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(Via Flickr) White lotus - Bahman Farzad

‘Just as dream and magic…’ (21) -  The substance of the world is unreal.

[From: “The Power of the Presence” vol I, Pg 256; Swami Madhavatirtha writes]

Q: Is the world real or false?

Maharshi: “So long as there is mind, the world is there. During sleep there is no mind, so the world is not there”.

Q: While I am sleeping, other people who are awake continue to see the world.

M: “The people who are awake at that time are part of the world [whose existence you are trying to prove], so what they say cannot be taken as a piece of admissible evidence. At that time [when you were asleep] it [first] has to be proved whether or not other people exist. That which has to be proved cannot be taken for granted as existent. Their existence has to be proved independently, but such proof cannot be found. Those who are awake have minds that are moving; that is why they see the world. So, the world exists in relation to the mind. It is not a thing independent and existing by itself.”

Q: What is the relationship between Maya, the power that makes us take the world to be real, and Atman, the reality itself?

M: A man gets married in a dream and there the groom is real but the wife is false. And when he wakes up he is the same man as before. Similarly, the real Atman always remains as it is. It does not get affected or contaminated by Maya. It does not marry either Maya or Anatma [the not-Self] because it is complete, whereas the substance of the world is unreal. The individual ‘I’ is like the dream state of the man. When it begins to arise, the mind and the sense organs begin to operate. When it goes, they also go away. The root of all perceived material things is this ‘I’. Aham, ‘I’, is real, but ahamkara, the ego ‘I’, is false.

Midday at Sri Ramanasramam. Arunachala is silent, behind it all - By Richard Clarke

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‘Just as dream and magic…’ (13)

[From: “Day by Day”, Pg 102 (26.1.1946 afternoon); Devaraja Mudaliar had the pamphlet on Madhva’s Philosophy, given to Sri Bhagavan by a visitor, in his hands. He writes]

I said, “… But I find that this author also asks, as I sometimes used to feel, ‘Why should we refuse to treat anything as real unless it exists always?’ Bhagavan said, “How can anything be said to be real which is only a passing show?” Balaram also quoted Bhagavad Gita which says, “That which exists never ceases to exist. That which does not exist (at any time) has no existence.”

At 4 PM starts the afternoon reading. This is done in the front of the Samadhi Hall. - Photo By Richard Clarke

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[From: “Maharshi’s Gospel”, Pg 83]

“For the Jnani all the three states are equally unreal. But the ajnani is unable to comprehend this, because for him the standard of reality is the waking state, whereas for the Jnani the standard of reality is Reality itself.”

About a dozen people listen to readings of works by or about Ramana. - Photo By Richard Clarke

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[From: “The Power of the Presence” vol I, by David Godman, Pg 20; Sri Bhagavan told Rangan]

“… But whichever world appears to you, that world will appear to be true and real.”

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‘Just as dream and magic…’ (19) - (Un)reality of the world.

[From: “Mountain Path”, July 1981, Pg 154; from “Conversations with Bhagavan” by Swami Madhavatirtha, extracts from the text - on persistent questioning of Shri Bhagavan on the (un)reality of the world; Also in “Surpassing Love & Grace”, Pg 142]

Bhagavan: It is not necessary to think of the view of other seers. Those others are only in your imagination. Know the one seer and all will be well. In a dream, many are seen, but they are all in the imagination of the one seer. When you wake up from the dream, the dream and those seen in the dream will take care of their own prarabdha.

Q: Is it a fact that dreams arise because of impressions received during the waking state?

B: No, it is not true. In your dream, you see many new things and many new people whom you have never seen before in your waking state. You may even see a second dream within the dream. After waking up from the second dream, you feel that you have woken up, but that is the waking state of the first dream. In the same way, man wakes up daily, but it is not to a real waking state.

Q: Why does the waking state look so real?

B: We see so much on the cinema screen, but it is not real; nothing is real there except the screen. In the same way, in the waking state, there is nothing but Adhisthana. Jagrat-prama (knowledge of the world) is the prama of jagrat-pramata (knowledge of the knower of the world). Both go away in sleep.

Q: Why do we see such permanency and constancy in the world?

B: It is seen on account of wrong ideas. When someone says that he took a bath in the same river twice, he is wrong because when he bathed for the second time the river was not the same as it was when he bathed for the first time. On seeing the brightness of a flame, a man says that he sees the same flame, but this flame is changing every moment. The waking state is like this. The stationary appearance is an error of perception.

Q: Whose is the error?

B: Pramata (the knower)

Q: How did the knower come?

B: On account of the error of perception. In fact, the knower and his misperceptions appear simultaneously, and when knowledge of the Self is obtained, they disappear simultaneously. Just as in a dream, a false knower, knowledge and known rise up, in the waking state, the same process operates. In both states, on knowing this ‘I’, you know everything, and nothing remains to be known. In deep sleep knower, knowledge and known are absent; in the same way, at the time of experiencing the true ‘I’, they will not exist. Whatever you see happening in the waking state happens only to the knower, and since the knower is unreal, nothing in fact ever happens.

