Untitled

I just saw a quick thing on TikTok about the end credits calling Ted a "Steward" and Karen's maiden name being Childress

ie a Steward takes care of something that isn't his and Childress is a name for someone who runs an orphanage and, well, takes care of kids that aren't actually theirs.

Weird right? Putting that together, it kind of implies that at least some of their kids aren't theirs.

Also, it brings back one of my earlier questions of what the heck does Ted do for a living? He is literally ALWAYS in the house with Karen. It doesn't matter what time of day it is, he's right there. He sleeps a lot and always in his living room chair instead of with his wife, since season 1.

He watches a lot of tv, just like the agents did in season 4. Clearly he isn't an agent because he was really bad at dealing with the demogorgan situation-Karen seemed more capable-but maybe he did work for the lab in some capacity? Seriously, why was he always home and always in a suit?

Anyway, it got me thinking back to a couple of things related to Hawkins being a larger lab experiment

The TFS news articles at the end calling for pregnant women volunteers (and all the pregnant women in 5)

Karen telling Nancy she thought she was switched at birth

Lonnie never being in a single scene with Will and only showing up when he thinks he's dead. Lonnie referring to Jonathon as his son but showing zero concern or interest for Will.

Owens calling Joyce and Hopper "Mom. Pop." when coming in to check on Will in 2. It's weird, because why did he say that? No one was ever pretending Hopper was Will's dad and Owens knew the score. But he definitely says Pop not Hop. I checked several times.

Papa and then Hopper both attempting to be a parental figure to El while simultaneously isolating her. Hopper calling her a science experiment in 1 and betraying her location to the lab in exchange for Will, but then keeping her hidden in the cabin while still keeping things quiet for the lab. (Being left with a tv is nicer than being forced to kill cats and spy on Russians, but she is still locked up and isolated in both cases for extended periods of time) .... Bonus, even though he takes care of her and Owens helps him adopt her, the way he tells the story of Sarah in both 2 and 5 feels so upsetting. "Sarah? Well, Sarah's my daughter." and "Sarah, my daughter? She was brave." etc. Not she was my daughter too. The language is always very distancing from El, if that makes sense. "You are like Papa!"

Terry Ives saying "No" in the mindscape when El says "Mama, it's me, Jane. I'm here now. I'm home."

The older teens with no parents. Constantly hearing about but never seeing Steve's parents. Constantly hearing about but never seeing Robin's mother. Both becoming caretakers/mentors for the younger party members.

This is just a family bonus. Everyone talking about an uncle for some reason, even when it seemed superfluous to the story. Holly. Erica. Robin. Steve. And Eddie having one.

I know everyone has moved on, and I've tried to make this post multiple times, but after watching it again, I keep finding similarities and little Easter eggs that are just insane. These two shows should not be THIS similar. The characters, should not have THIS MUCH in common unless it's on purpose. The fact that I can find a comparison to almost every ST character with almost every TB character is... well, let's just say that is one hell of a coincidence.

Edited to add: They keep talking about supporting original stories but it really feels like they keep supporting/telling the same story so that's a little confusing unless cg and the meta theories are real.

Spoilers ahead if you haven't watched The Boroughs

The Characters:

Sam keeps reliving the last moments of his wife’s life where she died surrounded by puzzle pieces with The Boss playing in the background.

Mike keeps reliving the last moments before El died while Prince played in the background, and there were several visual and verbal references to puzzle pieces in season 5.

Judy is an investigative journalist who owns a gun and loves 2 men. After the death of one, she’s all in on finding the monster and killing it.

Nancy wants to be an investigative journalist, is great with guns and stuck between two men. After the death of her bff while sleeping with one, she’s all in on finding the monster and killing it.

Art is smoking weed all the time, talking to a psycho pomp crow like he was his therapist and worried his relationship with Judy might be over. He’s lying about where he goes every day. He talks about playing golf and lives in the desert. He even mentions Brooksy is looking out for his mushrooms.

Jonathon in 4 was smoking all the time, talking to Argyle like he was his therapist and worried about his relationship with Nancy. He’s lying about why he isn’t visiting her and doesn’t want to go to Emerson. There is an actual scene of him hitting golf balls in the desert. At the end Argyle is looking for mushrooms.

They said “Everybody loves/loved Jack” at least 5 times, which tells me that Jack the weatherman is Steve the Hair Harrington. (Steve even mentions or implies Nancy is "special" in every season, which Jack says to Sam about Judy "She's special")

Renee Joyce finds her missing quartz suspicious even though nobody else does, gets in a relationship with a “cop”, has a horrible ex who is sue-happy, finds proof in a video, loves Wally enough to torture an old lady if it will save him.

