Saving this post to show my boss who I told the AI flier makes us look lazy and ignorant, and offered to hand draw one. She still printed tons of ai fliers and I'm tempted to make a better one just because it annoys me so much.
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On the subject of "new elements semi-accidentally creating potential inconsistencies" in SW, I think that the Separatists in the prequels would have had a cultural impact that would have carried over more into the OT era, specifically their name.
Palpatine gained his power by (secretly creating and controlling and) really pushing the threat of the Separatists. Anyone who balked at the kind of control Palpatine was taking would have been accused of having "anti-republican / separatist politics" and would have suffered for it, and I don't think that kind of propaganda goes away overnight. And to hold his Empire together afterwards, it's important to continue demonizing anyone advocating for independence from the Empire.
Under the Empire, in SW stories, all anti-Imperials tend to be called "rebels" because that's what they are, but also because we're used to calling them that thanks to the OT. In-universe, within the Empire, thanks to the prequels and associated media, a lot of Imperial Core citizens should probably also regard the Rebel Alliance as "separatists" because the term is already culturally synonymous with dangerous radicals, traitors, rebels, terrorists, warmongers, and so on. The original group of Separatists are either dead or have been absorbed back into the Empire, yes, but I think that the political term as a weapon should probably still be around.
Child Leia Organa was probably called a separatist by one of her peers for expressing any support for independence. There are probably insufferable in-universe debates about whether or not having "separatist politics" means you endorse the monstrous actions of the CIS, and whether or not the political identity can be reformed.
Meanwhile, all that said, isolated people like Owen and Beru Lars, who have little personal experience with the Republic and none with anything the CIS did, might still privately think of themselves as "separatists / anti-republicans" of a sort because to them that maybe just means the Empire ought to leave their planet alone. As Outer Rim people, they might have been getting more Separatist propaganda than Republican, if they got much of anything. In their view, the Republic became a damn Empire, so maybe those Separatist folks were kind of right, actually?
Anyway, I'm imagining the aftermath of "A New Hope" in which Leia is trying to talk to Luke about wider galactic politics, and this Outer Rim farmboy who just blew up the Death Star says something like, "Well, I originally wanted to join the Imperial Academy just to follow my friends and get off Tatooine, but politically, I guess that me and my family have always been pretty separatist."
#Leia (raised by government leaders who lived through the fall of the Republic): “I am anti-Imperial and therefore I am a Republican.”#Luke (raised by Outer Rim moisture farmers under the Hutts): “I am anti-Imperial and therefore I am a Separatist.”#Han Solo (driving): “Yeah yeah we're all wanted criminals. Can you two SHUT UP back there?!” (X)
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if anything is going to move me to watch the clone wars it's finding out there's a goddamn star wars version of picasso's gernika painting. i am going to lose my mind. what the fuck could this possibly mean in the context of star wars
like look at this thing. what the fuck is this supposed to mean
this is based on a picasso painting called guernica:
and i am absolutely obsessed with what symbols they chose to keep
okay, so, the context of the painting itself is important:
the spanish civil war (1936-1939) is SUPER complicated but the two sides were basically the spanish republic (current government at the time; took over after the king abdicated) and the spanish nationalists (wanted to return spain to more "traditionalist" values; led by Franco and allied with fascist Germany & Italy)
a german & italian airforce bombed a small town in basque country (northern spain) called gernika in order to help the nationalists. over 100 people died and massive amounts of damage were down to buildings. most of the men were off fighting so most of the victims were women and children.
(gernika is the basque name of the town and what i'll be using going forward. guernica is the spanish name and what the painting is generally called in english)
the republic commissioned picasso (who was living in paris) to make a painting that both paid homage to the victims and rally the rest of the world to sympathize with spain's current plight
the painting was first shown at some.... international convention in paris & became one of the most important paintings of the 20th century
what we see in the star wars version (yes i am AWARE the person who made the SW version likely did not put as much thought into it besides possibly "make anti-war art" as I am about to, but massively over-reading things IS THE POINT OF FANDOM):
i don't know what the history of the mandalorians is but this mural is in the home of whoever the heck governor pre vizsla is
the lightbulb has been replaced by a whole-ass mandalorian. the english wikipedia article says the lightbulb represents "the sun" but every spanish language source i've consulted (which isn't a LOT but it's more than two and includes my spanish art history professor) says that the lightbulb represents scientific/technology advancement and also how that advancement aids the massive destruction of modern warfare. This interpretation might be more common among Spanish speakers because the spanish words for lightbulb (bombilla) and bomb (bomba) are related.
