Anon: a valid reason for why it makes no sense that sns is intentional
Typing out long paragraphs to prove a point isn't going to suddenly make it valid. I believe anon is right. The misogyny in Naruto does a lot to highlight the relationship between the males. Different aspects of a piece of media are bound to influence each other. Kishimoto wrote Naruto to be similar to a much intense version of a rival-like relationship in his own life. He also acts as if women are part of some foreign species, leading him to say "idk how to write women" as justification for ruining all the arcs of females. Queer baiting is a thing. These things collectively contribute to make Sns so obvious.
So I'm sorry to break it to you but I can't, in a million years, believe that this cishet, married man sat down and intentionally wrote a 700 chapter gay romance. And yes, some pieces of media are unintentional. You just make this piece of art and not everyone will interpret it the same way. Anyone can show up and say "character A looks beautiful. This is an intentional thing done by the artist" when the artist drew character A to look average to their eyes. Kishi does realize that sns must look so fucking romantic to some ppl and he allows us to see it the way we want.
That being said, i don't see the point in arguing whether kishi intended to write homosexual characters or not. Does saying that it was intentional make you feel better about yourself /the ship?? Does that help you glorify your favourite author of all time?? Are you going to sit here and defend this middle aged man who has literally moved on with his life, for something he wrote eons ago?? Go ahead ig. If you really want to live like that. You should go touch some grass.
Ugh, I go out for one night of drinking and dancing and this is what I come home to.
Look sweetheart. You ARE biased. And HOMOPHOBIC. And quite ignorant, I must say.
Also why are you so salty about my long paragraphs, seeing you didn't actually counter my arguments but only reiterated the earlier ask which isn't a proof of anything? π
Bubbla, it's not about writing LONG paragraphs that makes my answer valid. It's my reasoning. Which you obviously conveniently missed and came and ranted in the ask section, like some seven year old stubborn child. Next time, I won't write things that I want to say, (and I usually do have a lot to say because Kishi gives me a lot to think about) but just telepath it to my readers. Is that what you want hon?
And you know where I am coming from?? I work in the industry. I know how it works from experience. I also know because I am in the habit of watching films from all over the world since I was four. I make time to actually read about storytelling. I am a cinephile. A lot of fans, such as yourself, are ignorant about how things are done in the actual world. Like I am sorry but you obviously don't know jackshit.
I socialize with a lot of writers, some of them are national and international award winning film makers and I like to pick their brains, because of my own interests. One of them recently got nominated for an Oscar. I would have shared the link had I not been mindful about my anonymity. That's a privilege only special people get (you know who you are). Am I flexing? Let me know when your friend gets nominated for an Oscar, even though I think Murican film awards are quite overhyped, but it's still a major recognition. What I am trying to tell you is that I am coming from a solid background and I give reasoning for it. And I don't see actual counterpoints from you, just a sad little rehash of what the other anon said, also as ignorant.
Anyway, you know why I don't think Kishi's writing is unintentional? The whole reason why Kishi thought it was important to talk about - are they friends? Or brothers? Or More? points to the FACT that he wanted to say something with it. That their true feelings for each other is at the very least, suspect. If they aren't brothers, since Naruto does finally admit he doesn't think Sasuke is his brother when talking to Hagoromo, and if they aren't just friends, as Naruto finally admits in chapter 698, that he doesn't really know how to explain it, what else could it be?? And how is it that I have seen this trope so many times in other gay media, very much derived from personal stories of gay film makers?
Why would Kishi tell the story this way when he makes Sasuke ask Naruto over and over again, to define the relationship, and Naruto keeps saying, because you are my 'friend'? Why waste so much precious panel space when he could have added more fight scenes that otakus just eat up with both hands? Have you asked yourself these questions? Do you even think about writer's intent? Do you even use your head while consuming media?
I have the advantage of having watched I don't know, around fifty films about gay coming of age stories, and talking to actual gay people to compare if their stories or experiences were similar.
The writer's intention says a lot. I get that most fans don't understand the method of writing a story, but to think it's accidental is plain denial mixed with ignorance.
Kishimoto intended to tell a gay love story. Otherwise he wouldn't have told the story in this manner. No way. He deliberately moulded the story that forces the protagonist, who is closeted gay, to answer why he cares about Sasuke so much, and what his feelings for Sasuke mean. Why would there be this intent to define this relationship, had they not been purposely written as two boys in love with each other? And why are we seeing the same dynamic in Boruto which isn't even about these two? Yeah, sure, Kishimoto has apparently moved on but he is still continuing the same dynamic in Boruto, nice, heh.