Joyce finds her missing son/the magnets suspicious even though nobody else does, gets in a relationship with a cop, has a horrible ex who wants to sue Sattlers Quarry, finds proof of the MF on a video, loves Will enough to do anything to save him. Exorcisms, kidnappings, entering the UD etc.

The Mother connects to Sam. She projects herself as his wife to communicate. She’s been used for so long but now it’s time for her to die and she needs his help. She has an ET dress up moment to hide in plain sight. She brings Judy back to life against all odds. Sam is the last person she talks to before she dies.

El connects to Mike and she needs his help. She’s been used by the lab for years. Brings Max back against all odds. Has an ET dress up moment. Mike is the last person she talks to before she dies.

Blaine and his wife run a business that is basically a cult for the employees. It’s centered around Mother and her children and it has to do with her blood. And immortality.

To keep her, they monitor their closed neighborhood of seniors with seraphim and send the children to collect cerebral spinal fluid to feed her.

Brenner runs a lab that is basically a cult centered around El who is a child (and possibly other children) and it has to do with her/their blood. And time?

To keep El they monitor Hawkins with bugs and a faux energy company.

(I would like to say I also saw a lot of potentially Vance Goodman and Mindy Flare (and maybe Henry and Patty?) in that couple. She was desperate to live and violent and he was all about trying to keep her alive.)

Wally is gay and he’s dying of a terminal cancer. He was also a doctor working on a cure for AIDS in the 80s. To save his friends he agrees to help them heal mother while his friends pretend everything is back to normal.

Will is gay in the 80s. To save his friends he might have given in to the MF and given his friends a world in which everything seemed to have gone back to normal.  

Hank had a child and worked as a warden, but he did bad things-and to be fair-enjoyed them. He was given a job opportunity that would let him live forever if he aided and abetted Blaine and his wife and "the children" People thought he died but he didn't.

Hopper had a child and worked as a cop, but his guilt over his past hindered him. He agreed to keep what was going on at the lab quiet in return for helping Joyce save Will. People thought he died but he didn't. (Basically Hank is Evil Hopper)

There are elements of Dustin in Sam-the inventor, tinkerer and all those tvs reminded me of Dustin's creation in that one commercial.

There are elements of Max in both Judy and Renee. Renee is a sassy badass and Judy is brought back to life.

I didn't see Robin or Lucas in anyone necessarily. But Paz was kind of an Eddie/Billy/Bob combo. A musician who was sweet and also into older women. :)

Bonus Easter Eggs:

Sam watching the OG Little Shop of Horrors

The Little Shop of Horrors poster on Will's wall

The "children" being in cages at The Manor

The children being locked up at Hawkins lab

Art calls himself an Eagle Scout and Erica tells Judy that Sam is a Boy Scout.

Henry being a Boy Scout is fairly important to the show.

TB starts with ET mom actress running from a monster and that monster dragging her back inside and carrying her away.

ST starts with a scientist running from a monster and that monster dragging and carrying him away.

Only one monster gets a name "Scar"

Only one monster gets a name "Dart"

The tunnels.

The tunnels.

Golf carts

bicycles

Sneaking into a morgue to do an informal autopsy to find the truth.

Sneaking into a morgue to do an informal autopsy to find the truth.

The microscope in Wally's box

The microscope in Castle Byers

Blood giving immortality

Blood giving super powers

Wally picking out a coffin and laying in a closed one to hide.

Jonathon picking out Will's coffin and them having a funeral for him even though he wasn't dead.

Renee and Paz walking after a car goes off a cliff

Joyce and Hopper walking after the truck explodes

A famous David Bowie song on soundtrack -Golden Years

A famous David Bowie song on soundtrack- Heroes

A reach but...

When the children's blue blood combines with the Mother's gold blood, a cure is created.

"When blue and yellow meet in the West." (the west in that case being New Mexico, considered part of the American West) *also byler*

Edited to add: "Take the deal. Take a class. Play pickle ball." When Wally tells them to take the deal or end up in the bad guy's hands.

"Study for that test, enjoy that tv dinner, go on that date" When Robin is telling her audience to ignore the military quarantine that's kept them all locked up for 18 months.

Edited to add: Someone in the comments just mentioned something I forgot!

The children feed by sending tendrils into people's mouths.

The MF and Vecna put vines in children's mouths (the difference is they're putting something in instead of taking it out)

Boroughs names bonus #2

An old man named Mike is waiting for his best friend at a fake bus stop every day.

A younger woman named Erica helps Judy investigate Sam

Renee's last name is Joyce

Judy and Art's last name is Daniels -Daniel was the name of the bad guy in Tales from 85

Wally's last name is Baker which is synonymous with Baxter, as in Nikki Baxter and Mrs. Baxter who teaches evolution...oh and Sam's middle name is Darwin-a guy who wrote the book on evolution.

