Neemin

I really wanna expand this and add the ticket both/ food stalls as well as all the behind the scenes areas like the locker room, foyer, foxes lounge, ect. I’ve been slowly mapping out where everything is so shout out to Neil for being overly anxious and needing to map out the layout and exits of every room he walks into.

Had Erica and Lucas in s4 be in a scene comparable to police brutality . Even having Jason point a gun at Lucas. And having poor Erica be tackled by a man (talked about it more thoroughly here) .The writers didn’t have the guts to meaningfully touch on how prevalent racism was in the 80s - so without doing so it just felt like they were exploiting black trauma for suspense. Without even thinking of how that would negatively affect or trigger black viewers. They also made Billy racist but not explicitly so. Arguably so fans could still thirst after Billy and deny his racism -and possible so they could keep their racist fans within the G.A. They could have called out the deniers after s2 via an interview a long time ago. And in s3 they gave Billy a redemption arc when his racism wasn't ever rectified in s3 (they just ignored it)? Tbf , Lucas was very much likable and level headed for most of the seasons (I’ll give them that) . And I also appreciate how intelligent and affluent they made both Lucas & Erica . But, I did find some aspects of Erica’s portrayal problematic since the very beginning- she always seemed to embody the “sapphire/sassy trope.” And Erica's actress has verbally implied she's had qualms with Erica embodying the " sassy black woman" trope (although subtly).

After the finale the Duffers also claimed that "no one is concerned about Erica" cause she's "so tough". Can we stop the adultification/masculinizing of young black girls? It's awful and problematic .Isn't her character in middle school (it would be normal to be concerned for her cause she's a literal child)?! I hope she gets better roles in the future.

They never addressed what happened to Argyle, when they could of just said a random one liner saying he left the city before the military check points were set-up. They also didn't even give the actor a heads-up that he would not be returning for s5. It just shows to me that once again they don't care about the majority of their poc characters or even actors .Similar to Erica , Argyle could also fall into another problematic trope: the "hispanic stoner trope".

QUEER REP: QUEER BAITING A COUPLE. Constantly comparing Mike/ Will to canon couples for 5 seasons just to foreshadow unrequited love . And also use byler in marketing/social media constantly. Will said that if he lost mike he'd want it to be done like 'ripping off a bandaid' (the writers didn't give the queer viewers that- they dragged us along even in the finale, cause they wanted our viewership and engagement to make money). They repeat the tired old trope of : gay best friend needs to gets over straight bff (who is in love with the main heroine). Then have the gay friend lie to prop up and fix that straight pairing (while establishing the cyarno trope with the painting but never addressing it) . And in that season , they have him literally 3rd wheel the straight couple just to make him suffer (and use him as a punching bag for the whole series).Because a lot of straight writers subconsciously romanticize queer pain (and think it adds depth to their writing) .

Then they force said gay character to come out because he was coerced to by the villain . While the show never even uses the word "gay" for either Robin or Will . Then the sapphic couple also gets together/break up OFF SCREEN (while all the straight couples get actual development or closure) . They have the show take place during the aids epidemic with no mentions of it, and ignore the fact that 'anti gay propaganda' was prolific in the 80s . If Duffers want to talk about “realism” to justify Will getting rejected : it's not "realistic", for a room full of straight people to all be accepting of Will in the 80s . Let’s talk about how the Duffers barely talk about homophobia- so the straight audience doesn’t feel too bad about their own subconscious biases and LONG history of discriminatory practices ! THAT'S NOT "REALISTIC"-it's HISTORICAL REVISIONISM. The straight G.A bullied the queer fanbase for years (because queer viewers wanted better queer rep and fell for the queer bait). Those bullies never have to reflect on their actions (they're rewarded). They also didn't even give Will an actual 'rejection': he just rejects himself which is almost worst. Then he gets a 0.5s scene with a nameless guy -wow how revolutionary . "Gay epilogue bf/gf" is also another problematic gay trope.

Because an epilogue bf is a "tokenistic nod rather than meaningful inclusion" of a romantic gay relationship . At least El & Will are away from Ted 2.0 .Will getting rejected is just remnants of the usa's hays code: which made it illegal for films, tv and books to have a queer characters be in them unless they die , or had an unrequited love, or sad ending . This is also why shows do subtle queer coding even today (it was how writers back then got around the law to give their queer characters a happy ending) . The coding in ST was for queer readers to pick up on , while straight viewers would not . And that's why straight viewers today will say we're "delusional " : queer coding is now primarily weaponized by straight writers for marketing purposes. They know queer coding is usually only noticed by queer viewers . And they use this to their advantage when 'baiting' a queer couple, and not following through. They take advantage of the queer viewers, but also use their straight /heteronormative viewers as a shield (since they know they'll defend them in the end) .

