Margot

Also he only sexually assaulted her twice? Once immediately after they broke up and later in the boiler room. Unless you count the first time as twice since she broke the kiss, idk.

Chansaw is 100% toxic. In the movie it’s slightly more balanced thanks to the implied passage of time but they still spent the whole day annoying each other. But in the musical? Blatant power imbalance. 3 weeks is nothing. But people seem to think just because it’s gay it’s okay because straight stinky (nice bi erasure there!). Uh, no. I’m queer and I say no. The whole entire plot wouldn’t happen if Chandler wasn’t an irredeemable cunt. “But nooo actually she’s not because she’s just a sad little neglected closet gay whose dada neglects her and wbo doesn’t know how to express her feefees!! Meanwhile JD is the ultimate irredeemable sociopath psychopath because he’s just the worst!”

Ignoring the fact that that’s the complete opposite of what the sources have shown us, but wow nice double standards you have there! And JD’s tragic backstory doesn’t excuse him from being a huge dick either, so I don’t know how they think it’d excuse Chandler. Is it because she’s hot? JD’s hot. Is it because she’s girl? What does that have to do with it? Oh, because you’re girl? I’m girl too, and I don’t think that’s okay! Hmmmm.

WHOOO SAID KURT AND RAM ASSAULTED VERONICA LMAOO???? that’s fucking crazy bc if they want to make a point about them sexually assaulting someone… guys… guess what… Mac is RIGHT HERE!!!!! i realise they cut the pasture scene in the musical and most of the fans are too young to have seen the movie but STILL. especially bc they kept some of those elements with duke in big fun and the beginning of blue before she gets in the car

Heather M and Ram is actually pretty dubious because if we want to talk rape... he's drunk. He cannot consent. If the genders were reversed, people would consider it pretty clear-cut. The only people who can consent were the girls, who were sober, and while Veronica clearly said no and actually managed to leave, we don't know if McNamara said yes. There's also the fact that teens have a different idea of what counts as consent. A 16yo seeing a college guy sees herself as "cool" and "mature" (Chandler), but an adult sees her as being groomed.

The musical fucked up by making the double-date scene into something it wasn't, and their effort to rectify it was not only a clear attempt to pacify a loud crowd but they actually made it worse. Replacing Blue, which is closer to what happened in the movie, with You're Welcome, where the comedic jock duo are suddenly MORE threatening when they're drunk as fucking skunks was... a choice. Kurt and Ram couldn't even fist-bump in the movie and Veronica got away clean by just hopping a fence but sure, they're totally capable of being huge threats now that their physical mental facilities are compromised!

As dark brooding and unbelievably sexy as JD is, we're not supposed to agree with him that the murders are justified. The whole point is that the killings are entirely disproportionate, murder is never the answer, you know, givens. That's why Veronica doesn't embrace the Bonnie and Clyde thing. By changing McNamara's motive for inviting Veronica out, they made the focus on the scene about the date rape (because they took that part out of the Remington party by taking out the Remington party) and set people off to something that wasn't all that important in the narrative. While some of it is due to the times (sexual misconduct wasn't as big an issue in the 80s as it is today), it just... wasn't about that. Also the inclusion of Duke is really weird and I'm two minds about that. The point is they just needed to get Veronica there... so why didn't they just do it like in the movie??

So the musical makes a mountain out of a molehill for one issue which wasn't all that important, and ignores a hot button issue they also created and keep perpetuating: that being making Duke objectively worse than her movie counterpart and then exclusively casting POC to play her. They keep adding color into it but then ignore the implications of it (and the one time they did acknowledge it, it was a fucking joke). They could've given Duke so much depth with just the implication she's doing this due to internalized racism, but they didn't do anything with that. I get this musical was made by two white guys so disappointed but not surprised, but still. But I digress. Kind of.

I bet they'd have that race conversation if Veronica was POC and JD was white. They already changed so much, why not? There'd be some kind of commentary on the white savior trope since JD only does what he does out of love for Veronica, and it'd add another layer as to why Duke goes after Veronica for more than just "she's trying to usurp me as the third most popular girl in school!" because colorism. I'm willing to bet that's why there's not been a POC Veronica. There's been a female JD, a black/brown/even Asian Mac (cuz yellow Heather, lawl get it?), and even a black Martha. But nah, the only thing Veronica got was that she was bigger... but she's still white.

I'm so sorry for rambling lol.

