>Are we going to finish him?
Heās on his last leg. So, to be honest, I feel like with everybody heās speaking out about their own stories itās pretty much already finished, and clearly we all know he tried to go on that crazy smear campaign essentially turning all the accusations against him against me, which, I mean, was pretty nuts but if you watch it itās pretty obvious what he was trying to do, so.
>He outed someoneās sexual assault after she came out.
Yup! Well, Greg actually made sort of an underhanded joke in a video about something that he very vaguely knows about me and it seemed like he was just trying to let me know that there was more about me that he knew that he could talk about, which he, you know, has brought up before over email asking me about the abuse that I suffered in my past, and I told him that it all wasnāt true because he, you know, was clearly doing it to try to use it against me, and I am not going to be blackmailed by the things that Iāve already been through my life. Like, thatās prettyā¦ pretty nuts to assume that that would silence me. I mean, Iāve never been quiet about what Iāve been through in my life so itās just a little nutty but he does very clearly dig up peopleās pasts and look for abuse to try to use it against them because a lot of people arenāt comfortable with having their abuse stories public. Iām not really afraid of stuff like that I feel like Iāve always been pretty open with my following so that does not scare me.
[Playing video games]
>If you come out with your trauma, heās got nothing against you.
Yeah, I actually spoke to my mom about it because I didnāt really know what to do if he does ever decide to try to like publicly smear me for getting abused as a child. I donāt really know what the right course of action is. My mom just said, āhave you ever seen Eight Mile?ā You know, if thereās anything you think heās gonna throw at you just throw it out first and heās got nothing, and I feel like in a lot of ways sheās right. Though, I was never really quiet about it before.
>What happened when you were caught sneaking out?
He just tried to convince us to stay but it was pretty evident at the time that that was not a situation we needed to be in.
>He thinks because he shares way too much that no one else should have boundaries.
I believe that he over shares about himself because he gets some sort of validation from me but he is very aware that people have boundaries, and I think that thatās why he does it. So he can say that he thinks that everybody should be open but itās not typical for everybody to put, you knowāeverything thatās ever happened to them on the internet. I mean, I havenāt talked about every single thing thatās ever happened to me my whole life. I talk about important things. Iāve talked about, you know, mental health issues. Iāve talked about fear. Iāve talked about a lot of different things, soā¦
>He needs to have basic respect in the first place.
That is true. I mean, he has gone out of his way to try to out a lot of people for things that they didnāt want public so that they would stop coming out and speaking about the things that he has done, and clearly itās not working. Iāve been in contact with a lot of the girls who suffered from some of these situations and itās not really working on them either. Iām so glad for that because I can tell you from the first time that he went on a crazy smear campaign Ā about me it was terrifying. I had no idea what to do. I mean, I posted a video crying on the internet because I had asked him so many times privately to stop speaking about me, and stop using my name, and my face, and everything like that. He does not respect boundaries. He does not respect peopleās privacy. He will post your deepest darkest secrets if he has to to try to make you look bad, and for me, you know, my deepest, darkest secrets arenāt even bad things that Iāve done. Theyāre bad things that have happened to me. I really feel like I might be, you knowāit might be a better idea to just come out and speak about what happened to me as a kid before he tries to use it against me, which I donāt even know how he would try to do that or how he would try to spin it to make me look bad because I donāt think that you should ever blame a child for being abused. Itās clearly not their fault, butā¦
>Heās quite the sunshine, isnāt he?
Yeah.
>Did he ever use publicity as a threat?
So, he doesnāt ever say specifically that heās going to do things like that. I think that he just does it and itās typically whenever he feels that he is losing power in the situation or he does not have control over a situation. He will do things like that.
Yeah, he talks a lot about how heās getting death threats now because of everything thatās going on, and itās actually a classic manipulation tactic to try to play the victim and deflect blame whenever you are caught up in something.
>He wants to manipulate you so youāll stop talking about him.
Yeah, I understand that. I mean, I was very aware what he was doing even the first time when him and my best friend didnāt work out. Well, and then Lainey and my best friend didnāt work out, and he went on this crazy campaign to try to make us look awful because he knew that we were very aware of all of the crazy things that he did and requested.
>What did you mean last time you said he very different online as when heās offline?
In person, I would say heās heās very charismatic, which is, I think, very different from how he is online. Itās a little more, I think, cold online. Itās a little more calculated. If he does post things for a purpose online whereas in person he just uses a specific way of speaking to get what he wants. So, it doesnāt take as much effort
in real life to do the things that he does.
