so i see you've deleted all the posts where ppl came at you for not knowing that ancient egyptians are black and that modern egyptians aren't real egyptians? it's us sweetie, we are of the egyptian african descent and you are the result of colonization (:
Iâm honestly so tired of entertaining these âargumentsâ. You are disgusting.
I donât understand how anyone can come up to me and tell me my Egyptian blood is âdilutedâ and barely there. I donât understand how someone who has no relation to Masr, someone who has never stepped foot into Egypt can sit down and tell me that they are more Egyptian than I am. Please explain to me why someone in America has a claim to Egypt, to my heritage, to my blood and people while I donât. Iâm not denying that Ancient Egypt is an African civilisation because we are literally in North Africa Iâm disagreeing with the claim that Af-Americans have a right to AE and theincredibly ignorant idea that contemporary Egyptians are not the actual descendents of ancient Egyptians. The theory of the âindo-Ayrab Arabs making us whiteâ is also bullshit. Our ethnicity has not changed. At all.
You can be proud that Egypt is an African civilisation; you can be proud about Ancient Egypt, you can go learn about and explore Egypt, but do not claim Egypt and do not speak over a native Egyptian when we are speaking about our identity, country, etc. There is a huge difference between sheer ignorance, as youâre displaying, and wanting to know what Egyptians âareâ. I understand the whole ~race conservatory~ thing, but to attack native Egyptians out of your own insecurities and ego is disgusting. Â
You are literally erasing my connection to my own land and replacing yourself in place of modern day Egyptians, which honestly, if you could even use Wikpedia would fucking tell you that âthe vast majority of the population of Egypt consists of ethnic Egyptiansâ ethnic Egyptiansâdid you catch that? Did you read that bit that I copied and pasted right off of fucking Wikipedia that destroys your entire goddamn argument of modern-day Egyptians having âdilutedâ blood and not having a fucking right to our heritage? I sure did.Â
basara7a, when people try out the argument that modern-day Egyptians are the result of colonisation and that our blood is âdilutedâ, as another anon kindly mentioned yesterday, by foreign rulers they are literally showcasing their ignorance to me and letting me know that they know nothing about AE and Egypt. Bas Iâm so sick of people coming into my ask, barraging and bombarding me, trying to tell me they know more about my genetic make-up, my heritage, my fucking country when this information is literally so basic you can Wikipedia it.
Letâs go. You want to do this? Yalla, letâs do this.
Basic geographical shit: Egypt is in North Africa borders SW Asia (the Levant/Middle East). Specifically, Egypt borders Palestine, Libya, and Sudan. Our coastlines are both the Red and Mediterranean Sea and of course we have the Nile that flows throughout Egypt and 10 other African countries (Tanzania, Uganda, Rwanda, Burundi, Congo-Kinshasa, Kenya, Ethiopia, Eritrea, South Sudan, Sudan). Basic geographical shit about AE: âMost participants concluded that the Ancient Egyptian population was indigenous to the Nile Valley, and was made up of people from north and south of the Sahara who were differentiated by their color. The current position of modern scholarship is that the Egyptian civilization was an indigenous Nile Valley development.â
Basic information about AE culture and whatever / Stuff about Egypt and more info
Do you know how big Egypt is? âWith over 88 million inhabitants, Egypt is the most populous country in North Africa and the Arab World, the third-largest in Africa, and the fifteenth-most populous in the world.âÂ
Over 88 million inhabitants. Repeat that with me: over 88 million inhabitants. How quickly do think it takes to change 88,000,000+ peoplesâ genetic makeup? Iâd say it takes a long time and that you wouldnât be able to possibly reach every single one of us. However we were ruled by Greeks, Romans, etc so I can see why youâd be confused: âDue to its geographical location at the crossroads of several major cultural areas, Egypt has experienced a number of foreign invasions during historical times, including by the Canaanites (Hyksos), the Libyans, the Nubians, the Assyrians, the Babylonians, the Persians, the Macedonian Greeks, the Romans (Byzantium in late antiquity/early Middle Ages), the Arabs, the Ottoman Turks, the French and the Britishâ and yet: âA 2005/6Â bioarchaeological study on the dental morphology of ancient Egyptians by Prof. Joel Irish shows dental traits characteristic of indigenous North Africans and to a lesser extent Southwest Asian and southern European populations:
Thus, despite increasing foreign influence after the Second Intermediate Period, not only did Egyptian culture remain intact (Lloyd, 2000a), but the people themselves, as represented by the dental samples, appear biologically constant as wellâŚ
Wow. Take that in. Take that in, Iâll give you a few seconds. Crazy, isnât it? Studies that actually prove that modern day Egyptians are the descendants of our own ancestors. I know, you can take a breath before we keep going.