Somewhere along the way "fiction is not reality" and "fiction does affect reality but not 1:1" got conflated into "fiction does not affect reality" for antis and it's really fucking weird how bad the reading comprehension is. I love JD, but I don't have the urge to murder people who are mean to my girlfriend, feed the bitchy girl I hate drano, or even build a goddamn bomb. Though I do think some of the fans who idolize Chandler just want to bully people (because I've had personal experience with people like that, unfortunately) but hide behind a moral high ground. That's why they're so adamant Chandler's just a poor neglected closet lesbian who's just mean because she's scared and doesn't know how to express herself to the point of arguing their headcanon is canon - it's such projection it's unhinged. And it's especially jarring because the whole appeal of Chandler is that she completely owns the fact that she's a mythic cunt. There's no Freudian excuse, she just is what she is, entirely unapologetically, says shit with her whole chest and she means every word. People like her with her kind of confidence exist. Giving her an uwu tragic backstory not only takes away the appeal but weakens her.

you bring up a lot of interesting points that i don’t necessarily agree with but are intriguing nonetheless lol. that’s an interesting viewpoint but i can’t say i agree; being drunk isn’t the same as being intoxicated and they seem to be aware of themselves enough to go do a thing they enjoy doing and happen to do often. that and also the actors and directors themselves have stated outright that mac is the one being raped and that’s the intention of the scene. i also just like it and think it’s funny lol

tbh i LOVE you’re welcome so so much, it’s the only part of that production and cast recording that i like, i enjoy both of them because they have different accuracies to the scene but I also haven’t actually SEEN you’re welcome ive only ever seen blue. i just like you’re welcome more mostly for personal reasons lmao it’s cathartic to listen to after recent events. the inclusion of duke in both the party and the double date is CRAZY and i will never ever get why on earth they did that. exactly what you said lol why they entirely changed the motive and didn’t just do it the same way the scene was built up in the movie is so very strange.

the poc duke thing is not something i noticed until you brought it up (since i don’t like the musical very much so i havent seen any productions other than the one with Barrett) and now that i actively think about it when i see the musical productions you are entirely correct that is SO weird. i don’t even see what the point is if there implication like you said doesn’t exist. i don’t know how id feel about it if it did though since it’s still very divergent from her original motives and i think it muddies her character. but heathers the musical does modernise the movie a lot so perhaps it would’ve been more appropriate. the asian Mac thing is something that i was subconsciously VERY aware of the possibility and i am just. floored that someone actually did that

thé fiction does not affect reality thing is SO true i dont know WHERE it got misconstrued that everyone thinks we are just saying fiction doesn’t affect reality AT ALL. because that’s ludicrous and no one who is mentally well would say that lmao. it’s nuanced and dependent on a lot of things and people don’t seem to understand that. i joke to my family members ‘be careful of any opaque mugs i give you’ constantly when they say something that jokingly offends me but i can’t imagine anyone actually doing that because they saw heathers lol.

Also he only sexually assaulted her twice? Once immediately after they broke up and later in the boiler room. Unless you count the first time as twice since she broke the kiss, idk.

Chansaw is 100% toxic. In the movie it’s slightly more balanced thanks to the implied passage of time but they still spent the whole day annoying each other. But in the musical? Blatant power imbalance. 3 weeks is nothing. But people seem to think just because it’s gay it’s okay because straight stinky (nice bi erasure there!). Uh, no. I’m queer and I say no. The whole entire plot wouldn’t happen if Chandler wasn’t an irredeemable cunt. “But nooo actually she’s not because she’s just a sad little neglected closet gay whose dada neglects her and wbo doesn’t know how to express her feefees!! Meanwhile JD is the ultimate irredeemable sociopath psychopath because he’s just the worst!”

Ignoring the fact that that’s the complete opposite of what the sources have shown us, but wow nice double standards you have there! And JD’s tragic backstory doesn’t excuse him from being a huge dick either, so I don’t know how they think it’d excuse Chandler. Is it because she’s hot? JD’s hot. Is it because she’s girl? What does that have to do with it? Oh, because you’re girl? I’m girl too, and I don’t think that’s okay! Hmmmm.

WHOOO SAID KURT AND RAM ASSAULTED VERONICA LMAOO???? that’s fucking crazy bc if they want to make a point about them sexually assaulting someone… guys… guess what… Mac is RIGHT HERE!!!!! i realise they cut the pasture scene in the musical and most of the fans are too young to have seen the movie but STILL. especially bc they kept some of those elements with duke in big fun and the beginning of blue before she gets in the car