The Rose of Versailles Library

From Animage April 1980

After The Rose of Versailles film came out, little girls who couldn't read subtitles were saying "please make it into an anime..."

AM: I’d like to start off by asking about the process that led up to The Rose of Versailles being made into an anime.

Ikeda: Last year, I thought I’d like to make The Rose of Versailles into a movie, so I entrusted everything to producer Mataichiro Yamamoto. However at the time, I wasn't considering an anime. I had also turned down all the previous offers.

AM: Why was that?

Ikeda: There was a fierce amount of opposition saying, “Don’t make it into a movie or anime, it would ruin the readers’ image”

AM: So despite opposition you went ahead with the anime?

Ikeda: It ended up being made into a movie, didn’t it? After that, requests for an anime increased, little girls around kindergarten age couldn’t read my original work or the movie subtitles. So I began to feel that I wanted younger children to be able to watch it.

AM: So you consider the main audience of the anime The Rose of Versailles to be children from around kindergarten age to around third grade in elementary school?

Ikeda: Yes. I believe so, due to the time slot. If you look at the sponsor’s advertised products they’re things like little purses and dolls, you can tell by that.

AM: I see. Once the anime was decided and production began, how were you involved during that time?

Ikeda: I was not involved at all. I was not involved in the planning stage, they sent me the scripts but I didn’t really read them. I think an anime means that a completely new work is being born. So I think it’s best just to look forward to that.

My work is becoming an anime. This is not something that happens often in one's life. I think I am very fortunate...

AM: I'd like to ask what your impression of the anime is, based on what you've watched...

Ikeda: Every week I record it and watch it with my assistants. If I am working, I will take a short break. So, I am just jumping on the bandwagon and watching for the fun of it.

AM: Just following the trends?

Ikeda: Yes. For instance, the anime version of Girodelle is very cool and handsome. In the first episode he duels Oscar for the position of commander, right!?! That scene was very intense. I thought "Wow, he looks so grown up! He looks so cool, with his hair’s blowing in the wind…He looks much cooler the the original (laughs)"

AM: Was there anything else that stood out like "Wow!"?

Ikeda: So far, more than any specific scene, it is the gorgeous backgrounds that leave the greatest impression on me. Things like the buildings in the background.

Back when I was drawing The Rose of Versailles, I had not been to the Palace of Versailles. I was drawing by looking at photographs...and even those reference materials were not sufficient...This time they also have the film The Rose of Versailles to refer to, and I think the backgrounds are very well developed.

AM: It is indeed very detailed.

Ikeda: It really is. My grandmother watches it too but she thinks the backgrounds are real. Like the Palace of Versailles. She is getting old, her eyesight probably isn't what it used to be (laughs).

AM: In episode 8 there is a scene at the Jarjayes mansion with the sunrise, it was very beautiful, the colors changing to show the passage of time...

Ikeda: Yes, it was. I don't really understand the technical aspects, but I was moved and thought "very beautiful!!"

AM: I see. So, there are some differences in the story and setting, between the original work and the anime.

Ikeda: The introduction of episode 1 was different, wasn't it? As for myself, I thought I had put equal effort into all four of them. Antoinette, Fersen, Oscar, and André. However originally what I wanted to depict the most was Marie Antoinette’s life.

AM: Oh, is that so?

Ikeda: Correct. That is why the beginning of the original story is about Antoinette. I had intended for Oscar to be a supporting character. The thing is, historical figures are surprisingly hard to move around a story. So inevitably, I became more invested in and favored the fictional character, Oscar.

AM: And for creating interesting drama too...

Ikeda: That's right. Besides with anime, the audience consists of younger children, it is much easier for them to follow the story if you establish early on who the protagonist and heroine is. So I think Episode 1 was fine. It was very straightforward...

AM: Is there anything else that stood out to you that is different from the original, what have you noticed?

Ikeda: The Duke of Orleans appearing as a villain from the beginning. In my version he was more the type of person who schemes behind the scenes...I think, because of the same reason as before, the viewers' ages being much younger, It is better this way. It helps make the story simple and clear, if we know that the Duke of Orleans is a bad or good person.

