#3630

Heroic Players can die fighting 'corrupt adversaries', whereas Just Players can be 'corrupted', and 'slain by a hero'. There's a clear dichotomy here, wherein 'corrupt' God Tiers are particularly vulnerable to self-sacrificing God Tiers, and vice-versa.

I like it. It's a very mythological way for immortality to work, and it gels well with Sburb's fantasy narrative. Rose's alliance with the Horrorterrors probably marks her as corrupted, so God Tier ascension probably wouldn't grant her true immortality.

The concept is fascinatingly ambiguous, too. Morality is a controversial subject at the best of times, and allowing Sburb to judge the ethics of a Player's actions could get very tricky, very fast. There's no doubt in my mind that Sburb and I disagree vehemently about what constitutes a just cause, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

TT: Which sort of death will you have when I destroy the sun? Neither. I'm not a god. I'm a guardian, a servant, and a weapon. I have power and knowledge far surpassing a god. But I am not one.

First Guardians are considered far more powerful than God Tiers, then. Aradia was able to get the drop on Jack, but Jack's really just a Kernelsprite imitation of a First Guardian. Scratch is far more threatening, especially since his brain isn't scrambled by dog memories.

...that said, his brain might be a little scrambled by whatever was in that HONK code. Who knows what Alt-Gamzee was cooking there.

My master can't enter this universe until I am killed. […] TT: That almost sounds like martyrdom. Are you sure it won't be a hero's death? Quite sure. My master is a very evil man. TT: Who is he? I won't tell you his name. But he goes by the title, Lord English.

About bloody time. This guy’s been sneaking around the back of the story for over two thousand pages, and it sounds like we're finally going to shed some light on this mysterious adversary.

But you must decide which objective is more important. You may decide to attempt to destroy the sun and end my life. This will neutralize Jack, who is also much more powerful and dangerous than myself by virtue of the ring he wears in addition to drawing energy from the same sun as I. He poses a significant threat to reality.

I'm still skeptical about this assertion. What could Jack's other kernels possibly offer that his First Guardian powers don't render obsolete?

Anyway - even if Jack does have better numbers, Scratch is still far more dangerous by virtue of the mind he wields.

TT: But in the process of killing him and you, I release your master, who is just as deadly? He's more deadly. But the danger he poses is sanctioned by paradox space. It is a known quantity. His very existence in a universe will mean it will inevitably be torn apart. But there are rules to his entry, and his grim procession through paradox space is rather orderly. The present equilibrium has accounted for him, and will continue to.

I did wonder if English was part of Paradox Space's natural ecosystem, charged with destroying old universes in much the same way Sburb destroys planets.

Even if he is part of Skaia's ineffable plan, I don't think that should stop us from ending his sorry ass. We might not understand English's motivations, but we do know that his plans destroy anyone unfortunate enough share his plane of reality, and countless lives have already been ruined in Scratch’s quest to bring him out. I don't really care if Paradox Space sanctions his actions - he needs to be taken down, and if that upsets the natural order, then it's time for a new natural order.

Besides, we probably don't even need to destroy the Sun to stop Jack. We have plenty of other angles to work, from exploiting his psychological weaknesses to negotiating with his slightly more reasonable deputy. Additionally, Jadesprite won't be out of action forever, and Jack can't even harm Jadesprite, due to the aforementioned psychological weaknesses. Even if she's inherited Bec's 'don't fight Agents' programing, that doesn't stop her from simply stealing his Ring. She's done it before.

Jack however is a loose cannon. He will not stop until he destroys everything he encounters.

Yeah - to be honest, Scratch, I'm starting to think you're laying it on a little thick, here. Is Jack really the omniversal 'threat to reality' that you're making him out to be?

Let's not get it twisted - I have no trouble believing that he's dangerous to individual sessions. But does he really have the juice to wreak cosmic destruction on the scale of Lord English? His battery is only as strong as a couple of universes, and he has to share it with every other First Guardian in the cosmos.

Plus, the kids can't be the only Players in the multiverse to accidently prototype a First Guardian. I'm sure it's rare, but it can't be once-in-all-the-worlds rare. There should be plenty of other rogue First Guardians floating around Paradox Space - and if they're all enormous threats to reality, then reality should already have been destroyed.

A classic perk of godhood - and one I considered to be an Ultimate Reward candidate, back in Act 4.

Hopefully it's a flavor of immortality that still lets you age. If Vriska's to be believed, then Sburb wants to be played by adolescents - but they don't need to be kids forever, do they?

TT: Are you saying I will? No. […] TT: Maybe this question will suit you better. TT: Is it probable? That's a strange question to ask someone who is omniscient and therefore knows outcomes with one hundred percent certainty. […] You have exactly a fifty percent chance of ascending to the god tier.

A non-binary probability? From an omniscient being?

That doesn't... that makes no....

Alright, screw it. I'll nerd-snipe myself on this one.

First of all - is Scratch taking doomed timelines into account? Because one way to interpret this statement is that exactly 50% of all timelines will feature Rose's God Tier ascension. If so, this is a functionally useless statement, as we don't know which category the Alpha Timeline falls into.

Another, more interesting interpretation arises if we assume Scratch is only referring to the Alpha Timeline - or, more accurately, the Alpha Timelines.

The whole point of the Scratch is to create another instance of the kids' session - one which can't be doomed, because that would render the whole endeavor pointless. Therefore, there's about to be a second non-doomed timeline in play, with a second Rose Lalonde.

If there are two Alpha Roses, and if 'Alpha Rose' has a 50% chance of ascending, then it sounds like only one Rose will ascend. Either our Rose will become a god, or the next Rose will.

Because, much like the decisions you must face to complete your dual suicide missions, you have two ways of achieving godhood to choose from. […] TT: By dying on the Quest Bed on my planet, and some other way? Yes. TT: Is there another Quest Bed somewhere? Yes. Good guess, Seer.

Aradia’s Time Slab, in Derse, functioned as a backup Quest Cocoon. Her ascension raised a lot of questions, and hopefully we're about to get some answers.

Notably, the Time Slab was able to ascend Aradia's dream self, long after her original body was lost. Can it only solo-ascend dream selves, or could Jade use one to ascend without Jadesprite? Could Rose use one, even after her dream self is consumed by the Tumor?

Also, why is this mechanic hidden from the Players? Is it even an intended feature of the game? I have to assume you're not supposed to learn about it from a corrupted First Guardian. The trolls completed the entire game, and none of them seemed aware of it - so when do you learn about it? What's it for?

TT: Where? What difference does it make? You already know where the first one is. You have the choice to go there right now and take your own life.

You have the choice, but it’s obviously not that simple.