[Oh God! I'm good at asking technical stuff. But this question tilts towards the emotional side of knowing more about a relationship dynamics. Hope I make sense.]
Usually we see several tropes in a BL series. Like Friends to Lovers, Enemies to Lover, Strangers to Lovers, etc,...etc,...
There's also been several BL series were we've seen "Love-At-First-Sight", that happens with either the one who is going to pursue the relationship, OR from both the sides, although only one takes the lead.
Now,...I'm genuinely curious about this one particular trope, which I don't know how to categorize it correctly, although for the purpose of understanding things better, we may say, one of the partner is a "Tsundere".
Let me start with "SOTUS" The Series as an example.
Kong loves Arthit since day one. Well,...Arthit may or may not be in love, but he surely likes Kong, although he's a typical Tsundere, and his ego never allowed him to accept it. Fine! I agree, and understand that sometimes it takes time for some to firstly accept the fact that they have developed feelings for someone, let alone reciprocate that feeling. But for how long???
"Tsundere" as a term sounds can be romanticised in a story,...but in real life, I don't know how far it works. What I mean by that is,...for long and to what extent will only one person continue to put all their efforts in a relationship, while the other one just seem to sit and do nothing? And sometimes I mean absolutely nothing.
Be it a 'Tsundere Uke' or a 'Tsundere Seme',....I'm curious as to how far can one act cold and distant with the one they love just because they happen to be introvert or badly traumatised because of their past?
I'll take another example here,..."Oxygen" The Series had P'Phu and Kao,...where the Uke was clearly madly in love with the Seme,...but P'Phu until the end behaved like a total jerk,...not for once being man enough to reciprocate his feelings the way the other guy deserved. And that really irritated and disappointed me.
I want to understand the basic psychology of a character that behaves cold and distant, especially from the perspective of a Seme,...and how different is it in a homosexual love vs hetrosexual love?
Now,...for Arthit (Uke),...it was very challenging for him to come to terms with his own sexuality because of which he almost rejected Kong. And he needed several assurances from his friends and seniors before he acknowledged the fact that his feelings for a man isn't wrong. And that shit really isn't acceptable to me. For a grown-ass man,...why does he need to seek clarification from everyone to accept his own feelings?
And with P'Phu,...the shit is even bizarre. He knows Kao likes him a lot, because unlike him,...Kao is an open book. Yet,...he doesn't treat Kao right only because Kao happens to be exact opposite of him. And until the end,...Phu expects Kao to wait for him if his love is indeed true, which Kao readily accepts. I mean,...like WTF!
Now,....I'll mention about my most favourite couple FighterxTutor from "Why R U!?". Because although Fighter was head-over-heels for Tutor since the beginning,...it's not until Tutor makes him realize his own feelings, that Fighter finally confesses of like Tutor since day one and being sure of it. I mean,...WHY? Why did Fighter act distant with Tutor to the extent of teasing him all the time, while being sure of the fact that he loves him?
And the same BS happens with another of my favourite couple Phupha and Tian from "ATOTS". I understand that Chief.PhuPha is a very difficult personality to understand. And given the age, social, and perhaps cultural differences between PhuPha and Tian,...it must have been difficult for the Seme to accept his own feelings. But that does not mean he had to be so rude and distant with his own love?
And all these confuses me a lot.
I genuinely want to know,...
Why does it take so much of time for a "Tsundere Seme" to accept his own feelings, despite the fact that his love-interest has got nothing to down with his fear or insecurity?
In real life,...or even in fiction,...if one continues to pursue the "Tsundere" with an expectation that things will eventually turn in their favour, how long is too long?
Why does most of the "Tsundere" characters wait until the point where their lovers decide to leave them for good?
Is it justified on the part of the "Tsundere Seme" to let someone continue pursuing them,..until they overcome their deep-rooted fears, or unwarranted insecurities?
If the "Tsundere Seme" is sure of his own feelings,...what gives him the audacity to play with the feelings of someone that genuinely loves him?
Does the relationship dynamic change if the pursuer of a "Tsundere Seme" happens to be a "Power-Bottom Uke"?
You always asks such complicated questions. But this one seems to be coming from a place of pain, who hurt you and do I have to bitch slap someone?Ā
I have to mostly answer this from a narrative perspective because the complexities of a close-off person IRL are going to be entirely case specific. But I can try to explain a little so:
On an entirely personal level, I am the tsundere and always have been in all my relationships, but I am also 90% of the time much less damaged than the charming sunshines I inevitably end up with (and cannot seem to resist). So they are better equipped to answer the "why attracted to tsundere" IRL question. Not me.
Nevertheless, over the years and many MANY relationships, I will say what my lovers tend to like about me is my even keel predictable sternness. (See comments for more/alternate perspectives). IRL a grumpy pessimistic practical and dominant personality like mine is at least not erratic or changeable. Like the tsundere of narratives, we do tend to have cores of softness and once we love we are VERY loyal (so long as it's on our terms and we can control the situation) but unlike the tsundere of narratives we do not change. But we may relax for the right person.Ā
And if I were to give any piece of relationship advice it would be:Ā
please never enter a relationship thinking you can change (heal or save) the person (or persons). You may grow and shift as a couple/group (and most likely mellow) over the years, but even love can't change another person's core personality. That is the single biggest lie romance tells us. Right up there with the idea there there is a "one" out there.