AM: So you and the production staff have a mutual understanding.

Ikeda: That's right. It's not as though I put in any specific requests.

AM: How do you think the main themes are being handled?

Ikeda: As I said before, one of the things I wanted to portray in this work was the life of Marie Antoinette. And then there is Oscar's way of life. The story of a woman who is forced to live as a man, she lives a life no one else can, and in the end accepts it and chooses that way of life for herself....

AM: Is this depicted in the anime?

Ikeda: Not yet, it is still a work in progress....Though, as long as Mr. Yamamoto is the producer, I think it will be fine.

AM: Are you worried that "Oscar's way of life as a woman" may be too difficult for kindergarten and elementary-school children?

Ikeda: I think there can be certain limits due to age, but it is all dependent on the way it is portrayed. When I was in middle school, I heard an interview with an unmarried twenty year old female professor. At the end they asked her "do you have plans to get married" and she said "Huh? Well no". She answered "I had forgotten about that".

I was moved at that moment, to think that there are careers for women out there that are fulfilling enough to make them forget about marriage. I thought that, even though I was still a child.

They have reproduced my clumsy characters from early serialization, in great detail. It is very embarrassing.

AM: What do you think of the character design?

Ikeda: I think they are quite close to the original. Personally, I really don't like the drawings I did right after serialization began. I was not very good. These too have been reproduced to look like my originals, and it is very embarrassing, I don't like it....

AM: Not good?

Ikeda: Yes, how Oscar and Andre look chubby when they are young. And as they get older their cheeks start to hollow out. You know, that was not something I did intentionally. Even the early round faced Oscar, I was trying to draw her as cool and mature looking as she is just before her death. But my drawing skills were poor....and I don't want to see those old drawings again...

I have known of Tarō Shigaki since he was young, but I didn't know he was so talented.

AM: What do you think of the voice cast?

Ikeda: Fersen is voiced by Nachi Nozawa, right? His character is supposed to be 18 years old, just like Oscar, his voice really makes you feel the age difference. He sounds more like someone who is around 32 or 33. But I think his personality suits the role very well. I feel that he talks a little fast though.

AM: What do you think of Reiko Tajima in the role of Oscar?

Ikeda: Right now she is ok, but I am worried about what will happen down the road. Same with Antoinette. Miyuki Ueda's voice suits the young Antoinette. But I don't know how her voice will work for her when she is in her 30s, I am a little concerned about that.

AM: I understand.

Ikeda: I knew that Taro Shigaki, who plays André, had been on TV since he was young, but I had no idea he was so talented. I had thought of him as the type of actor who was known for his looks rather than his acting. So I thought of acting with dialogue only....but I ended up being surprised at how good he was (laughs).

AM: What about the narrator?

Ikeda: First of all, it really makes an impact. For younger children, I wonder if that voice will be a little scary though.

AM: I see.

Osamu Tezuka said, “Animation is great.” He said "you should make one". Maybe I should become an apprentice at Tezuka Productions…

AM: From what you have told us so far, it seems that you are quite satisfied with The Rose of Versailles anime.

Ikeda: Yes, I'd say so. Or rather, there isn't anything I have to compare it to, I am the type of person who is generally pleased with things. People say all sorts of things, but I just want to tell them, “think about it for a second.” Just seeing something I worked so hard on end up on TV, and with famous voice actors voicing it, that’s not something that happens every day.

AM: Pretty lucky?

Ikeda: I think so. I am really lucky, aren't I? So, I don't really think in that way of “I didn't like this part” or “I didn't like that part.”

AM: And, if there were an offer to adapt any of your other works...?

Ikeda: Yes, if there was someone who understood what I wanted to express in my work and who my characters are, I suppose I would let them. I myself created The Rose of Versailles using the book Marie Antoinette by Zweig as inspiration. If Zweig had said, "I would be bothered if my work were made into a girls manga," then I would be bothered too. (laughs)

AM: The readers would also be bothered.

Ikeda: I choose to see Zweig respecting my autonomy as a creator and saying "Well then, why don't you try drawing it?”. Besides, Zweig was no longer alive....so I drew it.