>Has he verbally and psychologically abused these girls?
Yes, absolutely. Itās actually pretty scary to see the
way that he goes about things because he does pretty much all looks a typical manipulation tactics where he starts off with very positive reinforcement and love bombing and slowly but surely he will sort of take away those things or he will sort of mistreat you if youāre not acting the way that he wants. Heāll threaten to send you home or take things away or a lot of different things. He will insult you if you are not acting the way that he wants. He will clearly publicly humiliate you if youāre not behaving in a way that he finds acceptable.
>Do you think that the judicial system is going
to be able to make a case against him?
From what I can see, Greg is very careful to make sure that he skims that legal line so that he will not get in trouble. Heās very tactical about the way that he does these things so that legally thereās nothing you can do. I can tell you Ā times a day that heās morally corrupt and, you know, he gets into peopleās heads and itās scary to be honest, but he works very very hard to make sure that he will get away with these things, and thatās why I felt like saying something publicly is really one of the best things that I could do because even if everything heās doing is not against the law per se, that doesnāt mean that itās morally right or that people should not know that heās doing these things to young women and itās not, you knowā Young women out there should have access to the information that you will manipulate his way into getting you to do things that you would have never done or say things that you would have never said before andā¦ yeah.
>How do you feel about himā
Ok, so. I didnāt ever try to sleep with that young woman. I think Iāve made that pretty clear. It was clearly a defence tactic to try to sort of deflect blame onto someone else. I was 19 years old at the time. I was also a teenager and he clearly tried to paint me as this horrible pervert, and I didnāt ever try anything with her but I was also a teenager at the time, which has no comparison to a 33 year old man or a 25 year old woman doing similar things. I know he tried really really hard to make it look like I was this awful person and Iām sure itās pretty obvious, like, how he did it and why he did it and Iām actually very glad that people can understand that Iām not that kind of person.
>He tries to punish these girls for acting ways he deems disrespectful
Thatās true. He once threatened to send the young woman that was discussed before and also Billie home because they wouldnāt babysit his children. So, itās pretty crazy.
>Does he restrict everyone from seeing their family?
He did ask one of these girls to not contact her family for an entire year and move in with him and have no contact with anybody from where she lived including myself. So he does go through and use isolation as another tactic to keep these girls, you know, within his grasp. All of its kind of messed up itās just I know that they skim the legal line. Everybody says go to the police but I plan on talking to the police and bringing them all of this information but they are very careful about whether or not they break the law so that even if Ā this all comes out one day and people realize what heās been doing to these women that he canāt actually go to jail it would just ruin his YouTube, but itās prettyā¦ [sigh]. Just the whole thingās messy.
>Let the police decide what to do.
Right, and I do plan that. Iām actually not in my hometown right now, which is the only reason they havenāt gone to the police yet, but I will be going back tomorrow but I plan on going to the police and sort of giving them all of the information that I have and ask them what I should do about it. About the videos heās made about me painting me as a pervert and about all of these things that heās doing to these young women because heās clearly got a pattern. Thereās clearly a very evident way that he goes about things, but Iāve been doing research to try to understand a little better how he does these things because itās scary and itās important that you can recognize the things that he does, or the things that anybody like that will do.
>Can you go into detail about him getting mad at the two girls not wanting to babysit?
Those are the details that I have, that they were not doing an adequate enough job to babysit so he threatened to send them both home.
>Has Greg tried to contact you since the last e-mail?
Other than the text that he posted in his video trying to smear me he has not contacted me since then, no. I know itās not their job. [As in, not the girls job to babysit]
>Did Lainey genuine want a relationship with a female?
I have no idea what Lainey really wanted.
It was a deflection tactic very clearly. I was 19 at the time, like, itās just crazy to be painted as a pervert when, first of all you didnāt do anything, but also, like, a teenager talking to a teenager. I donāt know it just doesnāt make any sense see why he was under the impression that that would work, and Iām sure that it was just an intimidation tactic to be like, hey, you know I can make you look bad, too, but itās not just me coming out and speaking about the things that theyāve done. I think that me being able to come out and say anything at all has inspired a lot of young women who have suffered through this to come forward and tell their stories and share what happened.
>Greg is scared of you.