Edward (Eddie) says the owl is in the walls. He has Maxwell's disease.

Hank Williams and Jack Willard are both characters in the show with Will-centric last names.

Ella/El is the name of Sam's granddaughter

A blonde named Terri gets up to sing at Jack's funeral because they used to have a thing and its'...not great. Which reminded me of Tammy.

Made a comment about the graduation speech yesterday that I thought was funny, but you can't deny that the comparison has some validity. :)

The Mi(Mic)

Is pretending to be something we all know he isn't.

The Will O' The Wisp

A beautiful light unwittingly leading the party into danger.

The (El)der Brain

I was thinking about the couple relationships in ST and noted that they're all forbidden in one way or another. And then I thought about the fact that they show that through windows ie they all have window scenes.

Steve and Nancy are hiding their relationship in season 1 and Steve climbs up to her bedroom window in secret. Jonathon takes pictures of Nancy through Steve's window. Then Steve sees Jonathon in her room through her window, and they both climb out of it before Karen comes in her room.

Nancy and Jonathon are not only from different financial/ social classes, which they mention a few times, but she sleeps with him while technically still dating Steve, and in 3 sneaks out of his bedroom through the window every morning.

Max's brother is scary, racist and judgmental, and she has to sneak out her window to leave with Lucas and not be seen beside him when Billy picks her up.

El is hidden in a closet and a basement, and she stares at Mike through a window when she realizes she can't go back. Then she's obsessively traveling to her void (the window in her mind) to watch Mike missing her and has to sneak out of the cabin to see him, where she watches him through a window in a door talking to Max. (note the difference in that all of El's window scenes are observational only, she never climbs through one and neither does Mike)

Dustin straight up says his relationship with Suzie is romantic and forbidden. "It's all a bit Shakespearean. Like Romeo and Juliet. Star crossed lovers?" because of the distance and her family's religion. When we meet her, she requires a serenade before she helps-which is something famously done to a woman from below a balcony or through an open window. When the party goes to see her in person for the first time, they all look at her through an open window that she climbed out of to fix something on the roof.

Mike and Will have no window scenes, but they are alive in a small town in the 80s and Mike is trying to be normal, so they're the definition of forbidden. (And Robin explains the signs to get around that beside a window in a door that they can see Vickie through)

Woke up thinking about all the lying on a show with the mantra "Friends don't lie." Also about characters not noticing all the things that were wrong in their environment in season 5. So illusions, lying and blindness. When did it actually start? Why? Were there any hints before it happened?

In season 3

Lucas gets sprayed with hairspray by Dustin in the eyes in the first episode, causing temporary blindness.

Shortly after, a threat from Hopper has Mike lying to El.

Which leads to Lucas spraying Mike directly in his eyes with a purple perfume bottle, causing temporary blindness.

shortly after, Mike projects his own feelings onto Will "It's not my fault you don't like girls"

Looking for a 3rd spray, I realized that in the end of season 2, Dustin got sprayed in the face by a spore sac in the tunnels, so he was the first. Hopper did too but he's not an official party member so I'm not counting that.

*This means Will is the only member of the core four NOT to get sprayed in the eyes by something causing temporary blindness. Huh.

Following a truth serum of some kind which Mike could really use, Steve and Robin look up at the ceiling and see a kaleidoscopic or prismatic like imagery that first wows them and then makes them sick.

Mindsong- Dustin and Suzie sing Neverending Story over Cerebro and every character, including the 3 adults hiding in the Russian lab where anyone could find them if they made too much noise, all listen to the whole thing. At the time this is cute and funny, but a lot of people think this was a hugely important moment and whether it was the song or Planck's Constant, whatever happened there led to season 4 and Vecna's actions.

Lucas and Max sing this song again in a teasing way to Dustin as the Byers pack to leave for California. Will sings a line of the song and Argyle mentions The Nothing before they head to Suzie in Utah.

What if it was something like the Mind song of the False Hydra? A song that lingered in their minds to find false reasons to believe what they're seeing instead of looking for the actual truth? A song they heard after being blinded maybe?

How it changes the Byers and the party in 4 (Reverses Friends Don't Lie)

Jonathon is embracing the oblivion hard. How many times do they mention Purple (violet) Palm Tree Delight in 4, and how often does Jonathon act blind/oblivious before snapping out of it to take care of his brother? His entire arc this season is LYING to Nancy about their future and college and why he didn't come to see her (and she is embracing that lie for her own reasons)

Joyce appears unaware that El is suffering in school. Unworried about Will. Completely clueless that Jonathon is high as a kite. Yes, her distance started in 3 where she was more focused on her Hopper adventure to Illinois, but this feels different. (also a far cry from her helicopter mom strangling with apron strings behavior with Will in 5) She is LYING to her kids about where she's going and why.