Why aren't they close to their wives? Why don't they even talk to them, much less spend time with them? But they always have time for each other? They smile for each other and look alive and happy when otherwise they look so dull? Why is Sasuke's marriage such a sham? Why doesn't he kiss or visit his own wife? Why does Kishimoto show Boruto think of his mother when Sarada talks about bento in Gaiden but when she gives it to Naruto in the next chapter, Naruto thinks of Sasuke looking at the bento and not his OWN wife when she is the one who regularly makes it for him?
Do you really not see writer's intent? What is Kishi trying to say here, in a genre where he can't explicitly say it, but has other means that he uses so blatantly? Before you ask me questions, ask them to yourself. If you then have doubts, then maybe come to me. Or don't. I have a huge backlog anyway.
How easily you sweep significant moments under the rug without asking yourself why the writer wrote it this way if he didn't want to say something with it? Writers use everything in their toolboxes to tell their story. Narrative, dialogues, characters, visual imagery, which in Naruto's case, all points to a deliberate intention. You think it all happens in isolation? No thought required?? Maybe you don't do things that way, but don't expect everyone else to be as simple minded as you. I can agree that one can be susceptible to interpreting a piece of art as not intended by the creator. I remember once, when I was working in an art gallery, and admiring a painting. So this old man, a collector stood alongside me, also looking at the painting, and asked me what I saw in it. And I told him. He had a different idea, and he got offended by my reading of it, much to my amusement. But you see, it was abstract art. I can look at a Jackson Pollock painting and say it's about a murder scene. You could say it's about rains. That's the fun about abstract art. But there's nothing abstract about Naruto. If anything, it's too expositional, like any other shounen manga. Love, know your genres. Don't think you can get away with comparing apples and oranges, it's such an obvious ploy.
Heh, you don't have to break anything to me anon. I know it is possible to tell a story that accidentally looks gay. An example? You couldn't give me one in your rant, even though you apparently believe it, heh. No worries. I will give you an example.
If you have seen that film, then you know what I am talking about. A lot of people who thought it was about mach speed and testosterone and male ambition were surprised to see how gay it looked and sounded.
You think people aren't aware of it? Wrong.
This is a clip from a dramedy film called 'Sleep with me' and this is one of Quentin Tarantino's acting roles. Now he is being funny here, and even though he makes a lot of sense, it's meant for comedy, that's the whole point of this scene in the film. It is funny. BUT. There is a difference. The difference is TROPES. Writing your script with a line or two that sounds like a character is saying superficial funny gay shit, is different from actually taking those tropes and embedding them in your narrative. The other reason why Top Gun sounds accidentally gay, and is not actually gay, is because otherwise Tom Cruise would never have signed the film, that man is probably gay himself and is notoriously homophobic, and he would sue anyone's ass who as much as breathes about his doubtful sexuality. And secondly, the writer admitted that he didn't write it that way, but he could see how it could be interpreted as gay. But these moments are only for laughs, totally circumstantial and don't add ANYTHING to the actual narrative.
Naruto's story on the other hand is GUIDED by it. Naruto does everything to get close to Sasuke, to understand him, to make him trust him. Kishimoto uses a lot of tropes well explored in global gay media to tell their love story. I have made comparisons with actual films, look for them here and here. I am sorry (not) to say your understanding of narrative is ridiculously poor.
As for your argument that cishet man like Kishimoto can't write gay romance, hahaha, is laughable. Kinda shows how much you really don't know about shit.
Abdellatif Kechiche is a cishet man. And he made 'Blue is the warmest colour' which is about a lesbian coming of age story. So what does that tell you, that he is actually a closeted lesbian??? Hahaha.
Like I said, I don't want to speculate on Kishi's sexuality. Maybe he is closeted, maybe he is bi, maybe he is cishet, we don't know. And I don't care, I am here for the story, not his personal life as it has no relevance in my consumption and understanding of the story itself. Why did he tell a gay love story? Because he wanted to. Just like Kechiche wanted to.
Your arguments are so bizarre.
You obviously don't know what queer baiting is. There's a difference between dangling a carrot knowing it won't work out in the story that way and basing your entire story on the idea. Kishimoto wrote his central narrative around their relationship. Where he wrote such romantic dialogues for them which would make even Shakespeare blush. You think it's unintentional? Wow. Heheh. You are such a pet, I wana pull your cheeks.
