Thank you for this @outlander-starz, I hope every...
to be fair, this year was probably the best comic con ive had in terms of how much i got lucky enough to experience :) but Friday was a difficult atmosphere. Thankfully I had my good OL friends with me for the panel and a few good seat mates in our row. I’ve been lucky enough to find some great friends through the Outlander community but that has come with a number of negative stories from past events. There are great OL fans out there you just gotta find them :)
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On the topic of Jamie, Geneva and hypotheses re: Jamie's agency and his body. What I come up against here is my difference of opinion with DG re: men and the "point of no return" in sex. She believes there is one. I disagree. Neither of us has a penis, so our opinions can only go so far here, but I believe Jamie made the choice (out of anger) to ignore Geneva's "no." I've read and understand all DG's arguments on this but our differing POVs on this mean I just don't buy it.
I agree with you @cabochonruby. Sometimes I think that DG is stuck back 40 years ago when men used to complain that if a woman “teased” them too much they would get “blue balls” which they played up dramatically to try to coerce young women to follow through with intercourse.
As long as they are not drunk or high, from what I know most men can stop themselves. I talk to young folks all the time about what happens in their love lives and plenty of nice guys stop when they are asked to do so–even at the point of penetration. But there are unfortunately many men who don’t choose to do so, with lots of negative consequences.Â
As I recall there is a love scene in one of the books where Claire makes a noise that Jamie interprets as pain, and he asked Claire if she wants him to stop. So he was clearly willing and able to stop if she had requested it. But he doesn’t stop with Geneva.Â
I think what is clouding all of this in our recent Voyager discussions of this topic is the fact that when I was answering a different question (regarding Jamie’s mind-body fragmentation when he was living in the cave) I was referring in particular to how his mind at times seems disconnected when he is killing/ hunting. This may be because, as you suggested cabochonruby, he is dissociating at those times.
The passage below the cut refers to the first time that Jamie kills someone in cold blood and it illustrates what I am talking about.
***Virgins Spoilers***
This is a passage from Virgins, when Jamie tries to stop a brute of a soldier from trying to rape one of the barmaids from a tavern:
His ears were ringing, he was vaguely aware of screaming and shouting, but it didn’t matter.
Something had come upon him and nothing mattered. Some small remnant of his consciousness registered surprise, and then that was gone, too. No pain, no thought. He was a red thing and while he saw things, faces, blood, bits of room, they didn’t matter. Blood took him, and when some sense of himself came back, he was kneeling astride the man, hands locked around the big man’s neck, hands throbbing with a pounding pulse, his or his victim’s, he couldn’t tell. [emphasis added]
Him. Him. He’d lost the man’s name. His eyes were bulging, the ragged mouth slobbered and gaped, and there was a small, sweet crack as something broke under Jamie’s thumbs. He squeezed with all he had, squeezed and squeezed and felt the huge body beneath him go strangely limp. He went on squeezing, couldn’t stop, until a hand seized him by the arm and shook him, hard.
“Stop,” a voice croaked, hot in his ear. “Jamie. Stop.”
He blinked up at the white, bony face, unable to put a name to it. Then drew breath— the first he could remember drawing for some time— and with it came a thick stink, blood and shit and reeking sweat, and he became suddenly aware of the horrible spongy feeling of the body he was sitting on. He scrambled awkwardly off, sprawling on the floor as his muscles spasmed and trembled.
–Diana Gabaldon (2013, p. 527, Kindle Edition).
***End Spoilers***
I think this “blood rage” that Jamie experiences is different however than what happens when he is having sex. I don’t think he is really out of control when that happens, despite what DG claims.
Still, whether it is killing or sex, there are times when Jamie’s impulse control is pretty weak, which is puzzling for a character who can often be patient, even-tempered, and thoughtful.
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Hey CO! I'm a little late but I wanted to publicly register my support for you and my disgust at how you've been treated. I'm glad you got an explanation for how you were doxxed -- I was scratching my head on that one. While I'm no hacker, I do know a bit about how online snooping is done, and I was seriously impressed that anyone could discern your identity. I've been following you for a year, and I'm not even sure what part of the States you're in! Whoever doxxed you was seriously motivated.
cabochonruby continued: Anyway, what I really wanted to say is that I have great respect for you and your approach. I've told you before that it means so much to have someone in fandom who refuses to use mental illness language to deride others. The shippers are too wrapped up in hating anyone who points out facts that disprove the ship that they're unable to see what a compassionate and empathetic person you are. Your students, and your fellow fans, are lucky to have you!
contemplatingoutlander responded: Thanks so much for your kind words @cabochonruby! They particularly mean a lot coming from you because I also respect you a great deal. I’ve been impressed by your courage in speaking up in a civil manner for what you believe in even if you have to disagree with others whom you respect. You have officially added to my overwhelming “verklemptitude” (I think I just coined a new word) during the last few days. I am lucky to know you and the other women in our little corner of the fandom. Have a great Friday!
