#dramasec

Got me some funky new earbuds #DramaSec (at Непин)

— Jay Leiderman (@JayLeidermanLaw) June 16, 2013

KY Anonymous diss track. The blowback in progress

I'm so fucking offended not to be on this list. Also, this guy can't hold his liquor, clearly.

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Patrick Frey Date: 2012/6/21 Subject: Chat with Patrick Frey To: [email protected] 12:23 AM Patrick: I thought Project PM was partially about posing as others using sock puppets 12:24 AM me: one second 12:28 AM okay, sorry Project PM has never been about that, where did you get that impression? Patrick: Maybe I'm wrong, I admit ignorance on the whole thing Vague memory 12:29 AM Something Rauhauser said, I think You don't know how to spell his name??? 12:30 AM me: Okay, Project PM started in late 2009 and was originally intended to incubate experimental online activism/philanthropy/blogging setups, I talked about it in my outlets like HuffPo, Vanity Fair, Skeptical Inquirer when I was recruiting Patrick: Rauhauser has described himself as a participant 12:31 AM me: He probably thought of himself as a participant, he hung out in our IRC channel off and on for a while, originally under his own name 12:32 AM As I recall he was keen on telling us about various networks he was developing by which to keep congressmen appraised of policy info via their assistants or what have you 12:33 AM As back then, our focus was largely on building either a blogging network based around a schematic I designed, and then using a similar schematic for crowd-sourced projects along the lines of our Science Journalism Improvement Project at any rate, that's how I met the guy, I'm assuming he found out about PM via one of my HuffPo posts one sec, just saw you sent an e-mail 12:34 AM Patrick: Don't take offense me: Er, okay Patrick: It's characteristically blunt me: Regarding me being unlikely to take McCain at face value, that's absolutely true, considering the circumstances Patrick: Most people live their lives as bullshitters and I don't want to be that way me: but in this case he's excerpting something that Neal wrote in his own words 12:35 AM Patrick: True enough me: So it doesn't matter who put it forward and whether or not I trust the person excerpting it 12:36 AM I knew that Neal did something involving Twitter but didn't know the nature of it until I saw your post from the other day in which you lay out these various bizarre messages about this woman "asking for it" or what have you Patrick: What woman asking for it? I don't remember that 12:37 AM me: Also I understand your general suspicion since Neal has been involved in some extent with portions of Anonymous and all that, one sec, I'll show you 12:38 AM it's on one of your recent posts, him or one of his people say something like "you weren't raped it was rough sex" Patrick: OccupyRebellion Mocking Liberty Chick me: yes 12:39 AM Patrick: Well, look Everything I tell you is with the thought in mind that you could be the earnest Barrett Brown I like to think of you as being, or me: I guess the best way for me to get you to understand that I'm in earnest is to explain that I'm in some degree of contact with a huge number of people, and am not able or inclined to keep track of everything everyone does Patrick: You could be Neal's best buddy dispatched to find out what I know 12:40 AM I'll just tell the truth either way Neal has openly declared that he wants to see me: fired bankrupted sued disgraced prosecuted for God knows what crimes and so forth me: Yeah, I'm not sure how to convince you otherwise Patrick: I believe he is a psychopath And he is FIXATED on me by all accounts 12:41 AM Don't worry about it Again: I'm being straight with you no matter what your role is 12:42 AM He has done his level best to make it seem as though he was involved in my SWATting me: I would simply say that I don't hold you responsible for the things that McCain does, even though he has publicly accused me of being an FBI informant twice in the past month, because I know that every relationship is nuanced, that not everyone knows or approves of everything that every other person does that he has any sort of contact with Patrick: And though I know you have no love for federal law enforcement, I hope they get to the bottom of that You know McCain and I have scrapped me: Yes, I do Patrick: I have not taken back anything I said 12:43 AM But what I said was misportrayed by some And I believe he is doing an energetic and good job revealing Neal's role in the harassment suffered by me and others 12:44 AM Put it this way: Stacy McCain never took any action to have me killed I can't say the same about Neal with any confidence You a fan of Jay Leiderman? 