And now, the questions: Tsundere in BL & IRLĀ
1. Why does it take so much of time for a "Tsundere Seme" to accept his own feelings, despite the fact that his love-interest has got nothing to do with his fear or insecurity?Ā
Because the tsundere character fears risk of exposer (of his own feelings) more than anything. It is the act of showing the soft underbelly that the tsundere so jealously guards.Ā
Itās not about admitting he has feelings for the other boy, it is more about admitting he has feelings AT ALL.Ā
A narrative tsundere is a tsundere because he is afraid of being hurt, and that hurt can only come if he opens himself up (to love, to the other person, to being gay, etc...) So he will try to stay closed off as long as possible.Ā
2. In real life,...or even in fiction,...if one continues to pursue the "Tsundere" with an expectation that things will eventually turn in their favour, how long is too long?
Until the tsundere sees you/their romantic partner as safe.Ā
IRL usually for this kind of personality itās about control and predictability. So they have to know and predict your actions and feelings, to classify you as safe and worthy of trust (AKA admitting to love).Ā
This can come off as manipulative (pressing your buttons with criticism or praise or compliments) or controlling (ordering for you at a restaurant) and then youāll have to decide, in turn, if thatās safe for you. One of the reasons I got into Ds is because of my need for control, and it codifies my inclinations towards this kind of behavior in a manner that feels safer for all parties.Ā
For a tsundere character everything is about acceptance and trust.Ā
IRL some closed-off lovers will NEVER open up. Even in fiction, Iām thinking about What Did You Eat Yesterday? or the dad in Restart After Come Back Home. These are kind of narratives about the tsundere not changing, but instead about their loved ones realizing that they simply express love differently (or not at all). There are quite a few Japanese dramas that deal with this idea. That you will simply have to live with this kind of personality never telling you they love you, merely showing you, in their very stunted way.Ā
But IRL many a relationship has broken up because the closed-off person just never could get over their own baggage enough to open up and trust. So if you are in a relationship with one of these (or trying for one) you have to know when to cut your losses. You need to decide what you need from them and whether they can actually give that to you (knowing they WILL NOT CHANGE). This is also about protecting yourself and getting out. And timing wise? Itās going to be all about your tolerance levels. But if youāre experiencing any form of abuse or gas lighting, get out now. Also talk to people: friends, other lovers, professionals. If you have a friend of a similar personality type in your life ask them for their thoughts, just donāt fall into the trap of endlessly analyzing the tsundereās motivation. Theyāre motivated by fear. You should protect yourself first, there are other fish in the sea. Or sky. (Just not that BL, please.)Ā
The non-tsundere will admit affection/kiss etc. at about 1/2 through the narrative but the tsundere wonāt come around until the last 1/4, in KBL usually not until the last ep.Ā
3. Why does most of the "Tsundere" characters wait until the point where their lovers decide to leave them for good?
4. Is it justified on the part of the "Tsundere Seme" to let someone continue pursuing them,..until they overcome their deep-rooted fears, or unwarranted insecurities?
I donāt know. Probubly not? But a narrative tsundere wouldnāt get into ANY kind of BL relationship if the other party didnāt do the pursuing (which is why tsundere is so often the uke character).Ā
So the whole story wouldnāt happen at all. So under the context of narrative... itās justified (because the narrative has to justify its own existence). However, if you, the watcher, feel manipulated? Then maybe not. Or maybe this just isnāt your archetype. Especially the seme version.Ā
5. If the "Tsundere Seme" is sure of his own feelings,...what gives him the audacity to play with the feelings of someone that genuinely loves him?Ā
I think most of the time he isnāt playing. Or heās doing the manipulative thing to see if he has the control he needs to open up. Like I said above, it isnāt about love, itās about trust (with a primary behavior motivation coming from fear). Heās waiting to see if he can TRUST the person, especially if heās paired with a sunshine or manic pixie dream archetype (the most difficult ones to trust - because charming is very dangerous and reads as suspicious, overly flirty, and disingenuous to tsundere). And trust takes a lot more time than love.Ā
6. Does the relationship dynamic change if the pursuer of a "Tsundere Seme" happens to be a "Power-Bottom Uke"?
Ooo, could we not use that term? I prefer self-actualized or aggressive or autonomous uke.Ā
Yes, the dynamic does change. If the uke is self aware in his pursuit (Nampu in Top Secret or In in UWMA) and more aggressive (less of a good boy like Chon in Tonhon Cholatee) then we, the audience, trust that uke to cut his losses and protect himself in a way we donāt trust the good/sweet boy.Ā
The relationship seems more fair and less abusive if an aggressive uke is in play. In other words, the nice-guy uke can be too much of a doormat with a tsundere seme and that reads very poorly to a modern audience, because we want to protect him (but thatās the semeās job).Ā
