#chat garlic bread

Something I noticed (read: thought about on a whim last night at like 3am 😭) is that in Persona Order often takes a chaotic form, while chaos takes a form of order, and I'll elaborate on that a little later but first, did I mention this will contain spoilers for all the persona games? 😭

We Know order and chaos exist in the persona series as themes because of the oldsona games, particularly the persona 2 duology, where we have Philemon filling the role of order and Nyarlathotep filling the role of chaos. This is not something you have to read into to see, Nyarlathotep is literally called 'The Crawling Chaos', but these themes are only this strong in the oldsona games.

From persona 3 onward, the themes of order vs chaos are much more subtextual. In the grand scheme of the persona series lore, the velvet room works under Philemon, hence representing order in the series. This means that the player is always choosing order to get the good ending, which leaves their adversaries to represent chaos.

Taking the endings of each modernsona game, we can analyse them through this lens. However, when you do so, you realise the point I made at the start.

For example, both the original and royal endings for persona 5. I believe this 'order in the form of chaos' concept is most vividly shown here. In the game where you strive for rebellion against loss of autonomy, Joker takes aim against two 'gods' that wish for control.

On some level, what both Yaldabaoth and Maruki are striving for, is a form of order. Yet since Joker is a wildcard, and therefore representative of the velvet room's ideals, the 'gods' are fighting on the side of chaos, while the persona users, who strive for freedom and autonomy regardless of comfort in a messy and painful world, are fighting on the side of order.

You can see what I'm illustrating, can't you?

Let's take another case study, Persona 4's ending. In persona 4 you're fighting for the truth, in all its messy, painful, and unwanted glory. You're fighting against the possibility of turning a blind eye, and since Yu is, again, a wild card, he is acting in line with what the velvet room, and by extension Philemon, want, order through chaos.

Izanami, on the other hand, offers a placating lie, a comforting untruth, which, again, in a sense could be seen as acting in line with a general concept of order, keeping the peace. Yet, she is acting in opposition to the velvet room, and by extension, order, making her representative of chaos.

And for completions sake (totally not because its my favourite... don't look at my pfp) let's take a look at the ending of persona 3.

I have a lot of thoughts about p3s ending (and a lot of tears) but none of them a really relevant to this conversation 😔 but, chaos is represented here, by way of being the velvet room's opposition again, as Nyx, death, the inevitable end.

At first it may seem hard to make the argument that order and chaos are present at all in p3, but following our earlier logic, Nyx exists as a representative of chaos, despite essentially being the natural order. Nyx's return to earth was fated, it was always going to happen, in that sense despite embodying a type of order, Nyx is chaos.

The persona users, in contrast, are representative, as always, as order, but in essence what they are doing is fighting inevitability. They refuse to abide by what they are told is fated to happen, and they welcome the chaos that continued life will bring.

To be honest, I'm not sure how accurate or true any of this is, it was something I thought of, like, right before I went to sleep, but to wrap this up, I think its an interesting view and I fully acknowledge that I could be reaching here.

Also sorry I haven't really mentioned persona 1, its the game I'm least familiar with story-wise and to my understanding Philemon is much less present in the story compared to the p2 duology (as I said feel free to correct me), and if memory serves Nyarlathotep isn't in it much either (unless he's behind Kandori's plans and I just forgot somehow 😭 forgive me)

I do think you could make the argument here that all of the persona users' actions result in the overall maintenance of societal comfort and order, but I still find it interesting how such maintenance occurs through chaos as a catalyst.

so yeah... on a slightly more critical note, of all the advertising I've seen for it, not a single one specified what game it would be adapting, nor if it would even be a game at all, so I propose two theories!

the much more realistic theory. This will probably be a rehashed trinity soul situation (hence the joke 😭). By which I mean they will make an entirely new narrative with entirely new characters, and most likely fail to understand the complexities of the persona series worldbuilding 😔 though most likely it would probably be connected to p5, like trinity soul is to p3, in this scenario.

the much funner, much more copium theory. THEY'RE REMAKING THE OLDSONA GAMES AS A SHOW- think about it, they just said "'persona' series"..... hint, hint persona 1? perhaps?? plus- we already know Wada enjoyed the idea of a p1 and p2 remake.... plus the t-shirts on atlus' store.... plus it would be *a* way to resolve the lack of a calendar system in p1 and p2 (not a good one, but what can we expect really?)