𝐌𝐢𝐥𝐞𝐬 𝐅𝐚𝐢𝐫𝐜𝐡𝐢𝐥𝐝

Loving the theory of the ‘roommate’. I had forgotten that she is called Rose. Roses, specifically white roses, are very important in the '61 film, The Innocents. Possibly the original novella as well, but i’ve not read it myself. They apparently symbolise Innocence. Do you think her being called Rose is just a nod to that or is meant to have specific symbolism for Kate in this version as well?

*Fair Warning, Major Spoilers below for The Turning*

Oh, that’s interesting. I actually didn’t know about the symbolism of the roses in The Innocents. I’ll have to take a note of that the next time I re-watch it.

I mean, it very well could’ve been a nod to that adaptation. It wouldn’t surprise me if her name held some kind of significance or symbolism since The Turning is very much coated in that kind of imagery throughout.

Since I wasn’t familiar with the significance of roses beforehand, it’s hard for me to really theorize on this particular topic. However, just going off of what you have told me, I could see her name having some sort of symbolic meaning for Kate. Perhaps the character of Rose is the embodiment of Kate’s “innocence” so to speak, or I guess more so her sanity.

We see that the only person that Kate really was able to confide in and also acted as an anchor for her to ground her back in reality was Rose. She was the only one that felt like she was the bridge for Kate to the “real world”. When she’s at the mansion she’s very secluded and seems shut away from everyone. And Rose really acted as the one thing that would pull her out of that and get her back in touch with what was real, which could also play into my theory of Rose being Kate’s therapist.

If I remember correctly, Kate and Rose only interact three times. Once in person and then the next two times are over the phone. If we track where Kate was during these times, she still seemed like she had a hold on herself. But after their last call that’s when Kate really starts to slowly slip deeper into the madness of everything that is happening around her which could symbolize how Kate is now “out of touch” with her sanity.

Also, something that I just thought about is that if Rose potentially was a symbolism for Kate’s sanity then what if her mom was the symbolism for Kate’s madness? Think about it.

Rose and Darla (Kate’s mom) appear to be quite contrasting characters, with one seeming to be very in touch with reality while the other is not. In the beginning we see Kate more closer to Rose but towards the end Kate starts to become more connected to her mother (like with her drawings and the last phone call she receives is from her mom). And actually, another interesting thing to point out, is that the very first scene we see of Kate is Kate with Rose, and the very last scene we see of Kate is her alone with her mom. Again, perhaps this is to indicate Kate’s journey and her progression into madness. Just something to ponder…

finn wolfhard as miles fairchild in the turning¡

SPOILERS for THE TURNING film below

We know Quint killed Ms. Jessel when she tried to leave, after raping her, and presumably hid her body at the bottom of the pond. Cause of death was likely strangulation, possibly drowning, as demonstrated by Kate’s vision of the figure choking and coughing up water under the bed.

What we don’t know is how the Fairchild parents died, and considering the circumstances of the supposed “accident” at the gate, I surmise it was a collision, possibly with a horse since there are no cross streets anywhere near and that gives us the only other likely object of collision as deer or a horse. This places both fault and motive for their deaths on Quint, which fits with Mrs. Grose’s line, “he acted like he owned the place” following the parents’ deaths.

Quint is perverted and animalistic, and given Miles’ idolatry of him, it can be assumed that Quint used him as a means to become endeared to the children after their parents’ deaths. “He used to take Miles and disappear with him for hours”, Mrs. Grose tells Kate, as well as that he took Miles once to a bar and got him drunk, and that, coupled with Miles’ inappropriate advances toward Kate both while she sleeps and when she awakens to see him watching her, point to the fact that Quint was also using Miles in a sexual manner.

Quint also used to take photos of Ms. Jessel as she slept, and presumably Miles as well. Miles has a photo of Kurt Cobain sleeping tacked upon his wall, the same photo used on the news broadcast at the beginning of the film when talking about Cobain’s death.