Using sa/csa imagery with the monsters just for shock value. And as an “allegory” again cause they didn’t have the guts to address the subject (just like they didn’t have the guts to address homophobia or racism thoroughly or meaningful ) .They just triggered a bunch of sa victims for nothing , and for multiple seasons . As a gay csa victim this really pisses me off.

This is disgusting because there was no narrative reason to do this. It's not like they even tried to explore how and why THIS specifically would traumatize Will. They just did it for shock value and to torture their gay character some more. And they doubled down on this imagery in s5 with other kids- for again seemingly no narrative reason. Or maybe for more nefarious reasons...

Have Karen (who is in her 40s) almost hook up with a teenage (18y old) Billy . And she doesn’t even call it off cause of his age but because “she has a family.” In a lot of ways Karen was the goat but that choice did ruin her character for me. Like couldn’t she at least tell Billy: ‘you're much too young for me. I don't want to take advantage of you" in addition to her 'having a family' comment? Also having Murray encourage teenagers to bang was weird. I'm SIDE EYE-ing the Duffers forever . Especially cause they also added superfluous csa imagery and forced us to watch kids makeout in s3.

In the Wheeler family, this questionable behavior isn't just from Karen . We have El who didn’t initially know what a friend was , ask Mike if he’d be her brother or friend at the snowball- and then Mike kisses her. In s2 we see a gifted boy (who talks about "ectotherms") be "IN LOVE" with a girl who was just learning how to tell time and ask what “compromise” means . Then in s3, Mike just makes out with her constantly - despite El having to ask Max “how do I know what I like?” And in s3 she didn't even knowing what Illinois was (even after going to Chicago in s2). But- there was no (morally questionable) power imbalance between the 2 .Nope...not SUPER Creepy at all . No real world implications. I'm probably overthinking it : it's not like men in real life have weird fantasies about taking advantage of naive -impressionable girls with less knowledge of the real world than them so they can manipulate and groom them into a relationship (laughs nervously).

In real life, Mike would have been jumped for taking advantage of such a girl. Yeah, she matured and grew later on (but them dating, especially in the early seasons was always creepy and morally questionable). Myself (and others) have been saying for years: she needed friends, family , and socialization before she jumped head-first into a romantic relationship.

The worst part is the Duffers placed a child in an old problematic sci-fi/fantasy trope called "born sexy yesterday" . No , I'm not saying she was sexy for people who love twisting my words. The trope has been around for decades but the term was only recently coined by youtuber 'pop culture detective' (I'd recommend watching the video about it yourself) . The trope is usually about a main heroine who is a "magical woman who is an adult but is mentally stunted like a child (and has little to no exposure to the outside world) . Her male love interest is often a normal (or nerdy) human man who teaches her about the world and grooms her into a relationship ."

One alarming thing I learned from 'pop culture detective's" video was that an element of the trope involves the woman innocently undressing in front of a group of men cause she doesn't understand the social rules (this is usually done for gross fan-service) . This made my heart stop cause El did attempt to undress in front of the boys in the 1st episode. Initially, I though that it was to indicate how little privacy at the lab she had (or worse) . Now I'm just side eyeing the writers who wrote this (especially given how infamous Hollywood is toward child actors)...

The Duffers didn't subvert the trope: by showing how problematic Mike/El were together and letting El break it off . But instead they doubled-down on romanticizing their relationship .And worst of all: they used a child for the trope, which is EVEN WORSE than the initial problematic trope itself!!!!!! Mike was also clearly their self insert so it's even creepier .

Compared Mileven to to El & Brenner, el& hopper and el& Henry (post with proofs here) . But then they sell mileven as a romantic fantasy despite Mike STILL not being able to say “I love you” back to El in s5. You suck, Wheeler . The fact El’s whole life has been controlled by men that thought they knew what was best for her. And then they made El's sacrifice revolve around her (not great) bf is just gross and frankly unearned. Especially given how little positive development we saw of their relationship. She literally said in s4 Mike didn't "understand" her but than in s5 claimed Mike was the only one who "understood" her. It was so obvious men wrote this line to fufill their (Mike) self-insert fantasy, GROSS. El deserved to live and have fufilling relationships and bonds with other women. Especially when men took away her mother,aunt, "sister", childhood, and even her ability to express her femminity.

Mileven was also compared to Ted/karen. And even without El , Mike still conforms with his Ted glasses and ends up like his father who is oblivious to the world around him: hanging up the painting that he still thinks El commissioned . "you're just blind that a girl's not grossed out by you."

He falls into the false fantasy of El that Will made. Just like in the end, Mike writes her in the fantasy: as a mage who is in a far away land with waterfalls. Even when El herself said about this fantasy :” life isn’t like one of your campaigns, you can’t write the ending.” And he proceeds to do just that (re-write HER ending and everyone else's)! Just like the Duffers , Mike didn't see the real her, only a fantasy of her- to them she was just a a symbol of childhood magic (like the characters in Mike's childhood game). Mike also doesn’t move on like everyone else , and the party seemingly drifts apart and he’s alone like he always feared. He never becomes "Mike the brave" in the finale either ,unlike Holly the heroic or even Will the sorcerer who said he'll no longer be "afraid". And Mike is left with "regrets", that he said he wanred to prevent. How weirdly (and unintentionally) bleak for a self-insert character? Divorce get to you Ross?

Also having an open ending can theoretically work. But if El dying and El surviving both have GAPING PLOT HOLES. It's just poor writing.

Have almost all the character spy and stalk a love interest. Jonathan using the camera on Nancy , Lucas using binoculars to spy on max, Steve spying on a girl he was into in s3 with binoculars, el /Max spying on Mike & Lucas after their breakup Aka: stalking for love trope.

Why did the characters spy on one another parallel the hyper-surveillance of the us gov, or the spying of the mindflayer? Duffers probably: "no reason, we just do parallels for fun with no deep thematics behind it." They also had Jonathan throw out Nancy's sweater cause it was pink . SMH duffers’ incel energy unfairly affecting Jonathan’s character. Some aspects of how the women were written were done well. But, sometimes subconscious misogyny seemed to seep through -by the duffers or another writer . Besides Kali/El's endings being evidence of that. Why was Tina "the worst" in the family, when Derick was clearly the menace before his redemption arc? Was it necessary to have the children call Holly a b*tch, strangle her, and throw her down the stairs? I could go on...

I have mixed feelings about this next one, because they tortured Max for s2-5 (and frankly I would have preferred Max just breaking the curse in s4 like Will broke the m.f's control in s2). So, I'm glad she got her happy ending in s5 . I get that realistically : her bones healed, and her atrophied muscles healed too (even thought they ignored the fact that Max would also realistically be on a feeding tube and IV while in the the hospital). But , the fact vecna's curse was broken so her blindness is just gone... I'm curious how some other viewers with disabilities felt about this? Lucas even claimed Mike was "blind" because of a girl. So Max being "blind" was possibly a call back. You could argue Max being physically fine in the end is part of the "throwing off the disability" trope.

They play Hopper’s explosive anger as a joke even in the finale (haha so cute that he’s yelling at Joyce’s son for making a simple camera mistake.) Let’s have Joyce get with a guy with anger issues even though she already divorced a guy who would yell and insult her sons . Hopper had some great characterization even in the finale but they flanderized and tried to make his anger issues comical from s3 and beyond . The way he talked to her in s3 was apalling . Hopper in s3 is made into a male power fantasy : an angry , gun slinger , who was based off of magnum pi and other macho men from that era of tv/film . Joyce doesn’t get with nerdy, sweet, emotionally intelligent bob whose had a crush on her since highschool (he is brutally killed looking at her with love ). "Nice guys can't win": all cause the nerdy Duffers didn't pull in high school.

So instead she gets with the macho archetype from the era . Even when Murray in s3 pointed out that Jim reminded her of Lonnie . Why even have him say this if we're supposed to want them together??? Duffers really struggle to write healthy relationships.

Have Murray go through military checkpoints, and be the one that drives aid/food into a town under military occupation (which is even enclosed by a fence/wall). When Brett gelman is a racist Zionist who supported the Military siege , bombing, blocking of aid and starvation of Gazans who were also in an enclosed walled/fenced city .

And Palestinians outside of Gaza also have to use different roads and go through various military checkpoints unlike their Israeli counterparts (as part of the 70+ year apartheid). Having the kids literally escape the occupying military force by going into tunnels (was a choice when israel uses the fact Gaza has tunnels as an excuse to bomb hospitals, schools, churches, mosques, etc). And having Murray blow up a military helicopter (while palestinian kids are often arrested for simply throwing rocks at Israeli tanks is interesting). But, I guess none of these characters are "terr*rists of the state" or get arrested for decades without trial like Palestinians do . Even when these characters in ST actually killed a bunch of soldiers- they're not deemed as "terr*rists". HMMMMMMMM wonder why? Also look how "realism" is randomly gone again (guess it's only important for gay suffering and k*lling off ab*sed women). It could be a coincidence. Or , at best, it's one of the other writers taking a dig at Brett Gelman. As he's the only character who gets to go through checkpoints as ease -unlike the Hawkins citizens (similar to how israeli citizens are able to go through military checkpoints in occupied Palestine with ease) .

And if not, they're using the plight of Palestinian trauma as window dressing for their show (or even worse mocking the people who wanted to boycott s5 due to the their 2 actors' comments against Palestine).

In s3, they do essentially cold-war propaganda (common in the 80s) within the show by making the communist soviets cartoonishly evil. All while Erica is used as a conservative mouth piece: who praises American Capitalism . And she is described as a genius "political junkie" (after she claims America is a meritocracy and people get payed based on their contributions to society... ok, respectfully don't agree with that take tbh).

Ignore the fact that at this exact same time Regan as president popularized "trickle down economics" (otherwise known as Regeanomics) : which is the cause of most of our economic issues today . He also cut & reduced funding for many of our social-programs by running on a campaign that used a racist dog whistle for black women .

So yeah, maybe i'm too sensitive and overthinking it (unlike the Duffers, apparently). But having the (possibly) white conservative writers make her say this whole spiel : feels very icky, and a bit tone death given the political climate at that time. Jonathan tbf does a "anti-capitalist" movie in the finale, but it rings hollow, when the stranger things creators are seemingly very pro-capitalist. Down to the obnoxious product placements, the merch, spin off shows/books/comics/food etc. The Duffer Brothers (after the finale) even started offering a writing class of all things, which is only available through a subscription platform (again cause they can never have enough money apparently). They think : THEY deserve all that money for THEIR contribution to society (don't blow up their ego more, and let them take your money , while looking down on you)!!!!

The duffers claim it’s a show for outcasts but at the end of the day- it’s just a show for nerdy white incels or men .

It has a veneer of progressiveness, but it isn’t in actuality. They claim the show is against "conformity" but ironically falls into many of the conformist tropes and writing conventions that have been critiqued as harmful for decades. It uses marginalized people and women to get browning points. But, It's not progressive at it's core (it's regressive)! It didn't challenge many of the out-dated (and harmful) tropes we don't want to see in media today. IF ANYTHING THEY BROUGHT BACK MANY PROBLEMATIC TROPES.

You could also argue the show is subtle & insidious : historical revisionism.

A few years ago I’d give them more credit with the symbolism , parallels, music choices, set design, foreshadowing, etc (which usually amounted to nothing). I thought some of the problematic writing was intentional subtext and symbolism for a greater reveal (or that most of these tropes would later be subverted or explained as problematic in the narrative ) . But that finale along with all the plot holes, and poor writing choices, made me question the entire series as a whole. To be fair a lot of redeeming aspects of the show may have been attributable to less famous writers of the show, directors/producers, set designers, music composers, etc . Some of the highest rated episodes weren't written by the Duffers (or had other writers reeling in the Duffers problematic elements). The s5 writer's strike probably didn't help. And for s5 they got rid of one of their female writers /co executive producers (Kate Tefry) who was involved since s1 .Instead of helping finish s5, she worked on the spin-off play instead (which could explain a lot about the nose dive s5 took):

I also do sort of believe in divorce gate: the conspiracy theory about Leigh Janiak (Ross' ex wife) maybe being a ghost writer. She's a screenwriter and director (who has worked on Ross' other projects).The divorce filing occurred after part 1. Leigh also made the 'fear street trilogy': it was diverse, set in the 90s, had a straight bait instead of a queer-bait, and had the main character save her gf from possession/death. Love was the cure. It also had a bunch of st easterggs down to a bleeding nostril to allude to the supernatural, and staring 3 actresses from ST. Maya hawke's character even worked at a video store. Leigh complained that "queer subtext is not the same as real representation" and that she despised when writers would do queer subtext but never follow through (explaining it was one of the reasons she made fear street). hmm. The duffers were also sued for allegedly stealing others work twice (so I would not be surprised if he stole creative work or ideas from his wife too). The first lawsuit, filed by filmmaker Charlie Kessler in 2018, who claimed the Duffers stole the idea from his 2012 short film Montauk after he pitched it to them at the Tribeca Film Festival in 2014.The second lawsuit, filed in 2020 by Irish Rover Entertainment, alleged that the show was based on an unpublished script called Totem written by Jeffrey Kennedy, with similarities in plot, characters, and concept art. This lawsuit was settled out of court in 2023

Regardless of whether those rumors are true . We should not reward or normalize the Duffers writing in Hollywood : they do harmful/regressive tropes and messaging, use easterggs/call backs that have no deeper meaning, and can't complete a story without many plot holes and ret-cons. They even normalized short seasons which take much longer to make (when shows shortly before st's initial airing had 25+ (45 minute) episodes: that were created in less time with similar or better quality. That's not even getting into all the rumors/ allegations of the Duffers mistreating their staff...