Here are some demographics and research about Egyptians, i.e. here is proof that Egyptians are in fact, ethnically Egyptians and that our DNA did not change due to foreign rulers x and x
There was a point where researchers and scientists actually went ahead and did genetic make-up testing on modern day Egyptians and mummies: âBlood typing and DNA sampling on ancient Egyptian mummies is scant; however, blood typing of dynastic mummies found ABO frequencies to be most similar to modern Egyptians and some also to Northern Haratin populations. ABO blood group distribution shows that the Egyptians form a sister group to North African populations, including Berbers Imazighen, Nubians and Canary Islandersâ
Scientists from U of Cairo also tested DNA from the remains of pyramid workers (from 2600 BC) and ~found~ that the DNA of ancient Egyptians matches that of modern Egyptians. PBS made a documentary featuring the information. So there goes that argument that Egyptians, through foreign rulers and intermarriage became âless Egyptianâ and that our genetic make-up changed and our blood become âdilutedâ.
So what are Egyptiansâ make-up? What are our genetics? Well, hereâs Wikipedia coming to the rescue again!! âThe genetic history of the demographics of Egypt reflects Egyptâs geographical location at the crossroads of several major cultural areas: Northeast Africa, the Sahara, Sub-Saharan Africa, the Middle East, and the Mediterranean.â Who would have thought? Our location actually influences our DNA. Insane, I know.
*references for above: x, x, x, x, and x
So âwhatâ are contemporary Egyptians? Well, as Wikipedia also informs us: âIn general, various DNA studies have found that the gene frequencies of present Egyptian populations are intermediate between those of the Middle East, the Horn of Africa, southern Europe and Sub-Saharan Africa, though NRY frequency distributions of the modern Egyptian population appear to be much more similar to those of the Middle East than to any Sub-Saharan African or European population, suggesting a much larger Middle Eastern genetic component.â Do I need to summarise this? I feel like I donât.
So, wait, then why do Egyptians look African? Well, itâs because we are African! We are literally in Africa! We are indigenous to NA and as mentioned above, the Nile Valley. We have always been Egyptians. Nothing has changed much expect for some things, like our culture. Egypt identifies as an Arab nation and Deena has summed up how Egyptians came to embrace and identify as Arabs and Egypt in regards to Arabisation and the spread of Islam but hereâs a post explaining why some Egyptians, notably Coptics, reject the Arab identity and maintain that they are simply Egyptians, which is perfectly fine! Who am I to create someone elseâs identity?Â
But letâs also take a moment to learn what is an Arab. Arab is a political, cultural, and linguistic term, not an ethnic one. When did Egypt begin identifying as Arab? During the 1950s as a resistance to Britâs colonalism when Gamal Abdel Nasser came into leadership and the pan-Arabism movement began to take hold.