El is LYING to everyone about how much she is suffering in school without Hopper or her powers. Even to Will who is seeing the truth first hand. She is so invested in her lying, that her final fight with Angela is her ordering the bully to go to Mike and tell him the lie is true, even after the Carrie milkshake incident he saw with his own eyes. When she refuses, El breaks her nose violently. She then demands the truth "From Mike" and when he doesn't give it, she is taken away by police and then Owens to find her own truth. Maybe. The Nina situation is still sketchy to me.

Will only starts lying when Mike arrives and gives him that stupid, uncomfortable bro hug and barely looks at him. And the lie is about the painting not being for him. Though he reprimands El for lying to Mike, saying he'll be upset and he won't like it, he eventually gives up (Because Mike is oblivious) and lies again with the even bigger Painting Lie. So basically he's only lying about the painting and his feelings for Mike. And to Suzie about the game system.

Mike lies to El about telling her he loves her "I say it" and then he lies in his actual love confession. Sort of. (He does love her and care about her "SO MUCH" but it's not the kind of love she wants from him) Mike lies with his eyes (noticing boys and Will and not realizing El is being bullied right in front of his face until it's too late) Mike only tells half truths to Will as well. He keeps stopping himself from being specific, telling him details about "that one thing" he should have said etc.

Lucas lies about who he is to be popular, because it's clear he doesn't relate to the jocks that much. But he's honest about that with his friends and he never lies to Max. He then helpfully lies to the jocks to save his friends, but again, not that bad an action considering it saved Dustin and Max.

Max is lying all over the place. To her therapist and all her friends about her depression. To Lucas about why they broke up. Even after she realizes she's a target, she lies about her feelings until she escapes her first Vecna attack and music sets her free. Then she's telling the truth again.

Interestingly, Erica is literally calling people liars this whole season. At the town meeting, and to the party when they are talking to the cops and the parents. Until she's given the truth by Dustin and then she joins them in their plans. She was right there for the song, but she seems immune to the lying disease.

Dustin starts season 4 by getting Suzie to help him lie about his grades by changing them. BUT other than that, it's only his growing antipathy toward Steve (he mocks and snaps at him a lot in favor of Eddie in 4) that feels false or forced. Instead, he's telling Eddie the truth. He's figuring out the truth about Vecna and the gates. He's telling Eddie's uncle as much truth as he can about Eddie being a hero. As the singer-he might not be affected?

Steve, Robin, Nancy, Hopper and Murray only tell little normal lies to find the bigger truth or protect the kids/their loved ones.

Eddie does not lie at all. He's basically a metal-loving, occasionally drug-dealing saint.

Yuri lies continuously.

The entire town is revved up into a panicked mob based on the charismatic but incorrect and secretly violent Jason. He believes his own lies: That he's the best, that Chrissy would never do drugs, that they were happy, that Eddie is a Satan worshiper causing the killings and killing him is the right thing to do.

Vecna's victims have all been keeping secrets that shame them. Lying by omission. Max with Billy, Chrissy with her mother's abuse and eating disorder, Fred with that still kind of mysterious car accident, Patrick with his father's abuse.

Anyway, the change from party honesty and "Friends don't lie" being a repeated refrain and season 4, which appears to be ALL about lying to each other, is pretty dramatic.

So something important changed the entire landscape around seasons 2 and 3 that we're all still looking for. Snowball or Cerebro? Mike was lying a lot in 3, even before the song, so I'm not sure.

Whatever it is, it leads us to season 5, the entire season of which feels like a giant lie to the audience, because none of it makes sense or seems real. The characters are wrong and jumbled. The plans feel off or repetitive. The stakes are missing. The conclusions are...inconclusive.

edited to add: I said 6 but March 29th 1986 was the field scene at the end of 4 to Nov 3-6 of 1986 makes 7 months (and 5 days). Still valid though. in fact... 7 is usually our magic number.

I can't stop thinking about this. And most of it relates to character's emotions and reactions as well as their living situations.

It wasn't 18 months.

Dustin's defiant, angry grief still feels very fresh. Andy and the teams antipathy for Lucas (calling him a traitor) and Lucas only just reminding him of Erica kicking him in the nuts feels like it would have happened the first time they went back to school together, not 18 months later.

The Wheeler's living situation hasn't reached the normal boiling point for crowded houses with two families yet. Karen and Ted's talk would have happened a month or two in, not over a year in. And Joyce would not have been okay taking advantage of the Wheelers for THAT long without them knowing a little bit of the truth of the situation. She's a very independent hard working single mother. She felt uncomfortable with a casserole, she wouldn't feel great about housing charity for 18 months.

