"Romance is only good if it has smut"
You OBVIOUSLY have not read Crooked Kingdom, where Kaz's lips brush Inej's neck, he has a panic attack, leaves, starts a fight with his ENTIRE GANG and WINS
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@promethia-tenk
"Romance is only good if it has smut"
You OBVIOUSLY have not read Crooked Kingdom, where Kaz's lips brush Inej's neck, he has a panic attack, leaves, starts a fight with his ENTIRE GANG and WINS
@promethia-tenk

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It's sometimes hilarious to me that Charles's face is as expressive as it is and he still seems to honestly think Edwin has no idea he gets sad sometimes. Like honey your heart is lying out there on your sleeve with a magnifying glass tied to your wrist for viewing convenience. That is a LOT of trust to put in someone's autism
@mirellapryce
asdkdhsfjlg
Edwin, mentally checking Charles’s face against his internal emoji-diagram, mumbling to himself while writing in his notebook: This certainly looks like the frowny face labelled ‘sad’ but I suppose Charles would know better than I. Noted
Charles, later: Edwin! Bedside manners, you almost made that girl cry!
Edwin, bewildered: But last week you said that expression was ‘fine brills face’????
@mirrorleaf and I have finally, at great personal expense (of the mental, emotional, and spiritual sort), posted the second chapter of what I think I can safely call our magnum opus on Edwin Payne:
Edwin the Pagan
Edwin tries to take off his shirt and accidentally unravels his whole existence.
Now longer than its predecessor fic despite being nowhere near done! Please read it; I am a shell of a human being.
We done a fic 🤗
@promethia_tenk and I have (for many months) been working on a sequel to The Song of Rowland, and we have finally posted chapter 1:
Edwin the Pagan
Summary: Edwin tries to take off his shirt and accidentally unravels his whole existence.
Or: In which two people who don’t write smut said: ‘You know what would be the perfect vehicle for exploring all of Edwin’s issues? Wedding night fic.’
Notes: Companion piece/sequel to The Song of Rowland. This time it’s Edwin’s turn in the wringer.
(Too late for the anniversary, too early for Paineland week, but well-timed for pride. Here, have some traumatised gay ghosts in love! 😘)
Me looking around my apartment, of which I am the sole inhabitant, with deep distaste: 'the living are messy.'

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Edwin Payne is a subtle representation of a male/masc-presenting victim of sexual assault and harassment.
His death, to me, is an allegory for an incident of sexual assault, as well as a hate crime. The main perpetrator, Simon, was a boy who believed Edwin was snubbing his advances, whether or not Edwin was actually aware advances were being made. The secondary perpetrators were boys who committed violence against Edwin because of his perceived sexuality and feminine mannerisms. They steal him from his bed in the middle of the night, while he is in his underclothes, to bring him to a secluded location. Edwin is then pinned down on his back while gagged. Just a lot of evident parallels to more literal incidents.
Many decades later, Edwin is once again dealing with sexual harassment from a man that feels rejected. The Cat King, despite his claims of being “fair and consensual” attempts to commit the most literal form of sexual coercion. He attempts to exchange Edwin’s freedom for a sexual favor, and when that doesn’t immediately work, he assigns Edwin a task that is acknowledged to be almost impossible. Of course, he leaves the option of sleeping with him still on the table, knowing Edwin is made unsafe by staying in Port Townsend for too long because he’s on the run. The Cat King also appears several more times to harass Edwin with sexual comments, pressure to take the first offer, and a memorable appearance in episode 6 where he threatens to “stop playing nice.”
Monty also kisses Edwin without permission and turns to passive-aggression when Edwin doesn’t return his affection. But, I don’t think it’s shown to be as impactful as the other two examples.
I will note Edwin seems to forgive all of the above characters, but he also seems to see forgiveness for those who have wronged him as some form of self-empowerment. I don’t know if that’s necessarily heathy thinking on his part. I might make a different post about that someday.
Fandom doesn't talk about this enough (or the similar sexual assault undertones to Crystal's storyline). One beat I find particularly chilling in this way is when the Cat King forcibly kisses Monty, which 1) is pointedly telling Edwin that he's being watched, including in very private moments (and look how Jenny reacted to similar information) 2) demonstrating that TCK is not above just taking and 3) is, like, stealing Edwin's kiss through the transitive property (which he immediately afterwords tries to do in a much more literal sense--putting himself in Monty's place: 'they say the second is always better'). Utter creep.