AM: The same can be said about the anime.

Ikeda: Right.

AM: But it took you a long time to give permission for an anime adaptation.

Ikeda: There was very strong opposition from the fans, and I was afraid of that. Personally, I thought it could be interesting to do.

AM: Interesting?

Ikeda: Yes. I mean, in the sense that I could see the characters I created actually move. Is that not the dream of every artist who draws?

AM: I would like to ask you some questions about anime other than The Rose of Versailles.

Ikeda: This is a problem. Because I am a novice anime fan (lol).

AM: Do you watch anime often?

Ikeda: No. I haven't even seen Space Battleship Yamato or Galaxy Express 999.

AM: Is there anything you are looking forward to watching?

Ikeda: Well, I would like to see Phoenix, the series Osamu Tezuka is currently working on. Oh, that reminds me, I just saw a Soviet animated short film that was about 10 minutes long, it was at an independent film screening. It didn't have much of a story, just an animated film about a butterfly flying around. But I really liked it.

AM: So you are interested in anime.

Ikeda: Yes, I just arrived late. Osamu Tezuka said, “Animation is great.” He said "you should make one. It wouldn't be something that makes you money like The Rose of Versailles, but something about 10 minutes long, drawn all on your own. For example, a boy and girl meet in a park, exchange a tender glance, and then quietly go their separate ways." He told me "that sort of thing, a really good 10 minutes long, you could draw it in about a year and a half"

AM: That's a wonderful idea.

Ikeda: I think it would be great just to draw something like this for fun!!!

AM: Do you know anything about the technical aspects of animation?

Ikeda: I don't know anything. I told them, Maybe one day I'll apprentice at Mushi Productions (laughs).

AM: Finally, could you give us a few words on anime as a medium.

Ikeda: As you know, I studied philosophy in college. My junior high school teacher was very pleased with that, to have a former student go on to pursue academic scholarship. When I told them I was leaving university to become a manga artist, I got a letter saying "“If you have time to draw something so foolish, you could at least learn one word in German" I thought "do not underestimate me". Really.

美しき愛の誓い

Utsukushiki Ai No Chikai

Beautiful Vow of Love

Lyrics by Shinji Ueda / Music by Takio Terada / Arranged by Hiroshi Takada

Sung Anna Jun

With the ever changing flow of time

An everlasting love

In the flow of time that has passed

Enteral and unchanging

Ah, is love the testimony of living?

Ah, love is the joy of life

Ah, a beautiful vow of love

Ah, until my life's end

A world of those who wander

An endless unchanging love

In the flow of time of human life

Enteral and unchanging

Ah, is love the very essence of life?

Ah, love is the true embodiment of life

Ah, a beautiful vow of love

From Animage March 1980

The Rose of Versailles, The Staff Shares Their Stories + Show recap

Statement from Head Director Osamu Dezaki

I am not too thrilled with how I have seen some people are talking about me. Though I very much appreciate the support and advice. I will be taking it. Thank you. I am not some stupid idiot that doesn't know how to avoid things I don't like. But I'm not gonna let myself get fucked by assholes or lick butthole to keep the peace. A lot of people are, imo, way too comfortable platforming and rubbing noses with people who look down on them, talk shit, hold disdain for them due to fictional preferences and stoke discord in the fandom. I am not going to do that.

I do try to be an active participant in fandom, and to me that first and foremost is interacting with others. Now, I can't help what people send me in my Dms and asks. I have experienced a lot of nastiness, even before I started putting my opinions out there. The public doesn't see everything. I want to encourage discussion, but I am sooo tired of the topics. I might sound like I am being short and overly frustrated. Maybe it doesn't seem that bad on the surface but its been years of this for me now. Why have I kept doing it? Idk I have higher expectations and misplaced faith in people I guess. And I do want to talk to people. But it’s gotten monotonous, extremely irritating and I have a limit. I don’t want to gush about how RoV is “soooo gaaayyy” it’s not. Truly. Likewise I also don’t want to speculate on Ikeda’s possible homophobia, based on everything I’ve seen, I truly do not believe she was writing with this in mind. I do not want to constantly talk about Rosalie, a fan service, audience proxy, side character, who is by no means what people make her out to be. She is NOT that interesting. Sorry. So I will not be doing this anymore.