Miles feels like he can’t leave due to his fear of what Quint will do to him. He asks Kate if she will keep him and Flora safe, as if it has become an expectation for him to him to mistrust adult strangers. He still interacts with the specter of Quint, but makes it a game to protect Flora, calling him his “special friend” when speaking to the image in the mirror.

Mrs. Grose likely killed Quint: “He is dead. I made sure of that,” possibly while lacing his drink with some kind of drug. We know he was prone to drunkenness but also a good horseman, and his falling from a horse seems unlikely unless under the influence of something further.

Quinn’s body is likely still hidden somewhere on the grounds, and this is a reach, but it could possibly the tunnel leading to the stables where Kate sees the specter of Ms. Jessel begging for help. This would make sense with Miles’ hiding there if it is a frequent haunt of his. “Everything dies, Miles,” is an echo from Flora of what he once told her.

Miles has begun strangling other boys at his school, leading to his expulsion, possibly after being a victim of Quint’s, who used asphyxiation on his victims prior to raping them. He states when giving Kate her riding lesson that establishing power over others is essential to gain control, an overt coping mechanism. 

Mrs. Grose and Flora avoid at all costs the East wing and the master suite where Quint established himself following the Fairchild parents’ deaths. Miles visits the master suite first when he arrives home after his expulsion from boarding school. Miles also wears Quint’s sweater, saying “he wanted me to have it.”

“Nothing should have to suffer,” is Miles’ response to his violently crushing the head of a dying koi, and could possibly reference his own suffering which he wishes he could end, but cannot or will not due to fear or the hold that Quint still has over him even in a noncorporeal form.

I am curious as to how their relationship changed. We don’t know when the parents were killed but I assume it’s been a few years. I’m mostly basing this off the books timeline and also the scant context clues that are provided in the movie. If anyone has any other ideas or proof about the timeline feel free to point it out to me. I feel like the car crash was the catalyst for everything to come. Quint wouldn’t have been able to have the power that he did if the parents were alive. With their death it opened the door. 

It’s reasonable to assume this is where we start to see a shift in Miles and Flora’s relationship. As Quint’s abuse got worse and continued to go unchecked you start to see Miles becoming more emotionally unstable and more protective of Flora both because he was genuinely worried about her and also because it added to become a stabilizing point in his life. I don’t doubt it was Miles who originally warned Flora away from the East wing. 

Flora may have noticed the change in behavior but she wouldn’t know or understand the causes. She probably also changed noticeably due to the trauma of the car accident. Ms. Grose would have noticed but may have assumed any emotional or otherwise new behavior in Miles may have been due to the death of the parents. Which leads me to ask how much did Ms. Grose know, and how much did she suspect? 

I don’t see her as malicious or purposely enabling Quint. I do believe she had the children’s best interests at heart but how did that transfer? Or maybe I should ask how well? I don’t think she knew much but after the incident with Ms. Jessel, she may have reevaluated certain facts and situations and that’s the real reason she killed Quint. Obviously all this is speculation but it is shown that she has a protective streak when she’s talking with Kate.

I’m also curious as to how Flora may have changed, not as drastically as Miles but she still went through major trauma. I’m curious as to where Flora was when the car accident occurred. It’s stated that she saw the whole thing. The house is far from the second gate where it happened. Was she in the car? Where was Miles if that’s true? Could this add to the aforementioned protective streak of Miles and Ms. Grose? Ms. Grose seemed super reluctant to have Flora leave. 

Also was Miles and Flora’s relationship affected when Miles was sent to boarding school? Ms. Grose may have decided to send Miles away after the death of Ms. Jessel and Quint because of what she found out or suspected about Quint’s abuse. Maybe she thought it would help Miles to leave the house for awhile.

I don’t think Miles was away at school for long. We don’t really have a solid timeline obviously but based on what I remember of the the journal entries by Ms. Jessel and Flora’s quick acceptance of Miles being back I don’t think he was gone for too long. I do want to know how both Miles and Flora reacted to Miles being sent away. Does Flora’s agoraphobia apply to Miles? Was she worried about him dying as well? And what about Miles? 