12:45 AM me: Anyway, I wrote you that e-mail because I generally disapprove of what Neal seems to have been involved with, and am not asking you for any info, and will happily answer any questions you might have, although I haven't followed all of this closely enough to have much insight Patrick: Represents Commander X? Hero to Anonymous activists? Right? me: Yes and no He doesn't represent Commander X Patrick: Elaborate please Then the media articles I read are wrong Because they say he does 12:46 AM me: I met Leiderman a while back, he helped to arrange pro bono defense for many of the people who were raided and then charged with the DDOS attacks against Paypal last year Patrick: What a guy 12:47 AM You guys are supposedly in favor of free speech, right? me: X has another lawyer who actually technically repped him, Leiderman has simply assisted on that and other cases Patrick: But I guess you will profess ignorance on Leiderman's thug tactics against me Right? me: Excuse me 12:48 AM Patrick: You know he is representing someone suing me because of a BLOG POST I did Don't you??? Do you not know that? me: I don't know what tactics you're referring to, and if you'd like to tell me I'll listen, but keep in mind that I don't know everything Patrick: I am asking Neal arranged for that representation me: Can you not ask by starting with "I guess you'll profess ignorance"? Patrick: OK 12:49 AM I feel defensive because I know you have had interactions with the guy and he is trying to sue me for a blog post It seems like you would know about that, but I'll be fair to you and just ask if you do 12:50 AM me: On whose behalf is he suing you, Neals? Patrick: Nadia Naffe Neal arranged it Neal and Leiderman have also discussed suing me and others for RICO me: I've seen her being retweeted, not sure exactly what her deal is? Patrick: Simple 12:51 AM Neal put her up to suing me On behalf of Kimberlin That's her deal The. End. me: So, they've sent you something about that? Patrick: Suing me and my boss, actually Nah I read about it all online On Breitbart Unmasked 12:52 AM On emails from Neal sent to others that they forward to me Etc. On Nadia's Twitter feed I know there is a civil claim against me and my boss But I get to learn all about it by reading about it on Twitter feeds and sites associated with Neal and Nadia and Kimberlin 12:53 AM Lawsuits to retaliate against people for commentary on public controversies: is that part of the Anonymous creed? Because it's sure part of Neal's creed And Kimberlin's 12:54 AM It would be interesting to see you publicly pronounce on this I thought Anonymous stood for free speech. But Neal's version stands for free speech of the sort he likes -- and retaliating against the sort he doesn't like 12:55 AM me: I've told you, just now, via e-mail, that I don't approve of Neal, and have apologized to you for having associated with him As for Anonymous Patrick: He also has gone after my wife on numerous occasions 12:56 AM Which is totally thuggish as she is a Democrat and doesn't even agree with my politics. But I love her because my life is about more than just politics me: There's quite a bit I don't approve of that has gone on under its "banner," and I've been pretty vocal about that Patrick: I am not a political automaton I am a human being with a family 12:57 AM me: You don't need to tell me that, I don't think you are Patrick: And a job that Neal Rauhauser and Brett Kimberlin are trying their level best to get me fired from A job I do well And honestly, and ethically And your pal Leiderman is part of their little jihad 12:58 AM me: Can you please slow down a bit and keep in mind that I'm trying to do the right thing here? Patrick: I wouldn't be talking to you if I didn't think that was at least a possibility me: The whole reason I approached you is that I've seen some of this via these recent posts and don't like what's been directed at you 12:59 AM Patrick: But I'm not stupid either, and I am suspicious, and if my suspicion is unfair as directed at you I hope you don't take it personally I am suspicious but open-minded You have always seemed to have a good heart 1:00 AM me: I understand that, but please remember, again, that I'm answering