Hopper's raggedy beard crazy mountain man look and constant flashbacks of Sara that he was starting to overcome in previous seasons-not to mention that bomb vest-makes it seem as if something bad has already happened to El and he's in denial. Nothing about his character felt right from the start of 5 on.

A Hawkins still reeling from "the earthquake" would be slower to react to being taken over. But after a year and a half, the town would definitely be done with being on lockdown and journalists would be on the case.

The Nancy, Jonathon, Steve thing would have come to a head a lot sooner. Steve isn't going to passive aggressively flirt for a year and a half without someone, Nancy, Robin or Jonathon (and it should have been Nancy) putting a stop to it or having a confrontation about it.

And speaking of, in One Way or Another, Nancy's book, it was only 2 months after the gates opened that while panicked and searching for Vecna, Nancy and Robin stumble onto a conspiracy having to do with poison chemicals and real estate.

Are you going to sit there and tell me it makes ANY sense that she wouldn't have been figuring out wtf the military was doing with all those supplies and a building in the UD after they took over her entire town and don't seem to have any idea that Vecna even exists? In a year and a half, she's just marking down crawl spots and running a radio station? Nancy f-ing Wheeler?

At the very least, as a favor to El, she might be attempting to discover everything she could about them and why they sent so much manpower just for one girl.

El is...very off as well. Part of me thinks she's participating almost entirely from the mindscape or in people's minds. She's hostile with Hopper when I don't think she would be anymore-that feels like his projection. She and Joyce have reverted to their season 1 relationship, though they've lived together and Joyce has treated her like a daughter.

She's basically crying on the rooftop with Mike and then warning him about reality in the tub and looking sad that he's not catching her vibe before she heads to the UD lab.

She's shocked to see Max but that's it. The El we know would be collapsing into her arms in tears because of the guilt she felt for not saving her in time.

In general, she's very negative this season. Either she already understands how this scenario is going to play out, or... I don't know. But nothing about her character felt right at all.

Will, on the other hand, is more positive than he's ever been. Hopeful (because I think he and Mike have been living in the basement and it was them watching movies on Halloween) mwtfdydg is real and it happened in a 6 month window after the painting and his fail of a love confession to El, followed by her pushing him away.

If they're not already poisoned from the UD air and in a mass hallucination, I say something happened to Mike or Will or both in Nov 1986 instead of 1987.

It would make sense for a move to be made a lot sooner than 18 months, since Vecna was in a big hurry to grab all his victims in 4 and the gates are already open. Why wait?

Relating to:

-Cyrano trope ie The Painting

-Will mentioning Steve Martin in his coming out speech and Steve Martin starring in and producing the Cyrano movie Roxanne (1987)

-Halley's comet (1986) sticker in the WSQK van

So I just watched Roxanne for the first time in years, and what stood out to me this time was that Roxanne was an astronomy student there for the summer because she was trying to prove she'd discovered a comet.

The date she was waiting for to prove her theory?

"July 14th at 22:08:31 (10:08 pm) give or take 10 days."

Anyway this movie was filmed VERY shortly after the Halley's comet craze and was definitely cashing in on the renewed public interest in astronomy it caused.

Just thought it was interesting.

Bonus #1

Steve Martin starred or costarred in like 11 movies in the 1980s. One of them was Roxanne.

Another? Little Shop of Horrors.

The poster of which is in Will's room, and the movie that Tales from 85 is heavily dipping into as well ie carnivorous alien plant life.

Of potential interest- in that movie, the plant Audrey II arrived in the shop after another astronomical event. A total eclipse of the sun.

Bonus #2

I believe wholeheartedly that the entirety of season 5 is off. That they're already in a loop of wrong, illusion and/or warped memories are at play, and there is a lot of evidence to back it up.

But the hardest part of this for me has always been that none of the characters ever seemed to catch the glitches. Lucas does wonder momentarily if they're being messed with, but he's quickly distracted from that with news that Max might be returning to her body.

What I'm talking about is Neo and the cat in the Matrix. The Truman Show with a falling spotlight. Dark City where the hero watches the buildings change shape. The Freddy/Inception signs that you're in a dream of it all.

You see where I'm going with this? No member of the party is the mythological Cassandra telling them something is wrong and not being believed.

Joyce, who notices magnets and follows up on unusual hunches, never seems to figure it out. Hopper the investigator and Murray and Nancy the journalists never figure it out. Jonathon the observant photographer never figures it out. Dustin the genius gets it all wrong. Mr. Clarke doesn't even flinch at the UD trip or the bad wormhole explanation and beanstalk plan. We've got a lot of smart people there who don't seem to notice that anything is wrong with their story at all--even when it is staring them right in the face.

The audience can see the signs. The character changes. The color changes. The fake monster battle and disturbing ending. There is absolutely something going on. But when the basement door closes at the end of episode 8, no other shoe has dropped, and we're left with ambiguity and confusion. For months. A confusion that wasn't cleared up with Tales at all. Only emphasized.