I donāt think he should be scared of me. I think he should be scared of the truth. I have never done anything to Greg. I have never really been rude to him him. I have never really done anything to him other than being vocal about the abuse that he so clearly associates himself with. I mean, the first time he went on a smear campaign it was because I was public about some of the things that he did to my best friend even when she wasnāt because he was trying so hard to make her look awful, and I tweeted about how he tried to chain her up in the basement for a week, and make her shave her head, and dye her moss hair, or get Iām a liar tattooed on her. Even cornered her in the garage once to try to convince her to get a tattoo, and I came in shortly after and I was like, this is not okay, and thatās actually the day that we left.
>What was the last straw?
So, for a long time I really was just too scared to say anything because after I said anything about what he had done to my best friend he went on this horrible smear campaign about how Iām a criminal and a degenerate and all of these things and I was scared. I mean, he made videos about me for over a year after I had even seen him. I only met him one time. So it took a long time. I mean, itās been two years since this situation happenedātwo years in a month, I think. For a year and a half of that I was still on the front page of his YouTube, or I was in his videos, or he was referencing me in a lot of different ways, and I was scared because I donāt know what heās capable of.
>Why was Sarah under the [inaudible]?
I have no idea. Because thatās what they said.
>Standing up to Greg was very brave of you.
It took a lot. I mean, to this day it still takes a lot. Itās only been a short time since I came out and I havenāt really been sleeping because I know some of the girls that heās trying to blackmail and use information against to keep their silence and itās scary. Thatās just, like, I donāt want him to try to ruin my life because I think that itās important that people know what he does young women and what he tries to do the young women, though not always as successful as heād like to be.
>Do you think he sees himself as a normal guy?
Well, maybe he does. I feel like it would be scarier if he didnāt realize what he was doing. I feel like itās pretty impossible to be so good at manipulating and doing it to so many people without even realizing. I donāt even really think that thatās a thing.
>How does he think any of this is ok?
I really donāt know. I feel like for somebody who comes off as honest and moral and some white knight itās pretty insane. I mean, he once posted an email he got from an ex-friend of mine on Twitter, like, trying to paint me as this awful person. I had to email him and have him take it down because the e-mail was from somebody who I knew in real life but I had had to threaten to call the police on that person before for showing up at my house and it was pretty clear then that if he has anything from anyone that could put you in a bad light, whether or not that person is dangerous to you, he will use it, and he acted like he was my hero for even taking down that post. Also whenever he e-mailed me aboutāasking me about the abuse that I suffered as a child he insinuated that I should be thankful that he hasnāt said anything about that publicly online, and I know that that was just another tactic to get me to not say anything but itās pretty scary. He goes through a lot of effort to make sure these people are too scared to come forward and a lot of them are. Iām sure that thereās many people who wonāt even say anything about it because theyāre worried about what heās going to do, and I knew going into that it would be really really hard to do this and that he would go out of his way to try to make me look bad, and make videos like the one that he posted, trying to paint me as this awful person, and I knew that from experience. Heās done it to me before but I realized that it was more important to come out to speak about this so people will know whatās going on instead of avoiding it to try to save himself. I would rather you know go down in a blaze then let two, or three, or four more people go through this. Itās not right and itās not ok.
>Did you help Billie out of the manipulation and help her leave?
Yeah, I did because I noticed it a lot sooner than she did, and for a long time she was too deep it in to do anything about it, so she needed some assistance, which I feel like is pretty typical for a lot of these girls because you donāt even realize how deep in it you are until itās too late.
>Itās weird he uses Richie to attach you and then attacks you himself.
Yeah, I do think itās pretty crazy that whenever he was attacking Richie, he says that he defended me from blackmail from Richie, and thatāRichie was gonna come out and say all these bad things about me, and though Richie did threaten to blackmail me so I wouldnāt speak out about the fact that he had cheated on me so many times and he was looking for 18 year old girls, you know, Richie was trying to keep me quiet, too, using the same tactics that Greg used because heās got such a large following. He tried to defend me when Ritchie was trying to blackmail me, but now he himself is trying to blackmail all of these other girls. I think itās so twisted and crazy that he acts like heās such this, you know, righteous person for defending me at any point but he goes around and does the same thing to not only me, but to so many other people.
I didnāt offer anybody drugs. I smoke marijuana. Weāve been over that, but I donāt go around handing people drugs. I donāt even have any drugs. I mean how was I even gonna get these drugs if I was locked in his house. Thatās what I want to know. Well, I wasnāt locked in. Clearly I could have left because I did.