Edwin to Crystal "If Charles is moving you, it is always in your best interest to go. I understand why you might not like to be manhandled but trust that it's for your own good and he wouldn't do it unless necessary."
I think a lot about the scene with the boys trying to find the book in Case of the Dandelion Shrine, but I don't think I'd thought enough about when and where it takes place.
The boys get more and more disconnected from each other during the first few episodes but they are in the office away from Crystal's gaze for about 90 seconds before they start acting like this:
"You'll rip your arm clean off. Stop that now! ...I'm not as quick as you, but I am here to help. Honestly, Edwin, can't you tell me what really happened with the Cat King?"
"Right. Fine, then. How about this? Take a deep breath. And put your big brain to work, 'cause the answer's gotta be in there somewhere."
Like... they are Home and In Private for barely a minute before they relax into this dynamic, which is, notably, not the one they show in canon-era, most of the time - but it is the one that we're shown in the pilot is 'normal' for them.
The Charles who coaxes Edwin to share, stops his self-harm, guides him through breathing, praises him to calm him, that's not the Charles that shows up in front of Crystal (or even Niko). But it absolutely is the Charles who bounces around Edwin trying to coax him into playing - er, boxing - to nudge him into new things and to keep him safe and to have fun with him, the Charles who specifically selects a "gentleman's sport" to try to suit Edwin's tastes and then gives puppy eyes knowing full well Edwin couldn't deny them even if he'd chosen MMA.
The Edwin who follows Charles's guidance, lets himself be soothed, follows care-related orders promptly with only a minimum of brattiness, that's not the one lashing out and bristling his authority in Port Townsend. But it absolutely is the one who caves to bouncing-Charles's puppy-dog eyes instantaneously, who barely bonks Charles with his fist and then raises his eyebrows proudly anticipating Charles's praise for the bonk, the one who lets Charles shove him to knock him from freeze into flight and throw him all the way over a desk because if Charles is doing it that means it's to keep him safe.
And, incidentally, it's also a lot closer to how they are in Hell. Even in literal Hell they're closer to their norm because at least they're in private.
We also see little bits of it every other time they snatch a few moments of privacy, even though it's way toned down outside of Home; Charles spilling about kissing like five minutes after doing it, Edwin trying to come out and then doing so, "best person I know", "...what are you worried about, then?", etcetera.
They want to tell each other every thought they have the moment they have it; they want to take care of each other. They're just only capable of it when they're alone and safe and have time away from judging eyes.
And, like... when we recognize that this is their norm, so much so that they go back into it the moment they are in their Space, like, quite honestly, no fucking wonder they're both crashing out the whole time they're in Port Townsend!
Edwin's clearly been outsourcing a lot of his emotional regulation to Charles, which means with Charles unable to provide it, he's got nothing to keep him stable.
Meanwhile, Charles is dependent on that role for his own emotional regulation, so he freaks out when he can't do it. (This is very clearly established: "What good am I even doing? I couldn't stop Devlin from murdering his family over and over. I can't stop Crystal from hurting. I can't stop whatever is going on with you." He explicitly crashes out because he is unable to "keep the spirits up". There are other factors, absolutely - but it's stated pretty clearly that if he were able to successfully fill his normal role right now, he'd be able to manage the other shit.)
We love a pair of deeply codependent lads whose codependency is backfiring because they can't go home and metaphorically cuddle on their tiny tiny loveseat <3
I focused here on Charles - in private - regulating Edwin and being regulated by doing so, because that was the main focus of the main scene I was thinking about, but I do want to emphasize that Edwin also regulates Charles (and thereby self-regulates).
The best we see Charles doing, in Townsend, is thanks to the “best person I know” speech, Edwin putting Charles back together. The worst we see him is when Edwin tries to help him calm down on the cliff and he shrugs Edwin off because Not Now. He needs Edwin to help him regulate as much as Edwin needs Charles. It’s a two-way street.
Also! Something to be said about how Charles acts chill and calm about Edwin’s self-harm in front of Crystal (burning himself getting Becky’s shoes, slamming his wrist on the pillar), but the second they’re alone, even though Edwin’s doing something a lot less visibly damaging/dangerous, Charles immediately takes the opportunity to go “I think the fuck not Edwin stop that this instant”.