WHAT DOES THIS MEAN
also note that the sword the mandalorian has looks like a scythe w/ the cloud. nice
also i think it's interesting that the mandalorian is haloed. "but it doesn't make sense to use christian iconography in star wars" you may be thinking, but the character in the bottom left is "mother with dead child" and is widely thought to be an example of pietĂ , or the virgin mary mourning christ's body after he's been taken off the cross. what does THAT mean in the context of star wars
if we switch over the the character on the right, THAT is clearly supposed to be "woman with lamp" (it looks like a candle). this woman is thought by many to be the spanish republic, bearing witness & casting light on the atrocities of war. this the SW version she has a blaster instead of a lamp. is this.... the galactic republic......? the mandalorian is blocking her bullets. she's also very much more like GRR than the original
???
EDIT: okay actually that could be "kneeling woman," based on positioning. however kneeling woman is clearly injured and in pain and probably a representation of seneless cruelty, and blaster woman is..... uh. well anyway this might be interesting in how the SW artist switched up the symbolism. idk i like "SHE IS THE GALACTIC REPUBLIC" but also i have no idea what that means in the context of whatever the is happening in TCW
the character at the bottom of the SW painting is obviously supposed to be a jedi. it's less obviously something directly from the original gernika, but i'm assuming based on the positioning and the lightsaber, this is meant to be SW-version "dead soldier." the symbolism of this dude is less clear to me, but i think it's interesting to note that in the original his sword is broken with a little flower growing out of it, while this jedi just.... dropped theirs lol. their hand DOES look like it has the squiggles from dead soldier's hand, which may or may not be representative of the stigmata of christ. hooray
the background on the left side, i think, is probably just meant to cue where this is all going down (city skyline/double moon/there's a space ship).... i don't THINK the space ship is meant to be a star wars version of the bull. but what if it was. this is going to keep me up at night
there's a little something something under the republic's gun in the SW mural that looks like part of a squid to me. what does this mean.
i think it's also interesting that in some other example of mandalorian art, non-mandalorians are given a picasso-y cubist style whiel the mandalorians are drawn in more more rigid lines.
i was asked by @phoenixyfriend to reblog it with my tag commentary, I'll clean it up but it's the same format
To clarify, this shot wasn't just in the clone wars (2008) (I looked this up as well) it was also in Rebels, 2014, where I noticed it in Thrawn's office, where he was analyzing the Mandalorian people. I was wrong, it was in Pre Vizsla's home as well.
With that said, I think it represents the sacking of the Jedi Temple on Coruscant and the taking of the darksaber from the Jedi Archives, and I have a few reasons for that.
The skyline resembles that of that of Coruscant from the Jedi temple
The woman in the front has a lightsaber that has fallen from her hands at the mandalorians feet.
Coruscant has the amount of moons required for this sort of depiction, Mandalore only has two. (Coruscant has four total, and I can see three in the piece, the two in the front, and then one more further back, next to the tip of what I presume is the darksaber.
The woman with the blaster isn't depicted as another mandalorian, she's unarmored, and given the period this was made at it could very well be that she's meant to represent the republic, in-universe, working in tandem with the Jedi.
The piece is depicted quite clearly as a moment of triumph for the Mandalorian at the center of the piece, he's domineering and above the fray, with that halo around him. On a meta level of the piece (Guernica) He'd also be the fire consuming the buildings and the women in the painting, as well as the tangle of bodies in the middle, the bull and the horse and the sword and the fire, consuming Coruscant in victory.
The attack on Coruscant happened during the fall of the Old Republic, the Mandalorians were at war with the planet, and as Pre Vizsla explains it, this war allowed a few members of House Vizsla to steal the darksaber from the jedi archives. It was in Thrawn's office because the man studies his subjects through the lens of art, what does the art say about the people, etc.
If we take it as the sacking of coruscant and specifically the jedi temple perhaps there's a level of awareness by the artist (in universe) that they (the mandalorians) attacked Tarre's people— more than likely archivists, padawans, and temple employees, while there was a war going on. It's a less than honorable battle for a supposed holy goal that destroyed many, many people — the jedi and mandos ultimately among them.