Yeah, no. I didnāt. Not a thing. I never hit on Sarah.
She [Billie] has very much separated herself from this situation and sheās got no interest in diving back into it because clearly they will never leave her alone.
>What other red flags did you notice?
Itās prettyāitās, like, typical language. I mean, he will offer financial gain or financial loss. He will insult you, or make fun of you, or try to make you feel like youāre doing something wrong if youāre not acting the way he wants you to. Itās a lot of different things. If you look up just manipulation tactics, which I was earlier today actually, itās pretty point-blank everything that he does. Victim-blaming, deflection, all of those sorts of things. Itās pretty cut and
dry.
>Did he write your visit off for taxes?
I believe he did. I know that he made a video with me and thatās normally all he needs to write off stuff in taxes, so even in his vide he said that he paid for my tickets. Itās pretty typical for him to write things like that off on those taxes. So, again, just another way to try to make me look like I was doing something that was wrong, I guess.
>Question about how Billie is doing
Sheās good. Billieās actually great. Sheās really happy now. Sheās been working a lot on YouTube channel and trying out new things and sheās really a lot happier than she was. Itās actually kind of great to see her doing so well because for a long time she wasnāt for obvious reasons.
>Billieās flourishing.
She is! Sheās living her best life these days. Her best life.
>Are you and Billie working?
Actually, I have an interview on Tuesday for a new job, which is very exciting and hopefully they donāt Google me right now because clearly Gregās off the handle. Iād be pretty upset.
The last time that he contacted her [Billie] was not ten months ago. It was much more recent than that but, you know. Whatever.
>Why does he keep contacting her?
Heās obsessed. He says things like he has dreams that wonāt go away, and, you know, things like that. He once called me and essentially spoke to me non-stop for about an hour just about howāwhat started off, oh, Lainey misses Billie, and Lainey needs closure, and then he pretty quickly went into, like, Lainey has dreams about her all the time. Pretty quickly into, oh, I have dreams about her and I canāt get her out of my head. So, he was using Lainey to try to say sheās the one who needed something but yeah. Itās clearly him because he only talked about himself in the end.
>Do you know more women will be coming forward?
Truthfully, I hope that they do but I know that not everybody is willing to go through what Iām already going through to try and take him down. Itās pretty scary especially when you are a young woman to have you know a 33 year old man trying to essentially defame you. I mean, itās terrifying for me and Iām a lot older now than I was the first time.
Greg said a lot about my best friend cheating but that never happened. Not a real thing.
>Has Lainey ever talked bad about Greg?
Yes? Though not publicly.
Yes, I was in contact with that young woman. And she contacted me, so it was direct.
I donāt think that they claimed her on their taxes.
I am going to go to the police and bring them all of the information that I have but they are very careful about skimming that legal line so I donāt know that they will do anything about it but I will be giving them all of that information just to make sure that they are aware.
>Heās the Youtube version of R. Kelly
I feel like Iāve seen it a lot. Thatās funny.
We never encouraged anybody to starve themselves. Billie and I have never had an eating disorder. Weāve never been diagnosed with an eating disorder or treated for an eating disorder. Iām 130 pounds right now at 5ā6ā. I mean, by no means underweight Iāve been essentially this weight since high school, so, you know. It was pretty much just a part of the initial smear campaign him saying that we starve ourselves and weāve got all of these issues, but it was never a real thing, which my mom tweets about a lot actually. Every time my mom sees me eating sheāll tweet a picture of it because there have been so many rumors about me having an eating disorder because of Greg.
>Is there anything you havenāt said because youāre scared?
There are things that I am not going to share because it has been requested of me not to share but, no. Thereās no information that I have about them pertaining to me specifically that I have not at least tried to share.
>It can mentally screw with you.
Right. Well, it was pretty crazy for a couple months having my whole feed just being like, oh, stop starving yourselfā¦
[irrelevant talk]
I donāt mind you asking any specific questions. There are just some questions that I donāt really have a clear answer to. I do not know every inner working of their marriage or what they talk about in private, so thereās only so much I can speak about truthfully, and I never have any intention of misrepresenting myself or them.
>Is there anything about Lainey that would surprise us and that we should be aware of?
I donāt really know that thereās anything that would surprise you about her. She is pretty similar to her online personality in real life.
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