You know, another notable scene of Charles not responding as he usually would to Edwin's distress is the 'it has to matter' scene. I've seen people note the way that Charles just sort of stands back there, looking concerned, not looking surprised, but not actually doing anything. Which . . . is weird, when you know how they are in private. Narratively, of course, it provides space for Crystal to step in with an olive branch and establish a truce between them, but I don't think I've ever seen a decent explanation of why he doesn't respond there before this.
I think a lot about the scene with the boys trying to find the book in Case of the Dandelion Shrine, but I don't think I'd thought enough about when and where it takes place.
The boys get more and more disconnected from each other during the first few episodes but they are in the office away from Crystal's gaze for about 90 seconds before they start acting like this:
"You'll rip your arm clean off. Stop that now! ...I'm not as quick as you, but I am here to help. Honestly, Edwin, can't you tell me what really happened with the Cat King?"
"Right. Fine, then. How about this? Take a deep breath. And put your big brain to work, 'cause the answer's gotta be in there somewhere."
Like... they are Home and In Private for barely a minute before they relax into this dynamic, which is, notably, not the one they show in canon-era, most of the time - but it is the one that we're shown in the pilot is 'normal' for them.
The Charles who coaxes Edwin to share, stops his self-harm, guides him through breathing, praises him to calm him, that's not the Charles that shows up in front of Crystal (or even Niko). But it absolutely is the Charles who bounces around Edwin trying to coax him into playing - er, boxing - to nudge him into new things and to keep him safe and to have fun with him, the Charles who specifically selects a "gentleman's sport" to try to suit Edwin's tastes and then gives puppy eyes knowing full well Edwin couldn't deny them even if he'd chosen MMA.
The Edwin who follows Charles's guidance, lets himself be soothed, follows care-related orders promptly with only a minimum of brattiness, that's not the one lashing out and bristling his authority in Port Townsend. But it absolutely is the one who caves to bouncing-Charles's puppy-dog eyes instantaneously, who barely bonks Charles with his fist and then raises his eyebrows proudly anticipating Charles's praise for the bonk, the one who lets Charles shove him to knock him from freeze into flight and throw him all the way over a desk because if Charles is doing it that means it's to keep him safe.
And, incidentally, it's also a lot closer to how they are in Hell. Even in literal Hell they're closer to their norm because at least they're in private.
We also see little bits of it every other time they snatch a few moments of privacy, even though it's way toned down outside of Home; Charles spilling about kissing like five minutes after doing it, Edwin trying to come out and then doing so, "best person I know", "...what are you worried about, then?", etcetera.
They want to tell each other every thought they have the moment they have it; they want to take care of each other. They're just only capable of it when they're alone and safe and have time away from judging eyes.
And, like... when we recognize that this is their norm, so much so that they go back into it the moment they are in their Space, like, quite honestly, no fucking wonder they're both crashing out the whole time they're in Port Townsend!
Edwin's clearly been outsourcing a lot of his emotional regulation to Charles, which means with Charles unable to provide it, he's got nothing to keep him stable.
Meanwhile, Charles is dependent on that role for his own emotional regulation, so he freaks out when he can't do it. (This is very clearly established: "What good am I even doing? I couldn't stop Devlin from murdering his family over and over. I can't stop Crystal from hurting. I can't stop whatever is going on with you." He explicitly crashes out because he is unable to "keep the spirits up". There are other factors, absolutely - but it's stated pretty clearly that if he were able to successfully fill his normal role right now, he'd be able to manage the other shit.)
We love a pair of deeply codependent lads whose codependency is backfiring because they can't go home and metaphorically cuddle on their tiny tiny loveseat <3
Meanwhile, Charles is dependent on that role for his own emotional regulation, so he freaks out when he can't do it.
Thinking seriously for perhaps the first time about the fact that Charles' sense of security is dependent on his ability to emotionally regulate the people around him because, of course, the biggest source of danger in his life was his inability to regulate his father. (This makes it sound like it was Charles' fault that he couldn't make his father happy, but you get my point.) Which means that, in a very literal and direct sense, making Edwin feel safe makes Charles feel safe. And Edwin, who is 1) dramatic in his displays of distress and 2) very pliable under normal conditions (at least for Charles), is sort of an ideal subject for Charles' ministrations because he provides basically constant feedback that Charles is doing his self-appointed job well and is, therefore, safe (and also needed and thus secure).