And ofc using the real context of the painting— we know it was not an honorable battle, it was bombing and using the guns in the aircrafts to terrorize a city full of mostly women children on a market day, during a civil war when there wouldn't be soldiers around to do anything or help anyone there. And they specifically targeted that city, as it was a cultural heritage site to basque country, important to that resistance to Spanish nationalism/fascism.
And, referring back to Thrawn, knowing the empires ultimate plans for mandalore at that time in the story (rebels taking place shortly before the events of ANH).... “total warfare” is commonly comes up and is depicted in irl through events like depicted in Guernica; so from a meta perspective it may have been chosen to be brought back up not only to discuss the Darksaber, but also to symbolize what was about to be depicted in the mandalorian s1 which was to my knowledge being developed around the same time as rebels Mandalore episodes in real life. (Rebels, Trials of the darksaber came out in 2017, Mandalorian S1 in 2019.)
I believe the location in the painting could be Coruscant, see those three moons (Coruscant has four).
Correct me of I’m wrong, but I thought the Sacking of Coruscant happened in 3653 BBY, while Tarre Vizsla (the creator of the Darksabre) was inducted to the Jedi Order around 1050? I see these two events conflated often enough though, and Tarre Vizsla’s Wookieepedia page also mentions Sacking of the Jedi Temple sometime before 1032 BBY. So it seems to me that there have been two different sacks.
But yeah, I think this could be either the Sacking of Coruscant, which depending on the artist and what they wished to convey, could either glorify war (in line with the Mandalorian Neo-Crusaders who did the sacking), or it could condemn the senseless destruction of war, represented by the Neo-Crusaders and their worship of war itself (in line with the modern New Mandalorian thinking).
Or this could represent the Sacking of the Jedi Temple and stealing the Darksabre, which would make sense if it hung in some Vizla property, as they see the artifact as a symbol of their righteous rule.
Those Kom’rk class fighters in the background would seem to suggest the latter; but they could be anachronistic as well if the painting itself was made later.
Or alternatively, it could represent Mandalore Tarre Vizsla and some unknown battle with the Jedi or more likely the Sith?
okay i tried to write it in the tags but it got too messy and long. HI I STUDY ART HISTORY AND CULTURAL HERITAGE and i have an idea to interpret it but I'm not familiar with mando lore so i need someone to like review it lol
cubism aims (between many things + I'm generalizing because there are obv different phases and interpretations of it by diff artists) to show an object through different times. you can never see a "full" chair - you're always gonna see one side of it. you have to walk around it or move it around to see the entirety of the chair. cubists (or at least some of them) make you see all sides of the chair in one moment. it's a "distortion" of space and time. (obv it's a lot more than this and much more complex but this is what i wanna highlight for my interpretation)
so. cubism in star wars obv didn't arise in the context of 20th century avantguarde. if cubism is the style developed by their culture, maybe this way of dealing with the representation of time depends on how the mandalorians understand and narrate time. (again I'm not familiar with mando lore so tell me if it makes 0 sense) they could, for example, see time as something rather still, instead of moving on a line or a circle like we do: they could believe that in every moment there is everything that there will be and that already has been - everything that is present now was present back then and will be present in the future. in this context that sees "time as a capsule" the sacking represented is not one specific sacking, and debating on which sacking it was would be futile. what's more artistically interesting would be what "core truth" do mandos see and choose to represent on wall that the event stands for. it's more interesting to see what it says about how mandalorians see themselves.
(also just. fyi, this idea of trying to figure out what specifically a painting or an art in general is representing is an idea that is deeply rooted into western's understanding of art - the idea of copying and representing reality, in this sense, is not common in places where the greeks' understanding of art didn't arrive)
in the case of this painting, the center is taken by a giant mandalorian towering even higher than the biggest ecumenopolis in the galaxy, towering over defeated enemies that stand for some of the biggest institutions of their time (jedi and republic). this speaks tons on how mandalorians see themselves - they're literally the biggest in the galaxy, the strongest, the best, the most powerful and fearful. it's interesting though that there isn't a bunch of mandalorians in group that tower over everything but one big mando. this showcases of how tight their sense of community and identity are. they represent themselves as one. they're so connected with each other that they have no problem in representing themselves as just one individual. maybe, but it's a stretch, it's them acting as one big individual that made them so bigger than everyone and everything else.