We do have at least 5 of them saying something doesn't make any sense multiple times, but they never follow up on that, and choose to believe the easiest conclusions they are given. (Holly does scream none of this is real, but that is in Henry's mind, so...)

Nancy in particular surprises me by not thinking for herself. She agrees and follows up on something Mike or Dustin says. On something Steve says. She remembers the UD lab for El and dresses like a candy striper to talk to her mom, but that and shooting things are all we get of her old intelligent and curious character. She and Joyce were the main go-tos for discovering the truth, but they are both pretty distracted and emotionally compromised, so we got nothing from them.

We have a few subtle signs that are never followed through on. El looks momentarily confused when she hops from her mindscape to the middle of the road while looking for Holly. She looks down at Kali's reflection in the mindscape and makes a subtle face that could be some sort of realization. She almost has a real moment with Hopper but then a roaring sound that is never explained draws them back into the action.

Mike seems distracted and makes a lot of his famous figuring something out faces, but other than some seriously odd behavior, particularly after shock jock, we don't have any idea what he's actually thinking or feeling.

Robin, the solver of the most puzzles through this series, is put directly in the visual path of the dial color change and the tower color change, both objects she should be extremely familiar with due to her job, and she doesn't react to either.

Murray's entire character is literally brilliant, paranoid, overly suspicious conspiracy theorist and he spends the entire season just smiling goofily and delivering things to the party. He barely reacts to Joyce's insane plan that makes no sense, except to mention they need some snacks. It's very out of character for him to be that oblivious.

Will's mysterious experience with Vecna changed him, but we have no idea what he saw so we can't establish the true reasons for his reactions. Was he shown the truth and warned of the outcome if he didn't follow the script? We don't know.

And that is the most frustrating part of this. I know it's true, I even believe there will be more content, BUT I can see why it might be difficult for others.

Because no character had a deja vu cat moment. No one noticed that the people behind him were on a loop. No one noticed the fifty million exit signs that kept appearing everywhere, or all The Wall references. No one even wondered why the military had a lab in the UD that kept needing to be restocked when they didn't seem to know about Vecna. It was just there because?

Nancy should have wondered about the military during all those crawls, that's all I'm saying. But they were all wearing blinders.

No one questioned the absence of characters--and not just the physical absence but the absence of mention, because no one ever said their names even though it would have fit the story for them to at least get a passing reference. Particularly Owens, Argyle, Suzi, the deputies in every season until 5, and Max's mother.

Don't get me started on the wormhole and those journals.

So yes, the people, the objects, the relationships and the physics of the entire season was completely off and wrong. But no one noticed except the audience. And you only saw it if you were really paying attention or watched it more than once.

And even if you have a 50 page list of things you saw that were wrong on the show (and we do) none of it is conclusive enough to explain what's happening.

Which has left the show open to accusations of queerbaiting, cash-grabbing, bad AI writing, just another big show with a bad ending etc.

Let's just take a look at what their last 6 years have been like. Ignoring their writers writing or at least helping with some of these books that have come out about Dustin, Lucas, Nancy, Terry Ives etc. And the comics. And the games. They had delays with covid and the writer's strike, but they were obviously still very busy

2020-2021 they at least outlined 5 while finishing season 4 (but they probably wrote it, let's be honest)

2022 season 4 is released

2022-2023 they start work on Tales (with Shawn and everyone connected to it, they didn't just hand it off) And they have obviously been working on multiple seasons of it to have at least season 2 ready.

2023 Kate is working on TFS play while reporting to the brothers-they are very involved in that. It comes out at London's West End (in 2025 it comes out on Broadway)

2024 from January to December they are filming season 5. A year of filming with double the budget of season 4, which let's be honest, looked ten times better and made more sense than season 5. *Also, from September 2024 to Feb 2025-they are executive producers for the filming of The Buroughs. So at one point ST and TB are filming at exactly the same time in different locations.

2025 while editing, they take 5 months to executive produce SVBIGTH and then the steal your holidays to steal your joy release schedule of STs season 5 begins. They even take us to the theater.

2026- In January we get the horrible documentary that makes them look unprofessional and unprepared at best.

In Feb we get a teaser for Tales and the news they were filming TFS for Netflix

In March we get SVBIGTH which has toys related to ST in it but otherwise unclear connection.

In April we get Tales first two episodes in theaters for absolutely no reason, and a week later the whole show on Netflix, then less than a week after that an announcement we will get season 2 of Tales in "The Fall"

In May we not only have The Boroughs (ST but with senior citizens is how it's been described) but now there is also an interview with the brothers for the first time since the documentary came out and they gave that week of HORRIBLE interviews.