any questions you have Patrick: Maybe you fooled me but that's how you have come across me: If you want to trade stories about who's family is being targeted by who's faction, I can tell you some great stuff about what the FBI is doing to my mom Otherwise, let's keep this on point Patrick: Well, you owe it to yourself to learn more about Jay Leiderman and his involvement with trying to ruin my life 1:01 AM I'd listen to what the FBI is doing to your mom I'm no fan of the FBI these days as I think they have been cavalier about what happened to me and my family me: There's no reason for me to tell you about it because it won't help anything and it's not something you yourself did Patrick: OK 1:02 AM me: I just want you to understand that I'm also being targeted and that although I want to be helpful to whomever is being wronged, and do understand that you're being wronged, and although I'm willing to do whatever is the right thing even if it's going to cause me additional problems I don't need, I also don't want to be spoken to along those lines Patrick: There are people who would say I am crazy for even talking to you. Maybe I am. I assume the FBI monitors your chat logs, as I have always said. I don't say anything that I would be embarassed to have revealed 1:03 AM "I also don't want to be spoken to along those lines" -- what do you mean? me: As for Leiderman 1:04 AM Patrick: Look, I try to give everyone the respect they have earned. As far as I know, you have treated me with respect. I don't want you to see me as a sucker, but I don't mean to insult you in any way me: That's fine 1:05 AM Look, what questions do you have for me, and I'll answer them Patrick: I'll give you the benefit of the doubt as I think you have tried to be straight with me Leiderman? Expound on him; brb 5 minutes 1:11 AM me: Well, mostly I just know him via efforts I was making in early 2011 to arrange pro bono defense for those who were raided, and he's also provided advice to various other activists and all of that, but vis a vis this situation with you, I don't know much. Neal sent me a message about six months ago give or take that he had gotten Leiderman to rep him on something but I didn't pay attention to what, or maybe he didn't say Patrick: Can you forward that? me: I don't know what he personally knows even about Reahauser, or what he's been told by him, or whatever 1:12 AM It wasn't an e-mail, is the problem Patrick: RaUhauser So? Screenshot it and forward it me: most of the communications I've gotten from him have been on IRC or Skype messaging 1:13 AM No, as in don't still have it, assuming you're not familiar with how IRC works but one has to actively log convos to keep them Patrick: Never used it 1:14 AM me: It's popular with Anons and the "other side" as well, sort of a niche medium anyway Patrick: Well, if you truly disapprove of the guy and his actions, I would appreciate your forwarding whatever he has sent you in the past 1-2 years me: as for Skype Patrick: That you can 1:15 AM me: it only keeps from last 3 months, and the only text messages I have from him on skype consist of him expressing irritation that I haven't picked up his calls as in [3/8/2012 9:38:37 PM] Neal Rauhauser: meh [3/12/2012 1:15:15 AM] Neal Rauhauser: oh [5/25/2012 12:57:10 AM] Neal Rauhauser: Hey [6/1/2012 8:54:16 PM] * Missed call from Neal Rauhauser. * 1:16 AM Patrick: Well 1:17 AM How about what I described that Leiderman is doing to me? Thumbs up or thumbs down from you? me: as for gmail Patrick: Go ahead, about Gmail 1:18 AM me: I've got a number of messages from him over last year, most of which I never responded to, some of which appear to be sent to about ten people and are generally updates regarding his weiner twitter nonsense 1:19 AM Patrick: I'd be interested in all those You already sent me a couple me: then some about occupy, a couple of irritating ones about something he didn't like about some aspect of Anon that he seems to have thought I had some control over, etc Patrick: I'd be interested in any and all emails from him 1:20 AM He's trying to destroy my life due to some fantasy he has (or at least professes to have) about me and Weiner As if I would care that much about some Congressman from New York 1:21 AM me: there don't seem to be any more here with your name in them other than the two I sent you Patrick: Anything he has sent would be useful 1:22 AM Up to you Don't know what you really think of him As for Leiderman I would