Now, what is this post? Are you anti-black because it seems like youâre erasing Africans from history and denying that AE are/couldhavebeen black? No, Iâm not, in fact here is what most people donât understand: Egypt does not adhere to race, as race is a Western construct created out of imperialism, colonisation, all that jazz and as such, Egypt (and most countries) identify in terms of ethnicity rather than race. The ME today still does not acknowledge race the way America and the West does because it doesnât exist (the way it does in Western countries) back home and in quite a few other countries as well. Did you ever wonder why when you meet, for instance, an Arab and instead of automatically informing me that theyâre Arab, theyâll name their country instead? If you meet someone from Africa, they go by their country over their race and overall identity as an African, have you wondered why? Itâs because most people identify themselves by ethnicity and not race, because, as Iâve screamed this at the top of my lungs several times: race is a western construct. This is something Iâm going to keep repeating because itâs very important to understand in terms of the Egyptian identity, specifically. Â
So, you may be asking, what are you saying Leena? Iâm saying that it is only by Western standards and constructs of race are we forced to identify overselves in terms of our skin colour over our ethnic and cultural identity (or identities). In fact, according to the Oxford Encyclopedia of AE, âany characterization of race of the ancient Egyptians depends on modern cultural definitions, not on scientific study. Thus, by modern American standards it is reasonable to characterize the Egyptians as âblackâ, while acknowledging the scientific evidence for the physical diversity of Africans.â The reason why so many Egyptians are confused by the argument of AEâs race is because we do not adhere to Western constructs of race and never have, as frustrating as that may be for someone living in the West to understand. It is not out of anti-blackness, though there is no denial of anti-blackness existing in Arab communities, but because the notion of race does not exist amongst Egyptians and quite a few other nations as well.
*Here is a wicked post by someone who ripped apart all these notions that youâre coming at me with and that your friends tried to use yesterday.Â
*something important to note is that the colour of our skin does not influence our identity and ethnicity; where you are from is what creates the main foundation of your identity. other things like religious beliefs, sexuality, etc, play another role of our identities.Â
Moving on, youâre probably wondering then what the fuck are Egyptians. Let me copy + paste this as well because everyone is better at wording things than I am:
What were the ancient Egyptians? Were they black or were they white? Because of  whitewashing in both popular culture and history classes, a lot of  people tend to think they were white. Because they live in Africa (a continent, letâs recall, which is substantially larger than Europe),  other people assume they were black. Oddly, itâs occurred to relatively few people to look at how modern Egyptians think of themselves, because we have divorced ancient and modern Egypt in our minds as if theyâre two completely unrelated cultures. Which (as Iâll explain in a bit) is largely nonsense.
For their part, most Egyptians define themselves as Arabs.
But does any of this matter? After all, the ancient Egyptians didnât speak  Arabic; they spoke their own language, attested in hieroglyphics. Well yes, they did, although Coptic (spoken by some Egyptian Christians) is actually a descendant of that language so thatâs not a particularly strong argument. Coptic and Arabic are also both Afro-Asiatic languages (along with Hebrew, the Berber languages Tamazight, Amhara, and Hausa), so itâs not as if the languages are completely unrelated.
But what about how Egypt got invaded and conquered by a whole bunch of people, including the Arabs? Couldnât that have impacted the Egyptiansâ race? Well sure, that happened. Libyans, Nubians, Canaanites, Mesopotamians, Persians, Greeks, and Romans have all ruled Egypt at one point or another and the Arabs are the most recent bunch (not counting the Turks or the British). But the truth is that conquest only very rarely leads  to a massive shift in the native population; the conquest of the Americas aside (which was aided very significantly by the nativesâ vulnerability to Afro-Eurasian diseases), the genetic makeup of a  countryâs populace before and after conquest is usually pretty similar, to a point that itâs almost not worth talking about. And genetic studies in Egypt back this up: the genetic profile of modern Egyptians has been affected less than 15% by foreign admixture.
Thereâs also the fact that ancient Egyptians didnât really perceive themselves as either âblackâ or âwhite.â Just look at the above painting from Pharaoh Seti Iâs tomb. The top right group, with the palest skin are  Libyans (Berbers Amazigh), the next one over to the left are Nubians, followed by âAsiaticsâ (Mesopotamians). The bottom central group are Egyptians. By their own perception Egyptians were neither particularly dark nor particularly pale, and given their xenophobic attitude towards outside  cultures (which was fairly common for most ancient peoples) they would  probably resent being sorted into either ârace.â So why does this matter? Why is it important that we acknowledge the Egyptians donât fit  into our constructed dichotomy of black vs. white, of European or African? Well, for one thing many modern Egyptians find it kind of offensive.  Despite their modern self-identification as Arabs, most Egyptians still  feel a strong claim to the historical legacy of their ancient forebears  and find it pretty annoying when American scholars (and, black or  white, it is mostly Americans) try to pigeonhole the pharaohs into one racial category or another for political purposes. Secondly,itâs pretty clearly false as Iâve shown above. The ancient Egyptians were African, but thatâs a pretty broad label, just like the word âAsianâ includes within its meaning Turks, Indians, Samoyeds, Han, Chinese, and Malays. Thereâs a lot of similarity between Egyptians and Nubians, thatâs true. Thereâs also a lot of resemblance between Egyptians and Palestinians. They donât fit neatly into one super-category or the other, not when you peel away the labels and look at the actual facts. Itâs also, when you get right down it, kind of imperialistic.