If TFS doesn't pop up tomorrow, June would make the most sense based on their schedule of dropping something to remind us of their existence every single month since the bad finale.

July, as we know, is the 10 year anniversary of the first season of Stranger Things. It's when the DVD set comes out. It's when certain merchandise and the script book will be available. A lot of things are happening in that month to solidify 5 as an actual season that really happened even though it was the worst and didn't answer any questions at all.

But now they're saying Tales 2 is coming in the Fall and I'm confused because in spite of the interviews, the characters were not acting like themselves. They were acting like idealized or larger than life versions of themselves through someone else's perspective. And there were several visual and behavioral references to season 5, in spite of it being set in season 2.5. All of that led me to believe it was part of cg. And I'll admit, all signs were pointing to July for a reveal. Now I have no idea what's going on.

But I do know something is. Because this monthly bs that's happening? It feels like a "Countdown" (name of Tales last episode). The entire world of Hawkins is wrong, and they're just barreling ahead anyway, not giving any direct answers or anyone time to catch their breath. Keeping everyone trapped in their world for an undisclosed amount of time without any solid hints it will actually lead anywhere in the end.

"None of this makes any g**da** sense."

Why push them out so fast if there isn't a reason for it? Cash grabs don't work like this. Watcher and merch fatigue is more likely, especially with the GA, if you don't give them time to miss something.

For us, the actors say let it go every time they have an interview or conference chat. But how can we stop obsessing if ST related content won't go away? lol

It struck me that the last scene of Tales before it flipped to the UD was a close up of El's face looking into the camera. I found that odd. Especially since they'd been giving Nikki her new character and were in her garage etc. It got me thinking about whose story this was. I've believed it was Will's or even Mike's...but as a thought experiment, what if it were El's?

There's no denying that things were really great for her in animated Hawkins.

Hopper was protective, but not too even though the lab JUST left, allowing her more freedom than he did in 2 or 3. Letting her take Mike to school every morning for 5 weeks. Letting her wander around town. And in the end, since he never discovered what happened, he even extended her curfew.

Max was always on her side, even though they wouldn't be friends until they bonded over stupid boys in 3. She even got in a fight with Lucas over them not giving El a choice, and she's the one who told Mike to take her to the winter festival. She had her back and always asked her what she thought they should do.

Mike was the almost too perfect boyfriend. Always staring at her dreamily and holding her hand. Waking up 30 minutes early every day to see her. Planning to take her to the arcade and the mall, which would never happen, and focused on her new experiences like cheese fries, and her welfare above anything else. He was also cautious of Hopper in a way he wasn't until 3 when Hopper threatened him (remember he screamed at him at the end of 2 and was incredibly disrespectful and mocking in 3). But the facial expressions and gestures he usually gave to Will, asking if he was okay, standing close to him and touching whenever possible, holding his hand in comfort, staring at him and apologizing without gaslighting etc? That he gave exclusively to El in Tales (apart from a small jealous about Nikki outburst) He still couldn't say he loved her, but he showed her, so she knew.

Will was happy and strong on his own instead of being connected to Mike's hip. Will the Wise was replaced by Will the paladin and future storyteller. He wanted to be the DM. He instantly made friends with Nikki, who could arguably be a more confident, female version of Mike. Most importantly, he looked pleased to see El and Mike snuggled together. He even broke rules and put himself in danger to get Mike's walkie talkie-at first just so El wouldn't worry about Mike. Not that he was ever outwardly jealous, or not close to El (though they barely had scenes together) but it felt different. Mike and Will didn't seem as necessary to each other's story for the very first time in ST. Instead, everything was El.

There was no lab or military chasing her. No references to her being a monster. Everyone asked for and listened to her opinion, and once when Mike didn't? He apologized instantly and promised to communicate better. And she was able to communicate that she didn't appreciate him acting like Papa well before season 4.

Nikki appreciated what she'd been through, empathized with her and included her in her birthday.

Her powers were off the charts. She tossed entire trees into food marts, ripped open monsters, caused a tornado inside a building from a distance which showed incredible control, and killed the queen while simultaneously closing the gate. All without really needing her batteries charged. In fact, no one ever mentioned it as being an issue.

She wasn't conflicted or complex. She didn't have trauma flashbacks like she did even in season 1. She wasn't dealing with the anger/love aspects of her powers. She was just sweet and cute and able to speak in complete sentences, adored by her father and boyfriend and incredibly powerful without consequence. There were no shades of gray in her character. She was the too good to be true super girl who giggled happily at the orange on her fingers while traumatizing an office building full of adults.

When you think about it, other than the plant monsters, that was kind of El's dream scenario. Accepted for who she was, loved and part of the party and a family. Mike all to herself.