It is really disheartening that after 2 years so many people are so hung up on the same stuff. I get that there are some newer people here too, but it still astounds me what people think is important about RoV and worth spending their time on. Go do something else. I implore you. Also the general inability to read, connect dots, identify themes and common motifs, or look up information like dates, is wild to me. This is a manga for 12 year olds, that has been around for over 50 years. It is basic 70s feminism, like basic basic bland bland….. we compare men and women because of the disparity. This is how we show said disparity. If people are going to asking me my opinion/what Ikeda said/official material said, that is what they are gonna get. If they don’t like it, I can’t fix that.

It also bugs me that the fandoms sentiments seem to be that there is this pitying fault that lies with the person reacting to the bad behavior but no consequences for the ones behaving badly. "she should have done this, she should have ignored it, she should have done that". I don't need this. I get it.

I also don't think people understand that if everyone just shuts up and "keeps their peace" then the only opinions out there are the ones of people lying and spreading misinformation, those lies become accepted truth; see the past few years here. This is not about people enjoying transformative works or fanon, that is totally normal, even if not to everyone’s tastes. I feel like I contribute plenty to be allowed to have an opinion out there. I can even occasionally share it with someone I don't agree with. They do it to me all the time. Of course my opinions are going to contain bias, but I really do try to be objective with them. I am not trying to hurt anyone’s feelings or insult their personal tastes. But I am not one for imaginative alternative readings or writing fanfiction. I really truly do not think there is enough wiggle room in what we are given for them either. Unless you do a lot of ignoring of context and applying outside context where it truly is not. The burden of knowledge and decades of it, has also made various "theories/readings" uninteresting to me. As my own reading, what I see in the actual text/imagery, and everything official directly refute most of them. Sorry, I will not partake. I really don't see it. Not when you take into account the full picture and not your two out of context panels. The people demanding that I do so in my messages, it’s never gonna happen.

While I enjoy fan work, my blog is a space of canon compliance and official media. So when I interact here that is the place I am coming from. Because I am a collector of these specific things and this is what this blog is specifically presenting.

I am also not a fan anachronistic literary analysis and fandom is obsessed with this. I find little value in this type of analysis and even less in the fandom space, it is a horrible place for it. People use this to refuse to interact with the work in good faith, see the work for its own merits or to force things that don't make sense, and also be mad about it. This always comes at the expense of what is actually there. It’s a huge shame and really doesn't go anywhere, as the reasonings and criticisms do not compute with the source material or text and quickly fall apart when you look at the whole or result in a resounding 'you don't like this work'. To which I ask, why are you here then? I like and really only care about what is actually there. I think what is there has value worth appreciating. Sorry.

While I do think a healthy amount of criticism is good and everyone, even myself have things I don't like. There is a level of criticism beyond which, I do not think you can call yourself a fan. It is irritating to have to deal with people like this, who have nothing nice to say.

JFC, since you keep asking this question and obviously didn’t get the hint and cannot figure it out on your own.

If everyone is of age, regardless of age gap, I don’t know what the issue is, but here are the details.

Its not the same age gap. Bernard is around Robespierre's age. Which puts him at most 4/5 years older than Rosalie. That is a much smaller age gap, half the age gap. If we take him being based on Camille Desmoulins, that actually puts him at only 3 years older. He met her once when she was a kid and he was a teen, then not again for 11 years, and as adults. Oscar met Rosalie at 12 and took her in, was her main provider, caretaker, teacher, basically raised her etc. She watched her grow up. That is a very different situation. People may find issue with that.

What I think the real issue is, is that people don’t know what they are shipping but act like they care about and love the ship soooo much, which they don’t and they can’t, if they don’t know and can’t tell the elements and dynamic that fundamentally make that relationship what it is. Which is a one sided, age gap relationship, that spans 11+ years of one party watching the other grow up into an adult. If that is what you like and find appealing, go for it. So most of this amounts to “characters look cool together, I don’t know how to read”. How ridiculous, and ironically the people who ship it are usually the ones that find age gaps bad, would otherwise not ship them and call smaller age gaps grooming. Oscar/Rosalie very much toes the line of actually being what you would call grooming.