on the topic of halos and christian imagery, i'd like to point out that in some art history spaces it's believed that halos are an evolution of some tactics to distinguish people (specifically emperors) in big and messy roman narrative reliefs like Trajan's triumphal column or Marcus Aurelius's: they're so full of people it's hard to distinguish the scenes and characters. (I'll put some images to make it clearer)
this was the average complexity of a scene. these columns are like 30 meters high. it'd be impossible to distinguish the emperor from a soldier (even with the original colors) at such distance. so they decided that the emperor would be isolated from the rest of the people, who were "pressed together" - he'd be on the foreground with no one behind him (because if there was, their head would pop out from behind his shoulders) and no one pressed on his sides (or just their successor or someone that needed to be "praised" on the side). this left a sort of void around the emperor, especially the head. as this need to distinguish the emperor from the rest grew (with time, roman emperors became more and more autocratic and at some point they introduced the divine right to reign) this void started to be emphasized with colors like gold (used often for divine or important beings). when christians started to make their art, they "copy-pasted" many of this pagan systems to resematicize them (it must've had a big effect back then) and then, gradually, with time, we started to associate these symbols with christianity. MAYBE mandalorians had a similar story (or have similar story)
like. maybe they have clan or family based art that uses these tactics to highlight the leader that guides the clan (if i remember correctly, sabine's mom was the leader of her clan and pre visla was a sort of head figure for death watch, so, i figured mandos do have quite the sense of hierarchy that they'd highlight in art) and this got translated into identitary paintings to highlight their greatness even further.
TUMBLR POSTED IT WITHOUT THE LAST TWO PARAGRAPHS so I'll add them here.
i wanted to add, also, that it's possible that the painting was re-painted multiple times. it's implied in canon by how sabine talks to thrawn that she doesn't agree with his approach to art (very western, art gets preserved in a museum and analyzed from "afar", while sabine seemed to condemn it because she views art as having a more active role, and interacts with it more freely). this way, anachronisms and contradictions could be explained: for example, the signature vehicles could've been added much later than the original painting because the older fighters weren't as easily recognized or understood by the contemporary mandos for what they were and what they meant, or because they were used in the last sacking so it made sense to have them to make the picture more easy to read. OR, another example, the strange figures of the dying people and the pietĂ reference in particular could've been an anti-war addiction of the "pacifist mandalorians", while the big scary mando was painted in their warrior times.
in the other paragraph that got deleted, i explained why i think that it must've probably been the traditional artstyle. the wookiepedia page saying that "mandalorian cubism came back around the clone wars era". it could be cool to interpret it as the sign of how the mandalorians of that era were switching back to their warrior roots (death watch etc) while at the same time, by being the traditional artstyle, it's also entirely normal and possible that satine got herself a portrait in that style without viewing it as the artstyle of the violent side of mandalore she didn't like. she just thought it's tradition. what I'd be most interested in, though, is when and why did that "art nouveau/art deco" style of architecture (like. main hall of the palace) and style in general (satine's iconic dresses) took off. is that their version of avantguardism/modern art?
OH BTW I LOVE THAT META INTERPRETATION @nightfall-1409 about it being used to foreshadow the empire's plan. it's genius really, it makes total sense (i mean i love every take on this reblog chain but i would've never thought about that so it's cool to know!!)
Re: halos, for Mandalorians, the ruling council of past Mand’alore are conceptualised as stars—literally, the Ka’ra. And doesn’t that style of halo look like it could be a star? Perhaps it signifies a Mand’alor (or another similarly important historical figure)?
also just. fyi, this idea of trying to figure out what specifically a painting or an art in general is representing is an idea that is deeply rooted into western's understanding of art - the idea of copying and representing reality, in this sense, is not common in places where the greeks' understanding of art didn't arrive
Is it not? I had the impression that in many cultures that were either pre-greek or had no contact with the Greeks, there are monuments depicting the military victories of the rulers who commissioned them, though of course that’s propaganda rather than factual reporting. But I don’t know enough about art history to assess whether the idea that these monuments depict *specific* historical battles is a later western interpretation rather than the original intent of those who built and commissioned them. TIL I guess!