So what are Egyptians? Well, itâs a really simple answer. Weâre Egyptians. Whether or not we identify as Arab is up to individual and is not for you to decide.
Letâs break for a second and figure out what weâve learned:
Egyptians do not ascribe to race
race is a Western imperial constructÂ
modern-day Egyptians are the descendants of Ancient Egyptians
AE was an African civilisation, but not a black one
Africa is a diverse and huge continent
most Egyptians today consider themselves Arab or simply Egyptian
Egyptians are considered black by US standards and not Egyptian standards and thought
the Arab identity was spread through Islam
Egyptians are Egyptians, ancient or modern
we didnât change thanks to the âindo-ayran arabsâ or the greeks, romans, whomever. our genetics literally have not changed as pointed out in the beginning
you probably do not have any sort of claim to Egypt and our heritageÂ
African does not equal âblackâ
Egyptians easily accept the duality of being African and Arab and it doesnât bother us (so it shouldnât bother you)
we were not âoverrunâ by the âindo-ayran Arabâ settlers who âdrove away the real black Egyptiansâ because that never fucking happened
Egyptians today are the descendants of ancient Egyptians
trying to claim our heritage and cast us aside in favour of your ego or political views is wrong, historically and morally
our blood did not become âdilutedâ due to foreign rulers and settlers
actually, most rulers who invaded AE ended up adapting to AE culture and considered themselves EgyptiansâCleopatra was of Persian and Greek descent, yet everyone sees her as another Egyptian
in fact we didnât have an actual Egyptian as a ruler until 1953 when we established as an independent state from British colonialism and ditched our monarchy (sorry King Fuad)
to sum it all up look at another one of Deenaâs posts
Here are some articles + books written by real-life Egyptians speaking about our identity: x, x, x, x, x, x  Hereâs more stuff about Egyptian (and the larger Arab) identity: x, x, x, x, x, x
Here is a PDF file you can download that talks about Ottomanism and Arabism in Masr
this piece doesnât have much to do with anything but I think itâs cool. so is this and this also this exploring Arabness and now Iâm just linking articles I think are interesting also look at this archive i just found also check this out itâs also kind of cool
*Here is another one of Deenaâs posts âBefore Talking About Egyptâ which can help you along your journey of discovering Egypt on Tumblr through real life Egyptians instead of the discourse produced by Americans
Okay, fine so Egyptians donât ascribe to constructs of race, but Iâm still of African descent and therefore of possible Egyptian ancestry.
Eh, not really. If weâre going by that logic, then youâre likely to be Moroccan, Libyan, Algerian, and Tunisian as well. The majority of Af-Am were brought by the Atlantic slave trade, not through willing immigration. Egyptians do not have the right to claim the oppression African Americans endured and we do not share that history. Though it is incredibly literal to say that everyone from N. African are African-Americans, that is a whole different boat and does not deal with individual identities, ethnic groups, and cultural differences. Though really if weâre going to have a census change, Iâd like if Middle Eastern and North African were on there. I digress, you probably are not from Egyptian ancestry as much as you may like to be
The First Atlantic system was the trade of enslaved Africans to, primarily, South American colonies of the Portuguese and Spanish empires; it accounted for slightly more than 3% of all Atlantic slave trade. It started (on a significant scale) in about 1502[38] and lasted until 1580 when Portugal was temporarily united with Spain. While the Portuguese were directly involved in trading enslaved peoples, the Spanish empire relied on the asiento system, awarding merchants (mostly from other countries) the license to trade enslaved people to their colonies. During the first Atlantic system most of these traders were Portuguese, giving them a near-monopoly during the era. Some Dutch, English, and French traders also participated in the slave trade.[39] After the union, Portugal came under Spanish legislation that prohibited it from directly engaging in the slave trade as a carrier. It became a target for the traditional enemies of Spain, losing a large share of the trade to the Dutch, English and French.