I think the majority of people who ship Oscar and Rosalie are kinda shallow and dumb, because they don’t even know what they are shipping! And therefore cannot truly like it, and I find it embarrassing. I think Rosalie’s age, immaturity and her dynamic with Oscar is very clear. If you like it for what it actually is, cool I have no issue with this. I have an issue withc the hypocrisy (these people calling smaller age gap grooming) and the stupid (not being able to read and pick up on these things). Oh and the pretending it means soooo much to them (when it doesn't, they don't even know what's going on!) and that it was so 'revolutionary' and 'oh so sapphic representation' when it wasn't, it was basic, run of the mill and considered uninteresting and childish.

But if you do like the idea of shipping, older person falls for kid they kinda raised, when they grow up into an adult or large age gap, go for it. Do it. Welcome to historical fiction.

I am so sorry I deleted your ask. I am very tired.

No one thinks this, but at a point it gets really really really annoying to be in the space *fandom* where we are supposed to be able to celebrate the thing we love with others who feel the same, but are constantly bombarded with negativity and "criticism" that is merely thinly veiled hate that winds up being directed, not at the work, but other fans. The constant discourse, baiting, stirring shit up, and not being happy or contributing to fandom in a positive way about the things one loves, is not it.

People are tired of this shit. They can be annoyed. I am annoyed. And yes, people are constantly spreading misinformation on top of all of that too, and don't even know what they are a "fan" of half the time. Its stupid. This fandom has been around for over 50 years and a lot of us have been around for decades and I don't care for this modern socmed fandom bullshit ego trip " im so 'criticallll" pseudo psyche shit. I promise it does not sound smart or informed at all. Its all the same wank, different show.

Too many people use this work to platform their own ideas, instead of exploring what's actually there, this is the real problem and the people who do this do this to every interest they have RoV is not unique. I have no interest in this type of fan or fandom. Sorry.

If what you like about The Rose of Versailles are aesthetics and the vague idea of a theme that never develops the way you wanted it to or at all, are you really a fan? If you only like the idea of a potential the never happened, are you really a fan? If you think a character looks cool but you hate who they really are or their story, are you really a fan? If you spend more time in fandom talking about what you don't like instead of what you do, are you really a fan? If you are not having fun with the source material are you really a fan? If the Rov that you like only exists in your head, are you really a fan? If all you like to do is be "critical" and pick a work apart and show how your version would be sooooo much better, are you really a fan? If all you do is bitch moan and complain are you really a fan?

What is a fan? Shortened form of fanatic. Deffinition: a person exhibiting excessive enthusiasm and intense uncritical devotion toward something.

I don't know, maybe we don't know what fan means.

Kind of liking something does not make you a fan. Liking a couple ideas of something doesn't make you a "fan". Thinking a character looks cool does not make you a fan. Circle jerking the same tired shit in your twitter friend group does not make you a fan.

I am so tired of this fandom obsessing over the same 2 tired, uninteresting topics, that are not even that important or relevant, that they can't even be bothered to look at objectively or textually. The horse has been milked of blood and we have nothing new to show for it. Stop. People either like RoV or they are mad its not something else, and won't let it go. Do they instead find something that suits their tastes or create their own transformative fanfic? No, they bitch, complain, drag other fans, make rude posts towards the rest of fandom and create an unpleasant environment for everyone.

If someone acts like any of that no, they are not a fan.

Happy Birthday Lou Lou!

From The Rose of Versailles Children’s Pocket Encyclopedia

People like Loulou, who are born under the sign of Gemini, have a cheerful and straightforward personality. They get along with people right away, even if they've just met. However, they bore easily and can be fickle. Though never insisting on selfish demands or getting their way, they are always popular. They are quick witted and get good grades in school. Loulou has shown talent since childhood that even surprises Oscar.