Re: the time issue - Mando'a also is a language with rather blurred tense distinctions. It does have past and future markers, but they can be left off, and it definitely doesn't have anywhere near the strict broken-down-in-detail tense chronology English does. Sooo. That might be something? It's a chicken and egg sort of question to consider whether their perception of time influences their language or vice versa, I suspect, but it's super interesting worldbuilding to connect it to their art!
OH! And what I also find super interesting, and have no idea how to interpret, is that the Mandalorian in the painting is wearing a cloak that completely covers up most of their armour. It's really far more reminiscent of the Emperor's Red / Royal Guard (these guys) than how Mandalorians are usually depicted! I'm not well-versed in all the lore that is out there either, but I'm currently not aware of a historical Mando figure that dressed that way - even the Ultimate with his glorious cloak had it open in the front revealing his armour. It almost seems to me as if the concealment of the armour also has to be saying something.
P.S. And vice versa it puts an interesting spin on Palpatine choosing to have his guards dress that way if it does have a historical Mandalorian significance of some kind. Like it's almost a willful cultural appropriation maybe (which would be fun for my own fic-writing purposes).
listen, sometimes it's more powerful for a fictional relationship to be a friendship precisely because friendship is devalued in comparison to romance. anyone can sacrifice themself for the love of their life. but for a friend? if anything, that kind of devotion can be even more moving than if the relationship is romantic. there's a real dramatic power to prioritising friendship in your narratives sometimes.
Uh. I think Jesus had something to say about exactly that scenario... Well, not in relation to fiction, but, you know, now I think about it it makes the whole "friendship is devalued" thing even more puzzling.
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getting scambot messages from random accounts that clearly used to be normal active blogs is sad enough. you know that there used to be a real person on that blog until they were tricked into handing their password to the digital fae.
but it's an entirely new level of tragic when somebody you've actually spoken to gets turned into a bot account. it's like peeking at a zombie apocalypse through the window and realizing one of the shambling corpses was your friend.
and then the zombie catches sight of you, lurches up to your window, and shouts through the glass that they accidentally reported your account to tumblr and you'll be deactivated unless you click this link.
RIP to the blog that used to DM me to tell me they liked my new chapters. Their last known words spoken before being turned, 17 hours ago: "Ggs!" They were praising someone's deadlift.
the message they tried to get me with is probably the same message that got them, so for anybody who hasn't already been warned about the signs of a zombie account:
if you get something like this ↑ they're gonna follow up by instructing you to contact tumblr support on discord and give you contact info; or they're gonna link a website that looks sort of like tumblr support and say you have to email them; or any variety of "you must now contact tumblr, here is how you contact tumblr."
whatever they send you, it Does Not lead to tumblr. it leads to the master zombie that bit them and inducted them into the ranks of the undead, and will bite you the second they have your email and password. i might be confusing zombies and vampires. anyway,
it's easier to fall for these messages because the blog doesn't LOOK like a bot blog, because it ISN'T a bot blog. it's a normal person's blog that got accessed by a bot, meaning the blog's content CLEARLY looks like a real active user when you click on it. and yes—it might even be a blog you already know. sometimes bots like this go down a blog's DMs or reblogs and message people they've previously interacted with.
they got one of my treasured followers, and they can get you too. don't fall for their tricks. know the signs.
You can see Luke makes a hash of this greeting, and the Princess is hesitant to do anything until he supplies their personal relevant link: that he’s here with Ben Kenobi.
this is what I mean when I say the Victorians understood situational clothing
because this was their working apparel
but sometimes you see picture combinations like this:
they did mostly wear more conventional clothing outside work hours! you probably wouldn't look at the picture on the right and assume that was a girl who wore trousers and worked at a coal mine, but it was! they did understand "hey a hoop skirt dress doesn't work for every function and adjust for that!"
almost like they were...human beings with human intelligence and flexible thinking! wow!
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If I were a murderer, and I'd meticulously planned a murder, and then I turned up at the place to do the murder and found that world-famous-murder-solver Hercule Poirot was also there, I would simply not do the murder.
i do not “delete sentences” when they start “hindering the plot” i COPY PASTE THEM into a SEPARATE DOC made just for keeping all my USELESS LINES that i will also NEVER USE so therefore i should JUST DELETE THEM but i DONT because id FEEL BAD if i did