Q: After waking from sleep, why does the world of the previous day appear the same?

B: The world seen on the previous day was not real. It was the knowledge of an unreal knower; similarly, the world of the next day is also the knowledge of an unreal knower. Truly there is no real world. What appears separate from us is called by us “the world”. It appears separate to us due to ego-consciousness (ahamkara). When ahamkara goes there is nothing separate and then there is no world. Time also arises from pramata (the knower). Because pramata is not real, time also is not real.

— Source: Blog “You have been told; why have you not realized?” - http://bhagavan-sri-ramana-maharshi.blogspot.pt/2013/02/just-as-dream-and-magic.html

Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi  [From: “Talks”, Pg 153; Talk No. 177, to Major Chadwick  (pdf) ] 

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‘Just as dream and magic…’ (23)

Don’t you sometimes feel that the world you live in and the thing that is happening is unreal?

[From: “Surpassing Love & Grace” [1], Pg 149; “Dreams” (extracts from), Major Chadwick writes]

“But Bhagavan,” I would repeat, “dreams are disconnected, while the waking experience goes on from where it let off and is admitted by all to be more or less continuous.”

“Do you say that in your dreams?” Bhagavan would ask. “They seemed perfectly consistent and real to you then. It is only now, in your waking state that you question the reality of the experience. This is not logical.”

Bhagavan refused to see the least difference between the two states, and in this, he agreed with all the great Advaitic Seers. Some have questioned if Sankara did not draw a line of difference between these two states, but Bhagavan has persistently denied it. Sankara did it apparently only for the purpose of clearer exposition, he would explain. The answer I received was always the same, however I tried to twist my questions.  

“Put your doubts when in the dream state itself. You do not question the waking state when you are awake. You accept it in the same way you accept your dreams. Go beyond both states, all three states including deep sleep, and study them from that point of view. You now study one limitation from the point of view of another limitation. Could anything be more absurd? Go beyond all limitation, then come here with the problem.”

But in spite of this, doubt still remained. I somehow felt that at the time of dreaming, there was something unreal in it, not always of course, but just glimpses now and then.

“Doesn’t that ever happen to you in your waking state too?” Bhagavan queried. “Don’t you sometimes feel that the world you live in and the thing that is happening is unreal?”

— Source: Blog “You have been told; why have you not realized?” - http://bhagavan-sri-ramana-maharshi.blogspot.pt/2013/02/just-as-dream-and-magic.html 

Sri Ramanasramam, de Svetlana Meritt

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‘Assim como sonho e magia…’ (13)

[De: “Dia a Dia”, pág 102 (26.1.1946 à tarde); Devaraja Mudaliar tinha nas suas mãos o folheto sobre a Filosofia de Madhva, dado a Sri Bhagavan por um visitante. Ele escreve]

Eu disse: “… Mas acho que esse autor também pergunta, como eu às vezes costumava sentir, "Por que devemos recusar-nos a considerar qualquer coisa como real a menos que exista sempre?" Bhagavan disse: “Como se pode dizer que alguma coisa é real se é apenas um espectáculo passageiro?” Balaram também citou a Bhagavad Gita, que diz: “Aquilo que existe nunca deixa de existir. Aquilo que não existe (em algum momento) não tem existência.

Às 16h00 começa a leitura da tarde. Isso é feito na frente do Samadhi Hall. Cerca de uma dúzia de pessoas ouve leituras de obras de Ramana ou sobre ele. - Foto de Richard Clarke, no Artigo: O meio do dia em Ramanasramam.

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[De: "O Evangelho de Maharshi", pág. 83]

“Para o Jnani, todos os três estados são igualmente irreais. Mas o ajnani é incapaz de compreender isso, porque para ele o padrão da realidade é o estado de vigília, enquanto para o Jnani o padrão da realidade é a própria Realidade”.

V.S. Ramanan, Sundaram, o presidente do ashram, geralmente faz a leitura. Às vezes ele fala sobre as suas próprias lembranças dos dias com Sri Bhagavan. -  Foto de Richard Clarke, no Artigo: O meio do dia em Ramanasramam.

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[De: "O Poder da Presença" vol I, de David Godman, Pág 20; Sri Bhagavan disse a Rangan]

“… Mas, qualquer que seja o mundo que lhe apareça, esse mundo parecerá verdadeiro e real”.

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“Who is the seer?” When I sought within, I watched what survived the disappearance of the seer. (*) No thought arose to say, ‘I saw’, how then could the thought ‘I did not see’ arise? Who has the power to convey this in words, when even Thou (appearing as Dakshinamurty) couldst do so in ancient days only by silence? Only to convey by silence Thy (transcendent) state Thou standest as a Hill, shining from heaven to earth.

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~ Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi    Eight Stanzas To Sri Arunachala, Sri Arunachala Ashtakam, V. 2  (pdf +  mp3)

(*)  That is, the Self.

... the first half of this verse is one of the most enigmatic compositions of Sri Bhagavan’s... 

[From: “Mountain Path”, Jan 1966, Pg 101; “Divine Glimpses”, ‘Vishnu’ writes]