Rewatching season 2 (yes again) to get ready for tomorrow and I don't care what anyone says, this is one of my favorite seasons. I could write an essay on Murray's speech about the curtain and everything in his house. Will and protective Mike going crazy together. Max accepting the risks with Lucas. Bob Newby, every scene. Will's acting. Even Dustin with Dart and the train tracks chat with Steve.

How can anyone not love season 2?

So the 4th wall is when the actor stares at you through the camera as if talking to you. We got so much of that in 5 it was ridiculous.

The 5th wall is when the actors and directors break character or appear to interact with their characters and creations. Like Monty Python and Holy Grail at the end. Like Deadpool referring to Ryan Reynolds, or the Freddy Kruger mockumentary horror. And...I think we've sort of had that with the Duffers being Vecna'd and Finn being weird etc.

The 6th wall is where you feel like you might be a subject instead of a spectator. Like there might be no difference between the fictional world and the real world. Like we're going a little crazy together.

The 7th wall break is a total shared reality, where you feel like the show has hacked your brain. "It was a 7"

It's been kind of quiet around ST cg lately, but now the promo for the animated show is making it "snow" with static, pulling out some 3D snowball fights and having Steve and Dustin crack our screens with that truck ride... It doesn't fit the little D&D campaign they've shown so far with the leaks and the first 2 episodes. If that was the way they'd been going they would have made the theater showing 80s style 3D complete with those silly glasses. (I really do wonder why they didn't do that...)

But it does fit cg and the continuation of the 6-7th wall break.

You know what I thought of as soon as I saw this? Yes. The For Will mixtape. And the tape Jonathon played for Will with the Clash on it. And the tape Jonathon made for Will when he came back from the UD and was in the hospital. Technically, Jonathon was the deejay long before Robin came around. His music saved Will before in the UD (he kept singing it to himself)

And the fact that Charlie said in an interview that Jonathon helps his brother get something he wants, and then in season 5 they never actually spoke to each other once. (Unless he just meant he gave him his supportive hug after coming out...that seems pretty anti-climactic since he'd already said in 4 he supported him no matter what, but I guess it could be true)

To me? It goes along with The Fall t-shirt and that tweet the writer's sent ages ago, that I believe they mentioned WASN'T about a romantic couple? Maybe I'm remembering that incorrectly.

What if the tape is from Jonathon? What if it does have something to do with time loops and a sacrifice?

What if Vecna showed him Jonathon dying and that's why Will gave up? What if Jonathon helps Will get what/who he wants (Mike), by helping to set things right?

What if that's why Jonathon seems so suspiciously happy in the epilogue and that's why you never see the brothers having a one on one talk in season 5? (Seriously, why are they actively kept away from each other in the last season? It's weird when they were so canonically close and Will is going through so much.)

-Jonathon and Will never had a single conversation. Joyce never talked to Jonathon either. The guy all about family spent most of his time with Steve.

-Nancy never had a single conversation with Steve. She was irritated or tempted by his constant leaning and posturing, but instead she told Jonathon how she felt about Steve, and Jonathon told Steve while they were strolling on another planet. So badass Nancy didn't get the chance to have any closure with that boy she loved kissing in the school bathroom until Barb died and everything changed. Jonathon got that instead.

-Will and El, once again, never had a conversation with each other. Beyond, "Max." "I'm here, Will" etc. So this twin/parallel mutual love for Mike thing they'd been dealing with the entire series? it didn't matter. They didn't have time for it. They had too many new or returning cast members to waste their time on it.

-We never found out what Vecna showed Will. Or how Will survived the supposed death of Vecna and the "MF" Or if Will still had abilities, since he was irrevocably changed.

-El and Max never had a moment alone. Their friendship, and what El did to save her, and how she felt when she couldn't find her? That was never addressed. There wasn't time. She had to hang out with...Will and Vickie instead? (El never got to talk to anyone but Mike, Hopper and Kali really)

-Mike stopped having ideas and making plans after Sorcerer. Joyce had a plan. Lucas and Erica had plans. Steve and Dustin had a plan. Mike just stood there not touching Will and asking for a flare gun. So he wasn't the leader. He wasn't honest with Will or El about his feelings. And his flare gun didn't deliver the killing blow. In the end, he wasn't even a paladin, or a very good friend because he sent Will to Vallaki (still not over that)

Bonus facts: A few things that were missing. Owens. The deputies. Any explanation about why there was a lab in the UD without them knowing about Vecna or that they were in a wormhole...did they know they were supposed to be in a wormhole? Any explanation about why El was the only one they were interested in. Any explanation about how the townspeople were cool with being in a military quarantine for 18 months. Any explanation about how Hopper got his job back, how Ted and Karen survived and if the rest of the Turnbow family ever made it out of that barn.