“He was also a cop ...”
[early Pete + Carl Interview, translated from german]
Interview conducted by Michael Schuh, November 22, 2002, Munich
Munich. The Atomic Cafe is sold out. LAUT dared to talk to the two songwriters of the band who are currently causing a sensation with their debut album "Up The Bracket": Pete Doherty and Carl Barât. Despite the warning from the record company envoy: "They are often a bit out of order, but well ... have fun anyway, Michel." The man was right.
You are on tour in Germany for the first time. How have you been received so far?
Pete: Good.
Silence.
Did you notice any differences to your gigs in England?
Pete: No.
They are sitting in front of me now, Pete and Carl. One wears a torn black leather jacket, the other a camouflage army parka. I'm not leaning too far out of the window with the claim that both of them could just imagine more exciting things than telling strangers about their past. Pete gets up briefly to wear sunglasses in the dimly lit room and then sits down with us again. His colleague Carl is eating a sandwich in slow motion and is careful not to look at me.
Is the reaction in Berlin the same as in London?
Pete: The reactions to our shows are very different in England too, it changes from one night to the next. That's why every concert is different. Different clubs, different cities, different people. Young and old. Journalists and drinkers. Those are the joys of playing live: you never know what will happen next.
Your debut album "Up The Bracket" caused generally euphoric reactions and comparisons to legendary English bands like The Jam or The Clash. Isn't that a great burden?
Pete: I don't have a problem with that, as long as people mean what they write. Do you understand? If they just say it like that, that's different. But if there are actually people who believe that we wrote songs that come close to The Jam or The Smiths ... well, if people came up to me to tell me that, then I wouldn't know what to answer. I would have to think. But I hope, they really think it because I think so, too. We live in our songs like in a cocoon.
Do you care what is written about your music?
Pete: We are the young believers, you see? We are kind of innocent and we are proud of what we do. We wouldn't be on tour and we wouldn't do anything else that we didn't want to do. Reading reviews is not a motivation, you get to it every now and then. We read reviews of ourselves years ago when we were playing in front of three people. But most of the things that are written, I don't see as reviews. Maybe I'm just boring, but it's very rare, that the songs are really described. About how someone feels when they hear them. Or about ideas in a song. I never read anything about that. Sometimes I really think that 20 or 30 years ago, you last tried to express what songs moved you. I do not know either. But our songs are very personal and if the answer to that is some kind of clinical cliché, then that's ... a shame.
What does it mean to you to release records on Rough Trade?
Silence. Carl looks down the hall and seems to have forgotten the question again, assuming he's even listening. Pete fiddles with his sunglasses. Very long seconds pass.
Pete: It's a family.
Carl (mumbling into a piece of bread crust on his plate): They're outsiders who work for love.
Your first single "What A Waster" was produced by ex-Suede guitarist Bernard Butler, with the follow-up "Up The Bracket" ex-Clash guitarist Mick Jones was already in the studio. Can you believe that yourself in retrospect?
They look at me (even Carl) and don't say anything. Today is either not her day, or above all not mine. Carl also thinks that he has contributed enough to the subject with the sentence, he just uttered and devotes himself to a new sandwich.
Pete: Maybe it all went like this, because we wrote some of the best and simplest pop songs in years. And still write. Our songs are simple and at the same time seem to be of such a quality that people are drawn to them. That could be a reason. For example, I can't get that damn song "Up The Bracket" out of my head. Never. I've had nightmares about it. It's the most incredible song I've ever heard. Apart from that, I'm very tired right now. (grins)
You still have to tell about the work with Mick Jones, who ultimately produced your entire album. Was it an easy thing to work with?
Pete: Well, I wouldn't describe it that way, but it went pretty well with him. There were few communication problems. He understood the songs immediately.
Carl: It was just difficult to find the right take.
So he was driving you?
Carl: He didn't have to push us. We drove him.
Pete grins, Carl doesn't make a face. I'll take a moment to recover from Carl's communications offensive and continue.
Did you want to sign Jones for the album right from the start?
Pete: It was originally just for the single, but we wanted to record other songs that same week. So we asked him if he might want to stay longer.
In retrospect, were you dissatisfied with Bernard Butler's work on "What A Waster"?
Pete: Oh no, we are very proud to work with him. But he just does his own stuff. And he didn't have time to leave it. (Pause) He's also had a falling out with our manager. It started with a food fight and then it got very gross. In the end, he was hit by a pumpkin and his eye was black.
As we come to the anecdotes: they say you had problems in England with your soundman and the tour manager. The first left voluntarily, the second was fired by you.
Pete: I guess it is.
Breathless silence.
What's so difficult about touring with you guys?
Pete: Nothing, touring is great fun.
I get the urgent feeling that this is a topic, that should be kept quiet. Even the easy-going Pete suddenly seems slightly annoyed.
So this anecdote is fictitious?
Pete: No, it's true. You got the facts right. And now there is nothing more to say about it.
Then you can't understand, that your ex-tour manager should have said that, compared to the Libertines, the Strokes are pussycats on tour.
Pete: Yes. He said that because he's toured with the Strokes too.
Carl gets up and leaves the room. Also an answer. Pete looks hostile. But well, if the exchange of internals is not desired, let's leave that. I now spontaneously declare the interview over. But as soon as I want to switch off the minidisc, I suddenly have to speak. I would have expected Carl to come back into the room and introduce me to his baseball bat.
Pete: Besides, he was a cop and we didn't know that.
Addendum: The appearance of the Libertines then turned into a 50-minute garage rock inferno for which there are no words. Whoever speaks little has more to say, it seems. However, the two encores noted on the setlist were not played, which for once was perhaps due to the Atomic audience, who hoped to get a rock boost mainly through telepathy. Great mosh pit sport.
https://www.laut.de/The-Libertines/Interviews/Ausserdem-war-er-Polizist-...-22-11-2002-107