like an answer as to your thoughts about his trying to sue me out of a job 1:23 AM me: Pat, I'd really have to see what Leiderman himself has said or done in regards to suing you out of your job before I comment on that I haven't asked you to say anything about McCain trying to claim I'm likely to throw a grenade at the Pentagon 1:25 AM Patrick: Read my blog about Nadia Naffe me: Neal obviously has a tendency to exaggerate what he's doing and who approves/is involved, and frankly 1:26 AM Patrick: http://patterico.com/2012/06/12/more-evidence-emerges-of-brett-kimberlins-involvement-in-nadia-naffe-litigation-against-me/ me: If I do get an indication that Leiderman is actually going to try to sue you, I'll talk to him and tell him to reconsider and pass on whatever message from you or do whatever else is appropriate from my end Patrick: Oh, Leiderman is the lawyer on the lawsuit against me Read what I just sent you 1:27 AM me: So there is a lawsuit? Patrick: Right now it's a civil claim A "tort claims act" claim Precursor to a civil suit in regular court Read the link I just sent 1:28 AM Also, this: Nadia Naffe’s civil claim against me — Nadia Naffe has now filed a civil claim against me and my boss Steve Cooley — and the lawyer is Jay Leiderman, an online buddy of Neal Rauhauser’s who put out a request on a defense attorney mailing list to investigate whether any defense attorneys don’t like me. Although I have not seen the legal claim myself, excerpts of Naffe’s legal claim have appeared at the web site of self-described Kimberlin supporter and Rauhauser friend BreitbartUnmasked.com. Before the claim was filed, Rauhauser and @BreitbartUnmasked encouraged Naffe to file the sorts of claims that appear in the civil claim. Naffe has publicly said that she plans to use her lawsuit against me to ask questions in discovery about the value of my house — a topic in which Rauhauser and @OccupyRebellion have expressed interest in the past. According to a friend of mine, Naffe has also said that she plans to ask me and my wife under oath the true identity of conservative blogger Ace of Spades. Which is not something she ought to care about, since Ace had never said a word about her (although he has now). You know who cares about Ace’s identity? Brett Kimberlin supporter @BreitbartUnmask. He has written entire posts about Ace’s identity. And before I was swatted, someone threatened me by email. That person threatened one other person the same night: Ace of Spades. Additionally, Brett Kimberlin has used a subpoena in the Seth Allen lawsuit to subpoena James O’Keefe’s stolen emails from Naffe — despite the fact that there has been a final judgment in that lawsuit. From this post: http://patterico.com/2012/05/25/convicted-bomber-brett-kimberlin-neal-rauhauser-ron-brynaert-and-their-campaign-of-political-terrorism/ 1:29 AM Leiderman is ABSOLUTELY a lawyer in a civil claim against me and my boss Arranged by Neal ABSOLUTELY And He was snooping around on me, using a defense attorney email list I heard about it from the defense attorney on one of my cases Said Leiderman sent out an email asking about me 1:30 AM me: And what is the complaint, or grounds? Patrick: Read this post: http://patterico.com/2012/03/24/documents-from-nadia-naffes-race-discrimination-case-against-the-rnc-the-computer-that-was-never-returned/ 1:31 AM Let me know when you're done 1:34 AM me: okay Patrick: See where I link her depo? me: So she's trying to sue you for having allegedly provided advice to O'Keefe? Patrick: It's hundreds of pages, straight from PACER me: or, rather, filing a bar complaint? 1:35 AM Patrick: Hang on one second You see that One, two, three = links to her depo See it? "The relevance of the laptop is described in her deposition, which I found on PACER as well, in three parts: one, two, and three. " 1:36 AM me: yes, these are PDFs that will take me a while to download Patrick: All public documents, you agree? me: sure Patrick: I found them on PACER OK Well, the idiots who uploaded them didn't redact what they were supposed to redact So For example They asked her her SS# It was in there I had NO IDEA 1:37 AM Within maybe an hour or so of my putting it up, Ron Brynaert triumphantly announced on Twitter that I had published her SS# Which of course I had no intention of doing I IMMEDIATELY took it down me: Okay, let's stop right there, on Ron Brynaert 1:38 AM Patrick: But now she is suing me for, supposedly, deliberately putting up her SS# To