The Second Atlantic system was the trade of enslaved Africans by mostly English, Portuguese, French and Dutch traders. The main destinations of this phase were the Caribbean colonies and Brazil, as European nations built up economically slave-dependent colonies in the New World.[40]Slightly more than 3% of the enslaved people exported from Africa were traded between 1450 and 1600, and 16% in the 17th century.
It is estimated that more than half of the entire slave trade took place during the 18th century, with the British, Portuguese and French being the main carriers of nine out of ten slaves abducted from Africa.[41] By the 1690s, the English were shipping the most slaves from West Africa.[42]They maintained this position during the 18th century, becoming the biggest shippers of slaves across the Atlantic.[43]
âHere were eight principal areas used by Europeans to buy and ship slaves to the Western Hemisphere. The number of enslaved people sold to the New World varied throughout the slave trade. As for the distribution of slaves from regions of activity, certain areas produced far more enslaved people than others. Between 1650 and 1900, 10.24 million enslaved Africans arrived in the Americas from the following regions in the following proportions:[62]
Senegambia (Senegal and the Gambia): 4.8%
Upper Guinea (Guinea-Bissau, Guinea and Sierra Leone): 4.1%
Windward Coast (Liberia and CĂ´te dâIvoire): 1.8%
Gold Coast (Ghana and east of CĂ´te dâIvoire): 10.4%
Bight of Benin (Togo, Benin and Nigeria west of the Niger Delta): 20.2%
Bight of Biafra (Nigeria east of the Niger Delta, Cameroon, Equatorial Guinea and Gabon): 14.6%
West Central Africa (Republic of Congo, Democratic Republic of Congo and Angola): 39.4%
Southeastern Africa (Mozambique and Madagascar): 4.7%
The different ethnic groups brought to the Americas closely corresponds to the regions of heaviest activity in the slave trade. Over 45 distinct ethnic groups were taken to the Americas during the trade. Of the 45, the ten most prominent, according to slave documentation of the era are listed below.[63]
The BaKongo of the Democratic Republic of Congo and Angola
The MandĂŠ of Upper Guinea
The Gbe speakers of Togo, Ghana and Benin (Adja, Mina, Ewe, Fon)
The Akan of Ghana and Cote dâIvoire
The Wolof of Senegal and the Gambia
The Igbo of southeastern Nigeria
The Mbundu of Angola (includes both Ambundu and Ovimbundu)
The Yoruba of southwestern Nigeria
The Makua of Mozambiqueâ
None of the above is from Egypt or any countries in NA. Here is in info about slavery in the US (isnât Wikipedia amazing?) and an archive of sorts. The majority of Africans who were taken into slavery and shipped to the US are from Western African heritage. This is a pretty basic fact most kids learn in grade 5. You can also try Google.
The idea that Af-Am can be Egyptian or that Egyptians, whether ancient or modern, are black was created by Afrocentrism; the idea that Af-Am are descendants of AE is a messy theory and denies modern day Egyptians of our heritage in favour of another group of persons essentially replacing us in our own history. Afrocentrism is a brilliant thing but it has some issues, such as this, when it accidentally ends up splitting Egyptians from our heritage and forcing us into American and Western standards and perspectives.Â
Here is a post explaining why Afrocentrism can be damaging to native Africans and African identities.
Iâm not denying my own genetic make-up. Iâm not denying Ancient Egypt as an African civilisation. I am disagreeing with your, and multiple othersâ, claim that African-Americans have a right to Egypt; that their ancestors are from Egypt. There is a difference in denying that Egypt is in Africa and that AE is an African civilisation v. when people are trying to speak over a native about their own identity. There is a difference of me being ignorant + anti-black v. me correcting you when you are attempting to claim my heritage. If you cannot see that difference, that is not my problem.Â
Edit: I meant to say that Arab isnât a racial identity; it is a pan-ethnic cultural identity. Sorry!