain". Be aware that I'm using those terms in a stereotypical superhero way, not necessarily as what they mean in storytelling in general. I just can't think of better terms right now)
Because if I'm honest, the only reason people see Ren as a hero, in any way, is because we see the story from his perspective. Looking from an outsider, he is an antihero at best and a villain at worst.
Sure, we see abandoned student Ren, who's doing his best to be seen as nice, who wants to help people who are suffering, who is changing evil people for the good of society at large. He helps the weak and brings down the oppressors and he's always right.
But that's kind of because we don't see teen fugitive Amamiya Ren. The new kid, who abstracts his looks (and even behaviours) to manipulate people to like him more. Leader of this mystical group that forcibly changes peoples behaviour somehow. Ominous whispers about this strange otherworldly power that modifies someone at their core.
From this point of view, his behaviour can be read as kind of fucked up. He gets close to every single 'victim' of the people he takes down, and has them join his side. He has connections to the mafia. He takes down a global hacking organization. He infiltrates a national broadcast to deliver his own mission.
Again, I'm not saying these are evil things, we know the background of his behaviour, but I'm making a point about perspective.
Similarly, I think Goro would seem less fucked up and villainous if the perspective switched. Because suddenly he's an abandoned orphan on a path for revenge. Getting closer to a man who harmed hundreds of people, he slowly climbs the social ladder. To appeal to people, he puts on a charming smile, rather than sharing the darkest corners of himself with any stranger.
He has this power, and it's dubious, but he uses it for what he believes in. It's not truly malicious, he doesn't really believe himself to be above these people, it's simply the only way to reach his goal. He does whatever he needs to succeed.
Here, I almost can hear in the back of my mind the voices say "well but Goro killed people" "murder is a way different step" "the mental breakdowns are way worse than a change of heart"
And first of all, not completely point of what I just said, but still lines in neatly with my perspective topic.
Because the only reason we, as the player, don't think the changes are fucked, is because of our perspective. Of course we're doing good, we're making these people become better without any harm being done.
Well, besides the fact that we don't actually know what a change of heart truly does. We don't know how it feels to the person. We don't know how it works.
The only glimpse we get into that is in third semester in p5r, where we see Maruki use a similar power. A power that was in fact created, based on the doings of the phantom thieves. And maybe that's just me - but that didn't seem very nice.
So yeah sure, Goro killed people, but is it truly so much more morally reprehensible than breaking who a person is at their core?
Is a death ethically acceptable if it's less violent to witness?
This isn't even about Goro not being "evil" or a villain or whatever - that's not a point I'm trying to make. I think Goro is fucked up, I think a lot of the things he did were deeply fucked up.
I just also think it's wild to keep acting like Ren and the Phantom Thieves are innocent angels that never did anything wrong. The only reason you believe that is because you haven't considered their actions from the outside for even a second
If I had a nickel for every time I was obsessed with an antagonistic side character who over the span of the story becomes a part of the main cast while staying antagonistic and growing a rivalry with the hero complex main character (who had bad experiences with the justice system), which then eventually turns weirdly caring and affectionate while also still being fuelled by hate and distrust, but he still always stays deeply hated by said main characters friends, partly because they don't trust them but also partly because he has actually done fucked up things and hurt them personally, which only gets worse when the character later shows himself as a true villain, harming the main character and his friends deeply and cutting all ties with them, leaving them filled with hatred and regret (with the main character not letting go of his belief in him), only to then sacrifice himself for the main character and his friends in one final act of revealing his true heart after only speaking in lies and deceptions in the second to last chapter of the game, leaving the main character filled with despair and grief while his friends grapple with the reality that they never actually understood what was going on with him - I'd have two nickels. Which is a bit surprising.