She very much believes the class ideals on privilege. I don’t know how well the movie necessarily conveys this but in the book Miles and Flora are very much nobility. And Ms. Grose certainly treats them as such, especially Miles, in the way she expects them to act. Not unusual as Miles is the elder, and while I don’t know the particulars, is most likely to inherit a lot including the title of master of the house and whatever other titles the Fairchild’s have. This is where we see a little bit of an overlap with her feelings of duty and her genuine affection for the children. She feels obligated to protect the Family as in the family name and honor, and protect Miles and Flora because they are children that she cares for. 

She defends both of them from Kate multiple times throughout the movie. She’s the one who argues against Flora leaving. She even comes to say goodbye to Flora when they go and she looks worried. Maybe because she’s seen how Flora reacts. Ms. Grose knows Flora has trauma from the car accident and maybe she’s trying to prevent Kate from furthering adding to the trauma. 

It might be seen as she’s stifling her at first but look at it from the lense of maybe she’s waiting until Flora feels ready to try leaving. I will say though, I do see where Kate is coming from, I’m not faulting her. They are both trying the way they think will work best. I’m just looking at Ms. Grose for now. She’s protective of both children but I feel it comes off more motherly when she’s dealing with Flora, perhaps in part due to her age.

Which brings me once again to Miles. We don’t see a lot of one on one interactions in the film with these two, but it’s clear they don’t have the same type of motherly relationship as Ms. Grose and Flora. This may be due to Miles’ age. He’s clearly old enough to have clear memories of his mother. But Ms. Grose clearly cares for him and has noticed how he’s changed from her comment of how as a boy he was so sweet. She’s very patient with him, and I can’t determine if that’s because she feels it’s her place or because of what she found out/suspects about Quint. I feel it’s a bit of both.

I do think Ms. Grose killed Quint and furthermore more as I stated in a previous post, I think she did it to protect/save Miles and Flora. Now did she know about the abuse beforehand? I really don’t think so. Signs of abuse can be tricky to spot especially if you’re not familiar with them. It can be even harder to recognize if there has been overlapping trauma, say for instance a tragic car accident in which someone’s parents were killed. She may not even really have known about the extent of the abuse afterwards. I don’t know. Shit’s vague and I have a hard time imagining Miles actually saying anything. 

Also as mentioned before she has certain expectations from Miles and I think that hinders their relationship. He clearly likes her, but he distances himself. He has expectations of her as well, which causes him to look like a spoiled rich brat but I think shows more of how Quint’s influence is still affecting Miles. Everyone points to the quote about horses being strong animals and how you have to control it. And that’s valid. Y'all are right but thinking back to Ms. Grose’s statement of younger Miles, she seems sad. 

Now maybe I’m just talking out of my ass but it leads me to believe that Miles used to be kinder to her. Maybe he was nicer to her once and over time as Quint’s influence crept in Miles distanced himself. Ms. Grose may at first assumed it was due to the accident but after she found out about Quint her actions may have manifested due to guilt. 

Quint likely was trying to isolate Miles, many abusers do. Ms. Grose may have been the first person and eventually he would have moved on to Flora but died before he had the chance. I don’t know. I also don’t know if Miles has any anger or lost of trust in Ms. Grose but it could also be a subconscious factor, and could be adding to the wedge. 

TW/// talk of sexual abuse, not graphic.

I will admit I went Into the theater with the wrong mindset, I went into it with the, "haha Finns Playing another gay kid", and Immediately went searching for how Miles would fit that narrative.

