toxic codependancy forever

Dirk never actually treats her as an equal, but the difference between how he treats her and everyone else is just that big. He's so needlessly cruel to every other character, but with Rose he switches from this poetic reverence when she's interacting with him, to bragging about how much she loves him and making sex jokes about her when he talks about her with others. I think she might be the only character he never directly insults?

i gave a little snippet here but why not share another?

His tongue darts out to lick his lips and he clears his throat. Rose looks at him expectantly, like she thinks he's about to fold. No such thing. He whinnies, or, close enough. Closer than the average citizen but not as close as the average 25th century Earth teen. 

'Literally the only reason you could have these is if you're into ponyplay,' Dirk says in a bored tone. He picks up another sugarcube and throws it up to catch it in his mouth. He's mostly doing it to annoy Rose, who uses the pretty, silver tongs every time she picks a cube up and who can't catch anything in her mouth, even when it's thrown very carefully and with good aim.

Rose blinks at him slowly. She reminds him of a particularly condescending cat, which is saying something given the general temperament of cats. She takes a cube (with the tongs) and places it in her palm.

'Well?' she says, holding it out to him. Hand flat, so her fingers don't get bit by the pony. Almost as low as the table, so he'd look like he was bowing to her if he met her challenge.

Huh. They've never had a true game of incest chicken, have they? Whenever they have an audience, someone (usually Dave) makes them stop by force, so neither of them have ever lost.

I just finished the meat epilogue and now I can't stop thinking about whatever the fuck was going on with Dirk and Rose. The entire fucking thing was so unsettling with Dirk bassicly grooming a dying Rose into being his "perfect daughter" meanwhile she is barely able to understand what is going on around her. His weird obsession over her being his "daughter" now and him her "Father" was so offputting that I can't stop thinking about it.

The way he talks about her as if they need eachother yet he is the one projecting those feelings onto her is just classic groomer behaviour. Honestly it was probably the Dirk part of doc scratch that made his such a fucking weirdo (also reminder of the 'you can view me as your human uncle' line from scratch, same exact shit ult dirk is doing with rose in Meat but as a Father instead)

But then you have his manipulation of Kanaya, literally making her feel like he can give her something she can't. He always avoid using romantic language because I don't think he wants to admit it but the fact this is aimed and Rose's wife speaks volumes to what he wants out of this. Regardless of if he thinks its romantic, Ult Dirk believes he can 'replace' what Kanaya gives Rose which is just so icky.

Honestly I have to commend the epilogue writers for making this fucking unsettingly real as someone who has actually went through this sort of non-sexual but still romanticly incestuous grooming from someone in their life.

Unfortunately my brain can stop thinking about it prolly cause im partially triggered but hey here we are.

rose may or may not be gay

dirk is gay (but he obvs wants to fuck rose anyway, metaphorically or not)

roxy is very upset by the idea

there are many bad things abt dirkrose, incest being one of them

By bringing attention to "what is actually wrong with their relationship" instead of just saying "incest bad" it actually makes people think about why is it bad.

Karkat literally says that there are far bigger issues with their relationship then the fact they are ecto biologically related. and that is the problem.

Incest isn't just wrong cause its incest, its wrong cause the power dynamics are completely fucked (especially in this situation).

This is why ultdirk/rose fans who like to pretend whatever they have going on is "good actually" (cough davekat sucks) kinda piss me off, no its fucked up and thats what makes it great. You have a man who for all intents and purposes outside of what he identifies is gay who bassicly has the ability to manipulate people to suit his narrative.

He decides to project all of his feelings of his relationship with Jake onto Rose's relationship with Kanaya and practically kidnaps and manipulates her while she is extremely ill all the while talking about how similar they are while half the time using her as a ventriloquist doll, parroting whatever words he wants the audience to hear.

I would write far more thoughts on the situation but a lot of those will just come through in the fic I have committed to writing.

This line really struck me in my Epilogues reread:

Kanaya loves Rose, but sometimes love just isn’t enough. Sometimes what you need is understanding.

Because, the thing is, this line isn't really about Kanaya and Rose. It's about Jake and Dirk. And it becomes obvious when compared with another line from later on where Dirk talks about his relationship with Rose:

We’re family. We belong together. And after years of micromanaging the inconsistent and confused desires of total imbeciles, wouldn’t it be a relief to have someone by my side who understood me?