The codependency is real, and it's spectacular.
i want to know what the fuck was going on in the writers room when they decided that Edwin selected, read and enjoyed Valley of the Dolls enough to loan it to his first gay flirtation partner. the more you think about him the less normal he gets

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my friend is reading Valley of the Dolls and sharing snippets with me and i have never been so haunted in my life. not to make everything about Dead Boy Detectives but why the fuck did Edwin read Valley of the Dolls. what the fuck was going through his mind while reading it. what possibly possessed him to read it, in its entirety, and then enjoy it enough to RECOMMEND IT TO THE CROW BOY HE WAS IN A GAY SITUATIONSHIP WITH?!
her: 'can you even feel that'
boy who just had a breakdown about hating being dead about to be reminded of the fact continuously just so that he can experience something closer to the life he wishes he'd once had: 'no it doesn't matter'
Not to be forgetting Crystal going 'I just want something real' and then proceeding to make out with a ghost. Perfectly matched messes, those two.
Ink and watercolour art inspired by the absolutely amazing Dead Boy Detectives fic The Song of Rowland by @mirrorleaf and @promethia-tenk.
His faaaaaace. I cannot. Thank you so much for this incredible artwork. All the texture and detail in the watercolor is just beautiful, but mostly omg, his faaaaaaaace <3
When I say that Elisi and I killed ourselves writing this thing, I wish I was exaggerating more than I actually am. But anyways: worth it. Cannot believe it attracted an artist to make something like this.
I think Edwin would love Tetris for Fun Puzzle Challenge reasons (and because let's be honest the falling blocks are a GREAT stim.)
On the other hand, I think he'd hate Pac Man because the entire premise of the game is you run -> something catches you -> it eats you
Today (whatever day you see this is today) I thought for fun we could share the lines/scenes from Dead Boy Detectives that we just cannot stop chewing on - not favorites necessarily but ones that you just cannot stop thinking about
For me my chewtoy is Charles suddenly snapping “You’ll rip your arm clean off. Stop that now!” and Edwin immediately obeying
It instantly shifts the power dynamic of the scene - before then, Edwin has been condescendingly ordering Charles around, and then Charles snaps a command and from that point in the scene Charles is in charge (telling Edwin to take deep breaths and use his big brain), in a sort of… protectively and lovingly firm caretaker role. And Edwin accepts that power shift without hesitation or complaint, no attempt to either assert authority (as he had been doing earlier) or resist authority (as he does with anyone other than Charles)
And it’s a pretty sharp snap, which means the only time we’re really shown Charles being at all aggressive towards Edwin without being completely and utterly in crash-out mode is in order to protect Edwin from himself, and a clearly-long-established part of Charles’s protector role being protecting Edwin from Edwin by force if necessary just makes me kind of feral. (He also gets kinda harsh with the impatient “Great, can we go?”s when Edwin’s stalling leaving Hell, which is also protecting Edwin from Edwin, from his POV at the time.) Like, how often does it happen, that Charles has to intervene to prevent Edwin from harming himself? And it’s not just him that’s adopted that as part of his role, Edwin also clearly accepts that as part of Charles’s role, and and and
Anyway, I could write a twenty page essay on that line because it’s my chewtoy, but the point here isn’t my essay it’s the invitation to share your chewtoys. So what are y’all’s?
(You can of course reply or tag-comment if you’re shy/don’t want this on your blog but reblog-comments allow more conversation 😸)
Totally loving this thread.
This is a really little thing, but in the scene where Charles is trying to teach Edwin to box, when he says 'I know you don't like to try new things,' Edwin gives him this look like what are you on about? but he lets it slide. Which I think is pretty fair coming from the guy who openly mocked astrology and then just decided to learn it anyway.

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Sandman s2 spoilers:
So, I know we're not really watching Sandman because Gaiman and because the boys aren't in part one, but is anybody else going to gif Destruction of the Endless telling a sharp-cheekboned, curly-topped, one-earringed Orpheus that he doesn't even know Eurydice that well, he's just in love with the idea of the girl and the idea of love and that's why he feels the need to go rescue her from the underworld and put it next to our sharp-cheekboned, curly-topped, one-earringed Charles Rowland telling Edwin Payne that he can't really say he's in love with him back but there's no one else (no one else!) he would go to Hell for, or I am just going to have to teach myself fucking Photoshop?
Please, I don't have time to learn Photoshop. Someone just imagine this and go feral with me about it.
I watched the Doctor Who finale, and couldn't get this out of my head:
Original under the cut: