Nateese

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So, in the atonement ending we get Solas in a position where he's about to say something on the spirits and then the conversation gets cut off.

Solas: It is not just people. The spirits- Rook: Will be destroyed when you do this too. Won't they?

I get stuck on dialogue sometimes because this exchange makes it sound like Rook is implying all spirits will be destroyed, but we have precedent. Spirits survived the Veil going up, so it's highly likely many would survive Veilfall as well.

In-universe, Solas is the single most informed person alive on the subject of spirits. Emmrich wishes they had more time to discuss them, that he's surprised to hear how much the spirits respect the Dread Wolf. Across the games and supplementary material, Dragon Age repeatedly establishes the connection between Solas and spirits. He is called Spirit Speaker, Cole gives great insight into Solas' relationship with spirits, spirits fight alongside Solas willingly (Tevinter Nights), they respect him, trust him, call out to him for help.

We're also told that spirits were willing to help Solas minimize the damage of Veilfall numerous times. To me, that's a massive narrative beat (I've said it before, I believe Solas in this).

So if spirits were willing to help try and control things in Veilfall, the question is why?

And no, I don't believe Solas bound them - he only ever frees spirits and despises enslavement, nor do I believe he withheld information from them. Spirits may be simpler in some respects than mortals, and there might be that one memory showing him withholding info from the spirits, but they are still intelligent beings. They would be just as capable of grasping the risks of Veilfall as the people of Thedas. Many of them would remember the Veil going up in the first place and we know many want to be one with the world again. I'm certain many feel the loss of the connection.

If spirits willingly agreed to help mitigate the damage of Veilfall, then for me the implication is that at least some spirits also want the veil gone (I'm sure there are some spirits who don't trust the Dread Wolf). Some remember when the Fade was one with the world and long for it. Others may be scared of the constant threat of corruption (why spirits fled the breach in DAI), and some may be suffering. I think of his Wisdom friend specifically who got pulled through and bound and tormented - who cried to him in his dreams for help. As I posted before - how many cries of help has Solas heard over the course of time when the veil went up that would be a part of his obsession to tear the veil down?

That doesn't mean Veilfall would have been clean. But it suggests there are perspectives on the veil - particularly from spirits - that the narrative as written never lets us explore. And considering Solas is the only character in Thedas most qualified to speak on the subject of spirits, I'm sad that the one conversation that seemed poised to address it gets cut short. And since this dialogue is only in the atonement ending, my assumption here is that players choosing this option, actually want to hear Solas out.

The spirits what Solas? WHAAAT?

I don’t think he was going to claim that spirits wouldn’t be harmed, or that none would be destroyed. Solas isn’t naive - he knows spirits will suffer, just as many people will, and he never denies that. But maybe he was about to argue that leaving the veil intact is causing ongoing harm to spirits, harm that most people in Thedas don't see because their treatment of spirits has become so normalized. Or maybe he was going to say that the spirits want this as much as he does.

I think Solas was going to say something like:

It is not just people. The spirits have as much right to a world without the Veil as the elves. Perhaps more.

But I do think that it would have been difficult for the spirits to adjust to the influx of emotion so close. I think many spirits were lost in the creation of the Veil, or terribly damaged, like the Librarians or the Ghil-Dirthalen. I don't think that the Veil is necessarily causing ongoing harm. I think in many ways, it serves as a buffer between the spirits and I suspect human emotion, more than elven or Qunari, and I suspect that the spirits don't see the dwarves much at all.

What I do think is causing harm to spirits is the general attitude about spirits that has been created by the separation of spirits and physical people by the Veil, and the removal of the Veil wouldn't change that immediately.

And I don't know that all spirits are particularly willing to help, plenty seem perfectly happy in the Crossroads, or just hanging out in Rivain, but it certainly seems like the Compassions were, and why wouldn't they? That's right up their alley, particularly if they have Cole with them, with personal experience on the matter.

I wanted the Veil to come down, when Cole said in the Vir Dirthara that he wasn't a wrong thing. Mood, Cole. What I ended up arriving once I was less annoyed at the general unfairness of it all was that there would be a big ecological problem created by the sudden fail of the Veil, because the plants and animals have adapted to those conditions (we know felendaris only grows where the Veil is thin) and unfortunately the biggest problem with the removal of the Veil is it doesn't instantly change people's attitudes, which is the biggest threat to the elves and the spirits. But ultimately, I was happy enough to leave the choice up to Solas. The Veil gets thinner with every war and skirmish anyway, seems like the guy who made it should be the best person to dismantle it safely.

I agree with you that not every spirit would be willing to help - some would be used to how things are. Isn't that interesting then that there could be a sect of spirits far older and ancient that might be more interested in the veil being gone vs new ones? AHHH new thoughts to think on!

"What I ended up arriving once I was less annoyed at the general unfairness of it all was that there would be a big ecological problem created by the sudden fail of the Veil" - A big yes - that is fascinating in itself and makes me wonder if spirits could grasp that part as well? (And also I kind of want that because I loves stories of the earth and flora and fauna evolving - even if it's chaotic at first😊)

You also said this: "But ultimately, I was happy enough to leave the choice up to Solas. The Veil gets thinner with every war and skirmish anyway, seems like the guy who made it should be the best person to dismantle it safely." Ok interesting too - because I thought that as well when he binds himself - well, yes, he's in a heightened emotional state and maybe not thinking too clearly, but clearly enough that the believes/knows in that moment that one being, him, being tied to the veil is suffice for now and he's got time now to look at the process of that slow erosion as you say.

It's what I alway felt the Inquisitor was implying in Trespasser in a few dialogues - let me help you (even a non elven Inky can say that it is a noble goal and they would give their life to help the elves) - so it kind of always felt like the Inquisitor was hoping Solas would take the help so they could figure it out together. Solas going it alone is just too iffy lol.

Considering how much Rook interacts with spirits and mine a dwarf, i feel like with the magic awake and wild in the world, the spirits could be seeing everyone in the physical world - maybe that might be a new delight for spirits - to now see dwarves and perhaps be reminded of the Titans and that old connection. They might be so much more curious about dwarves.

Sorry for this rambling reblog but I knew it would be too long for a comment - but this has been great for a lot of new questions to ponder.

However, the question of the ethics of destroying the veil is akin to the question of the ethics of overthrowing a tyrannical or slave-holding regime. In both cases, there will be a multitude of casualties—including innocent victims. There will be chaos. All social institutions will come under attack. Many lives will be shattered. It always involves blood and filth. But the alternative is to perpetuate tyranny and slavery. (Think of the poor market vendor, the  Weekes would say; think of all the slaves—and their children and grandchildren—doomed to that same slavery, I would say.) Ultimately, for me, this isn't a question worth discussing. (And that is the only question actually on Rook’s mind—even in this snippet—and they had already found the right answer for themselves before even meeting Solas). The question that *is* worth discussing is how to make this whole process less traumatic. And the only one who asked himself that question and found a solution—perhaps not the best one—was Solas.

If artists are the backbone of a fandom, then you all are the muscles. Connecting everyone and everything. Spreading fun and whimsy. That’s real neat, I think

OR THESE XDD Two incubi that SOMEONE SEEMS TO BE WATCHING I WONDER WHO-O-O %D

And finally, my co-author (@madnessdemonart kissu) pushed me to take up the concept of a haemonculus (who create my incub heh).

I won't explain anything here. XDDD

Feat. Dhavihal Lavellan (she/her), based with permission on a drabble a friend wrote for me here.

Disclaimer that I actually love Morrigan and don't hold her yapping in the Temple of Mythal against her at all and this actually started because I thought it was funny Lavellan can ask who Mythal is, potentially while wearing Mythal's vallaslin. So the question became why would Dhavi do that? and the answer was to be a little shit.