So this art drawn by my man Kishimoto where he has specifically drawn Sasuke's head over Naruto's crotch is accidental? Oh yes, he must not have thought about it all, how it would look to audience, or what it would indicate because he is an idiot who has only been writing and drawing since he was three. SO mUcH AcCiDenTaL.....
No no, Kishi is innocent, he isn't being naughty at all. Sasuke just happens to be looking at Naruto with that expression and that bottle in his mouth, Kishi is not being suggestive at all.
Yes, I know queer baiting is a thing. Apparently, you don't know what it means. You know what is queerbaiting? Ops and eds of Naruto is queerbaiting, such as Blue Bird, Diver, Broken Youth etc. Why? Because the producers knew it ain't never gonna happen. Kishimoto didn't write the lyrics or create the visuals of the ops and eds. But the studio still commisioned super romantic, explicitly so, ops and eds exclusively for the two of them. To attract a certain subset of audience and it did get traction because it was already established in the story and appealed to audiences it was targeted at. The studio was aware of how it looked to audience. But it's not the kind of genre where you can write it explicitly in the actual story.
As for Kishimoto being misogynistic, yes he is. But that still has nothing to do with Naruto and Sasuke's purposeful love. Is it possible to create homosexual media without or with minimal female interaction with the male leads? Absolutely. 'Hawaii' by Marco Berger has close to no female representation in it, but it's about two gay men realizing their love for each other. Same goes for 'Tropical Malady' by Apichatpong Weerasethakul. 'Happy together' by Wong Kar Wai. Minimal, completely absent or entirely irrelevant female representation. Does that invalidate their own story? No. Obviously.
The reason why I think you are homophobic is because when you trivialize, and appropriate gay content in the name of heteronomativity, you are being homophobic, whether you think of it as such or not. It's like saying - Oh I don't care if you are gay, just keep it away from me.
A person like, oh I don't know, You, would think - hmm that makes sense. He at least isn't opposing gay relationships.
But more insightful people would say - nah, that's homophobic.
Your understanding of homophobia is quite shallow, I must say. Kishi's intent is so clear, that you really don't have to be a cinephile to get it. There are many other fans who got it in their first read or watch, just through an unbiased and unprejudiced stance. You don't even have to be exceptionally smart. You just have to avail yourself to the story, to let it immerse you, without coloured and unobjective lenses. Which is honestly the only right way to watch or read anything. Homophobia is such an ingrained mentality, quite like misogyny, that it shows in what you say and how you react to certain things, and it doesn't have to be overt. Almost all the - they are just friends, or they are brothers, or it is just accidental arguments clearly stem from heteronomativity and homophobia because it is such an ingrained response, that one isn't even aware sometimes that they are doing it. People often lack insight into themselves and the majority of Naruto fandom is emotionally young or belong to an age group that is inexperienced in both life and consuming media. Sometimes I suspect most of them haven't seen anything outside of Shounen or shoujo or anime.
And I will tell you something else. People who are in my film circles, I made a couple of them watch Naruto. I didn't say anything about it being gay or whatever, I said nothing. They also understand visual language and narrative like I do. And like I had suspected, they also came out knowing it was a gay love story. Coincidence?? I don't think so. You just gotta be honest with yourself, it's just so much more relieving. Why carry the burden of lying to ourselves? It's not worth it. If you still don't understand what I mean, maybe you will, when you grow up. Not just in terms of age, but experience and understanding.
Is this enough grass touching for you?? π
So the next time you feel like flaunting your ignorance in my face so confidently, just Don't. I know my shit. And I can prove it, like I do on my blog, with panel by panel analysis, and comparisons with other media. I would have written a more scathing answer to your boldly misplaced ask, but you are lucky I have a hangover today.
Your anonymity might have saved you from public humiliation but at least one person would know that you were dissed. YOURSELF. If you bother to read this, most ignorant people don't when presented with actual arguments and evidence, and I have a feeling you will prove me right.
But anyway, kindly keep away from my ask box if you can't be nice, because I am not nice to people who aren't nice themselves. I am also not humble and I don't care, it's bad enough I live in a world where people pride themselves for their willful ignorance, but to have to deal with them when all they bring to the table is stupidity and a misplaced confidence unsubstantiated with actual evidence or information, and then harass me for it on my platform, I don't have the patience for that kinda shit.
If you want, you can subscribe to my blog and educate yourself, looks like you really need it. Just refrain from being impolite.