When Flora mentions how the Sweater Miles is wearing is "his sweater" (in refrence to somone else), and at this point we know that Miles was getting drunk with "that pervert" (-Miss Jessels journal) I immediately thought, "ah yes, Miles was with an older man". And that thought was almost immediately supported by the call Kate had received by Miles' school on how he had gotten suspended. How Miles and Kate stare at eachother, and how she blatantly lies to everyone on what the call was about, supported my theory of the school is suspending miles for being gay, and Kate is trying not to out Miles. (note: I thought Kate and Rose where lesbians, I thought I heard Miles and Flora saying "Kate and her girlfriend sitting on a tree" when they where playing pattycake)

This theory was shut down by around mid movie.

For Miles' other behavior, I just thought the ghost of Quinton possesed him and was living through him.

Now that I've looked through Tumblr.

I can conclude that 1000% Miles was in one way or another, being sexualy abused by Quintin.

He’s calm and always in control when he’s around her. He doesn’t really let her see him upset or even really emotional except on one notable occasion that I can think of, the disastrous attempt at Flora leaving. He is constantly looking back as they near the gate, always gauging her emotional responses, and only gets visibly angry when Flora is hysterical, and Kate doesn’t seem to be listening. Even then he calmly lets Flora climb over him in order to get out of the car, and then directs his anger at Kate.

The only person Miles shows any emotional intelligence for really is Flora. She sees him as an authority figure and that must be stressful for Miles. As someone else pointed out, both Miles and Flora say “Bad dreams?” to Kate the same way and further pointed out that Flora may have picked it up from Miles. He’s become her emotional support while he’s also dealing with massive amounts of emotional turmoil. Miles has become a parental figure to her. And while they both rely on each other, Flora is the younger of the two and therefore leans on Miles more especially because Miles can’t tell her about what’s happened with Quint. 

Obviously that is not Flora’s fault in any way, but it does put strain on Miles, which he never shows Flora. They’re two kids trying their best in a really fucked up situation. This strain may be adding to the anger Miles is exhibiting though. I know anger can be and is a sign of abuse but I don’t want to discount the external factors that could be adding to the environment. In any case we never see him direct any sort of anger at Flora, which is an important note.

I will say though I do believe Miles is using her as an emotional counterbalance as well. He may not be able to tell her much but he clearly enjoys spending time with her. He doesn’t show that anything is wrong, in fact their interactions are downright normal in their manner. It’s one of the only normal things portrayed in the movie. I would say they have a near sunny disposition. It’s really the only time we see Miles at ease. I think it’s not a stretch to say he’s genuinely happy. So the only time Miles is having normal, healthy interactions is with Flora. 

I don’t mean to underscore Ms. Grose but it’s clear she has expectations of Miles. She clearly believes in the class system and that may hinder their relationship. Plus we don’t know if Miles has any lingering anger or lost trust about the situation with Quint but if he does he may not necessarily be aware of it. I don’t know. I do have more thoughts on Ms. Grose but that’s another post. And obviously Miles doesn’t trust Kate. 

He directs a lot of anger and visible mistrust at her. There is an interesting part to note though. When they’re in the stables after they tried to leave, Kate tries to talk to Flora and Miles tells her to leave Flora alone. When Kate takes a step forward Miles physically moves between her and Flora. Which is interesting to note as well as what happens afterwards. Miles tells her to leave like “everyone else does” but when Kates says she will there’s this split second of surprise on Miles’ face. What that means is up to your interpretation. But once again we see Miles becoming Flora’s sort of knight in shining armour.

Tw// mention of sexual abuse

During the The Turning we see that the only thing Miles wears is sweaters, and I have a theory on why. Now the type of sweaters he wears are chunky knit sweaters and cable knit sweaters, both types are an odd texture, and I think he wears odd textures to counteract dissociation. And if you consider the fact that Miles did get sexually abused by Quint, you will agree that Miles deals with the symptioms of PTSD. One symtpiom of PTSD is dissociation, In the scene where Kate enters Miles room to give him the CD she bought, we see Miles staring out a window with a blank expression, this is where I believe he was dissociating. One way to deal with dissociation is with odd textures, so in order for Miles to be mentally there to protect Flora he wears odd textures.