So here's what I think is going on. Dirk feels desperately, desperately alone. His ascension to Ultimate Self-hood is making him aware of all sorts of dire shit. He's becoming aware of his status as a fictional character and the tenuous position of the "canon" he's from. He's "drowning in his own dismal persona", as he once put it in canon. And no one fucking gets it, least of all the man he loves.

Because it's clear that Jake could never, ever understand what Dirk is going through. He does not understand Dirk. Will not understand Dirk. Willfully chooses to avoid understanding Dirk at every turn. And Dirk is so, so tired of it.

And then Dirk starts to get to know Rose better, and… they just click. They truly are kindred spirits in many ways. They have similar senses of humor, similar interests, similar ways of viewing the world. And most importantly, Rose is ascending too. She will soon be in a position to understand what's going on at the same level Dirk does. She'll be able to understand him. And Dirk needs understanding so desperately.

But there's a problem, and that problem is that, while Dirk feels that he doesn't have anyone else who can understand him, the same isn't true for Rose. Because Kanaya does understand her. Maybe not completely. Maybe she'll never fully be able to grasp the metaphysical implications of Rose's ascension. But, importantly, she tries to understand, in a way Jake would never do for Dirk.

And so Dirk knows that, in order for his plan to work, in order to convince Rose to come with him, he has to prevent Kanaya from getting to her at all costs. Because no matter how much he tries to tell himself that Rose would feel the same way he does even without his influence, he knows that if Rose had to choose between him and Kanaya, she would choose Kanaya in a heartbeat.

So he prevents Kanaya from reaching Rose, manipulates Kanaya into telling Rose that she should leave her and go with Dirk. And he suborns Rose's will into his own. He does everything he can to make her part of him. Because in the end, the only way Dirk Strider can understand to not be alone is to gaze at himself in the mirror.

I'll leave you with a quote from Candy:

dirk's palpable yearning to have someone by his side who understands what he's going through. all this stuff about how he and rose are "basically the same person". dirk taking her hand, thinking of her as beautiful, saying that they belong together. dirk explicitly positioning himself as a competitor to kanaya. and then the whole part at the end where dave wonders if dirk and rose are TOGETHER together and no one feels like they can fully deny that it's a possibility

Dirk settles in against the wall beside Rose, shoulder to shoulder. She seems to take some measure of comfort in the physical proximity. When she finds herself leaning against him—probably without thinking about it, Dirk imagines, because neither of them really “do” that—he doesn’t pull away. If it’s her, it’s all right.

they're

This time, Dirk does reach out to steady her. He kneels in front of her, curls a knuckle under her chin, and lifts her face up to his level. Then, in a deliberate motion, he pulls off his shades. DIRK: I understand completely. Rose’s eyelids flutter, heavy. She meets the intensity of his naked gaze aloofly, like she’s not aware this is the first time he’s ever let her see it.

so

She turns, and the light from her eyes is blinding. It dims a bit as she lowers her eyelids. She regards me with an almost unbearably bright adoration. The kind that’s difficult to look at directly, but you can’t manage to look away either.

fucking

The thing is, what you’re suddenly questioning isn’t so much about whether your suspicions that Rose and I have been sneaking around behind your back are wrong, per se. It’s that you’re starting to wonder if they’re right, but you’ve been the one who was wrong to object.

intense

It’s growing dark around her again. The apparition she’s been projecting behind her fades, and she starts to bleed light and shadow in all directions. Her physical eyes are open now, and shining bright. It’s a striking sight. She’s beautiful, actually—diaphanous and disheveled and filled with the limitless light of metaspiritual curiosity. But for all the effervescent mysticism of her otherworldly becoming, I feel like this is the very first time I’m truly seeing her for what she’s always been to me. She’s my daughter in every sense of the word. My equal, my mirror. It used to be odd to consider it. A technical fact I’d accepted as a genetic reality, but nothing that could ever quite penetrate down to the soul. But in this moment it doesn’t feel strange at all. It feels right, suddenly. And I know she must feel the same way. There’s no way she doesn’t. All she needs is a nudge in the right direction. We’re family. We belong together. And after years of micromanaging the inconsistent and confused desires of total imbeciles, wouldn’t it be a relief to have someone by my side who understood me?

just. fucking incredible