No, I think this scene gets blown out of proportion and doesn't mean what some people think. I don't think she meant it seriously, it is not some binding contract. It is not a deep emotional vow. 100% if Oscar was a born a man I do not think she would marry a random girl she found on the street. She would have more freedom to choose whoever she wants or even possibly less depending on what the family wants to arrange. As a hypothetical it is flawed. It is not meant to be literal. I don't think it was anything more than placation. The “I wish I had a butt like yours” to the “Does my butt look fat?”. It’s not about being gay or not. I don't think Oscar is the nicest or most considerate person and this is a moment of her trying to be. That is what this is. She is understanding other people have feelings and being sensitive to them and trying to make Rosalie feel better by saying what she thinks would do that, albeit still thinking about herself and her own problems.

I personally find Oscar to be pretty inconsiderate and dismissive of Rosalie in general, its kinda sad and messed up. I do think Oscar cares a lot for Rosalie, in her own way, but she is also very selfish and the story is a process of her learning this, and growing out of it. She isn't the best friend tbh. Oscar makes her cry multiple times by being short with her. She is very quick to push her out of her house onto her mother, who already pushed one daughter to suicide, knowing full well she will end up in an arranged marriage. She puts up zero fight to keep her and even YELLS at her that she should go live with her mother. Then blows years of dust into her face. Sure, she laments that she can not help Rosalie but the emphasis is on her own helplessness and still comes off as selfish. Rosalie is kidnapped and could be murdered or have all sorts of horrible things happening to her, but Oscar prioritizes Andres booboo eye, that would have been fine. She then pushes her out of her house again, granted we know Bernard is a decent guy and that he and Rosalie love each other, but this guy just kidnapped her and tried to kill them all a week before.... Not the greatest friend here.

薔薇になみだを

Bara Ni Namida O

Tears for the Rose

Lyrics by Shinji Ueda / Music by Takio Terada / Arranged by Hiroshi Takada

Sung by Anna Jun

Beaten by the rain, the roses blooms

Raindrops falling like tears

Sad and wistful

A heart that is known to no one

The tears of the rose, the eyes of the rose

Who could know?

Tossed by the wind, the roses blooms

Petals tremble like a sigh

Sad and wistful

A heart that is known to no one

The sigh of the rose, the sigh of the roses

Jun Anna - Tears for the Rose, 1976

Bara Ni Namida O/Utsukushiki Ai No Chikai

薔薇になみだを/美しき愛の誓い

Additionally, I have seen you say before in answer to something that the "born a man line" Oscar says to Rosalie is only because of Fersen, but I always thought based on the story and official material I have read that Oscar genuinely did care for Rosalie and would have married her had they not both been women. Because of this, I was wondering if that was maybe just your opinion on the line or if you had an official source for it (though it is a solid interpretation either way).

Thanks 💛

Well, they were never intended to be together at all. Or seen as a romantic situation. That is head canon. But yes there is a big age difference, 8 years, Oscar meets Rosalie when she is around 20 and Rosalie is 12. It isn't really an S story, just S like. Rosalie is a audience proxy homage to the fangirls, and she does have feelings for Oscar. But Rosalie's view of Oscar is a very idealized fantasy version that isn't authentic. Oscar does genuinely care for Rosalie, as a little sister, which she states multiple times. Oscar feels responsibility towards her. There is an official analysis book that goes over Rosalie, it states Oscar feels towards Rosalie how an older brother would. Oscar never had romantic interest in her and could not return her feelings.

In that scene she feels some sort of sad and guilty because she knows how that feels, because that is her situation with Fersen. After her failure of not being sensitive to MAs emotional needs and feelings, she is now aware of others feelings. And her own, for Fersen. Oscar says the marriage line, which in one book was likened to "the sort of thing a mother says to her daughter to make her feel better", to make Rosalie feel better about herself, because she feels bad Rosalie spent the whole night crying over her when she didn't come home. Which right after she thinks "If I was a man, my life would be easier". Oscar spent the whole night crying over Fersen, who had yet to come home. None of this has anything to do with her having romantic feelings towards Rosalie, but with her frustrations with her new awareness of her own and others feelings, neither of which are going how she would like. At this moment she thinks she would not have these problems if she was a man.

The Takarazuka Revue’s The Rose of Versailles Costume Designs