intimidate her me: You know that this guy has been harassing me as well? Patrick: I would believe it He is CRAZY Anyway I took it down Redacted it me: And thinks I run some sort of major conspiracy involving the media Patrick: And put it back up And your pal Leiderman Now sues me Claiming I was trying to intimidate her 1:39 AM By publishing her SS# and her "medical records" Because she was asked in the depo what medications she takes, and she answered So: I put up public docs from PACER And Leiderman and Naffe sue me There you have it That is the claim All arranged by Neal And Kimberlin 1:40 AM I have the screenshots showing they arranged for Leiderman to be her lawyers lawyer And that they encouraged her to file a complaint with my office Neal and Brett are using her and Leiderman to 1) sue me and 2) try to get me fired Nice, ethical, and moral, huh? You support that? 1:41 AM me: No, I don't Patrick: That's your pal Leiderman He's in league with Neal on this 100% 100% me: So, what would you like me to do on this? Patrick: It's thuggish It's anti free speech 1:42 AM It's everything you are supposedly against Oppose it, publicly Speak out me: Now, if I do so As in, if I take up your side on this, publicly, in whatever outlets I have remaining to me Patrick: Yes? 1:43 AM You'll confuse the hell out of a lot of people 1:44 AM me: Are you going to follow my example and call out McCain for the several posts he's written about me being an FBI informant? The reason I ask is because 1:45 AM I'm more than happy to answer your questions, like I have, things along those lines. 1:46 AM I just don't know what my responsibility should be to you, in terms of conflicts you're involved in with a lawyer to whom I'm somewhat indebted for having helped to ensure that various young people who are facing 15 years for DDOSing a corporate website get free legal representation 1:47 AM Like I said, I don't like Neal, and obviously Brett Kimberlin is deranged 1:48 AM It's just that you're asking me to take your side in a conflict between you and another party with whom I'm acquainted, Liederman, whereas I just don't think you would be inclined to take my side in a matter between and another party with whom you're acquainted, McCain Do you think that's a reasonable question/point for me to make? Patrick: It comes down to this: 1:49 AM 1) Have I proven to you that the lawsuit against me is bullshit? 2) Have you proven to me that McCain's allegations about you are bullshit? I like to think of myself as intellectually honest You KNOW the shit I have taken from my side for calling them out when I thought it was right 1:50 AM Don't deny that So I am not looking for a "deal" here me: As for 2), you and I haven't spent 45 minutes discussing McCain's allegations against you, whereas we've just spent 45 minutes discussing Liederman's participation in something against you Patrick: If you prove to me that McCain is saying bullshit about you, I'll call it bullshit me: I don't mean to imply anything in terms of a "deal" Patrick: If you think I have proven Leiderman's lawsuit is bullshit, I'd like you to call it bullshit Not a deal 1:51 AM Just intellectual honesty Send me whatever proof you like that McCain is full of it I'll look at it I think I have a track record I call out bullshit when I see it me: What I mean is that I would obviously have to think more about this and talk to Leiberman and see what exactly they're thinking in terms of this before I would go out and denounce him Patrick: You can't really plausibly deny that 1:52 AM Whatever me: Just as you would need me to show you and discuss what MCCain has said about me and why it's wrong before you'd go out and do anything about that Again, does that make sense? Patrick: Nadia wants to use the lawsuit to out Ace of Spades It's total fucking complete bullshit 1:53 AM me: Please keep in mind that I've forwarded you private e-mails from Neal concerning you, and I think that's a sign of good faith on my part 1:54 AM That I'm really trying to be intellectually honest and, moreover, functionally honest, despite the problems I would face to the extent that I get involved in this whole affair 1:55 AM I guess you left?

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Shadow Shadow ‏@thefatechannel If you wondered whether you should trust @NextSecOfficial read and decide for yourself. #anonymous @youranonnews http://pastebin.com/PP45e1YY

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